Maximus Decimus

There aren't enough actual rugby threads on this forum so on the eve on the playoffs I thought I'd start a proper one. It's probably the hardest to call season I can remember. Of the contenders, The team that are league leaders haven't won a competition since 2002. St Helens don't seem to be quite as on fire as they have been in previous seasons. The team in 3rd have just emphatically won the Cup but have a voodoo against saints. Current champions Leeds have only managed 4th and got outclassed in the Cup final against Wire. My heart wants Wigan to win but I have a feeling about Wire at the moment. They have the form and now have performed in 2 big finals. I think the Saints voodoo is a matter of time and I actually think it will go tomorrow. Wigan, whilst the most consistent still don't seem to have the beating of the other big sides.

You clearly haven't understood the point. A cap of 300k means that almost all clubs can make it. If you're spending the same as almost all the other clubs, how exactly are you supposed to show your superiority? It's a lottery based on which coach can get the best out of his 300k. Theoretically Wigan or Leeds could get relegated to the Championship and would stand no better chance of winning it on the pitch than Halifax would. People who are calling for a return to P&R are arguing for something that we've never had before. P&R with a low enough salary cap that nearly all if not all the teams can spend up to it. This would mean that teams couldn't show their superiority as a club which is effectively Communism, reducing everybody to the same level. If we went back to the normal system where there was room in the salary cap for difference then Widnes would inevitably finish higher in the league as we have the resources and the money to make a difference. This is what used to happen almost all the time with P&R.

No other sport has the problems of RL. We have a League with an average of 9,000 against one with an average of 2,000. The drop is massive. Relegation can mean the end of a club. We also don't have enough clubs viable in the lower divisions to compete in Super League. Whether or not the principle is right, you cannot promote a team like Batley, Dewsbury or Hunslet. Outside of Football, where clubs go from a League averaging about 30,000 to one averaging about 20,000, what other major professional UK sports have P&R? Oh yeh Rugby Union...

Lobby does have some points when he talks about the troubles that Championship clubs face. I do think he has a point when he talks about Championship fans lack of interest. However he doesn't have the answers, not even close. Promotion and relegation in it's last form was just as bad as this. People forget but it had been a shambles for almost 10 years. 1999 - Hunslet (no promotion) 2000 - Dewsbury (no promotion) 2001 - Widnes. Performed well year after and replaced Huddersfield. 2002 - Huddersfield, went year undefeated. Replaced Salford. 2003 - Salford, promoted comfortably. Halifax relegated after financial difficulty. 2004 - Leigh, replaced Castleford. 2005 - Castleford promoted, replaced Leigh after first season shambles. Widnes relegated to make way for Catalans. 2006 - Hull KR promoted, replaced Castleford. 2007 - Castleford replaced Salford. 2008 - Salford promoted through licensing but win Grand Final anyway. So in 7 attempts where relegation occured, the relegated team came straight back up in 5 of the years. They usually had almost no competition. My memory of this period was that it was usually 2 clubs fighting it out way ahead of everybody else, with 1 usually quite comfortably better than the other. Nowadays it is much closer. Widnes get a lot of criticism for finishing 5th and being favourites for promotion but this is largely because of a low salary cap. The result has been a far more competitive Championship that is better quality. The situation is that if we brought back straight P & R the current salary cap would be massively unfair on a team like Widnes and would enable somebody with a relatively small amount of money to buy their way into Super League. This is not good for the game either. With the cap at

I don't take this board seriously at all. It's easy to read something how you want to read it. Now going on prolonged rants and posting half in capitals and emoticons would give the impression that you do take the board seriously. Olive branch taken.

A quote from one of your own fans on another forum, It appears it was news to you Mick. That's why you've totally lost it to the extent of getting banned from forums, starting childish provocative threads about Widnes since it became clear that Barrow didn't have a chance any more. Grow up or get help.

How exactly are you realists?

It's only perceived arrogance that comes from your own jealousy. Widnes are clearly the best positioned Championship club to come up to Super League, that's not arrogance but fact. Fans of other Championship clubs try to make out like this isn't the case and Widnes fans point out where they are wrong. You're the perfect example, you spent months trying to appear genuine yet all the time trying to undermine Widnes' position by spreading lies about the club even though they were proven wrong. When it became obvious that Widnes were in a much better position than your own club you totally lost the plot, as evidenced by your original post here. You're jealous of Widnes' position and that's the real reason you hate us.

I suspect they would a la Toulouse and Leigh last year.

It's nonsense that's why. Toulouse aren't coming up, I'll guarantee you of that. If Widnes get the decision in March then players will be playing for Super League contracts. We have been playing many youngsters throughout the last year, so there will probably be quite a lot getting SL contracts and certainly playing for them. Aside from that the prospect of SL might mean that Widnes find recruitment easier in this off season. If you look at the season in that way, far more than 40 games are dead rubbers. How about all those games that involve clubs that aren't going to get relegated but aren't in danger of threatening the playoffs?

It's a sad fact that these games will almost definitely have lower crowds than their regular Super League games. Even though they are mouthwatering clashes with some of them big derbies, the evidence from previous seasons suggests that they will be distinctly average crowds. Even Saints Wigan last year didn't sellout. They should find a way to include them in season tickets because it's detrimental to the playoffs to see lower crowds than usual.

When was the last post that you didn't mention the words 'sugar daddy?' This post is the usual nonsense and still people don't quite get that's it's not all about on the pitch any more. If it was we would have a totally different situation. Widnes have played by the rules and are far ahead in all aspects except for on the pitch. We saved our worst performance in over 4 years for yesterday. That's no reason to say we should suddenly be in Super League.

Despite Wigan winning the league I think most people still think that the jury is out on them when it comes to big games. Personally and I hate to say it, but I think Wire are the strongest team on their day and have the confidence of a victory at Wigan and battering the current champions in the Challenge Cup.

It does have a charm in the same way that most of the old stadia do, but it's only for reasons of nostalgia. It's like going to the rugby used to be. It's nice once in a while, but my over-riding feeling coming into the ground was that it showed exactly why we have licensing criteria in the first place. The place and places like it couldn't and shouldn't be hosting top level modern RL. The views are rubbish, the facilities are poor and it makes it difficult to bring new fans to the sport.

I think the club are too honest. Most people I was with couldn't get over how cheap the food was, even if the quality's not the best.

Today was my first visit to Craven Park and it's safe to say it's nowhere near Super League standard, so that is a massive barrier. That said if they did have a better stadium they probably have potential because that stadium must stop a lot of fans from coming.

Barrow were good today. Started like they looked low on confidence though. As soon as Widnes' ineptitude gave them a couple of tries they were off and we probably did well to keep them to 38 in the end. I got the feeling had we scored first Barrow's heads might have dropped but we wouldn't have scored in 2 games today. Disappointed but hey thanks to licensing it's not the end of the world, in fact it doesn't matter much at all! Thanks RFL for taking the highs and the lows out the game!

How predictable from Barrow's number one mental case. We're a charitible bunch in Widnes and thought we'd give Barrow their confidence back, which we did with some style. Oh and Rooney did play. Talking of dreaming, if you think that stadiums ever getting anywhere near SL you're living in a dreamworld. It makes Wakey look like Old Trafford.

I think the ref got it right. In most circumstances 2 yellows would have sufficed but I think the fact that Bailey wasn't fighting back and Radford looked like he had no desire to stop left the referee with no choice. I'm not condoning Bailey for one second, and a fight is a fight but beating somebody up is bordering on assault.

Ah right I thought Hull-Leeds was a straight fight for 4th vs 5th.

Why do 5th play 7th and 6th play 8th? Surely this means that finishing 6th is better than 5th?

Looking at another thread I actually feel quite guilty. We've torn whole families and communities apart by bringing our sport to this North Welsh enclave. The question of whether to go follow the Crusaders to Huddersfield or to stay loyal to Wrexham who are playing at same time, could cause a civil war in Wrexham.

I see what you're saying but in my opinion there is a difference. A fight is one thing and whilst what Bailey did was bad, he was trying to get him off so that he could get up. Radford was hitting somebody who wasn't hitting back. I'm not against fighting in the game and I'm glad we're nowhere near Football where you get sent off for standing within 2 metres of another player, but as a sport we can't condone thuggery like that.