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marklaspalmas

Challenge Cup fixtures.

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I have a couple of Challenge Cup Questions.

From 1993/94 the Challenge Cup was expanded to include a raft of non-league sides. For many years before then, non-league sides in the Challenge Cup seemed to be invited in ad hoc to make up the numbers in the 1st round. However, I know from Featherstone records that from 1896/97 to at least 1920 the Challenge Cup had a number of preliminary rounds of non-league teams leading up to the first round proper with professional clubs in it.

Q1: When did the preliminary rounds stop? Info from facebook group suggests there were preliminary rounds right up to the 1973 split with BARLA.

Q2: Has anybody got/started a list of these games? Obviously all the later records from 1993/94 onwards are available in Rothmans/L'Expess.

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Mark,I have some from pre WW1 and the 1920s only picked them up on a random basis looking for other things.In 1929-30 it was reported there was some 109(from memory) entries including 8 clubs playing out a Welsh qualifying group.

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On 23/05/2020 at 11:05, marklaspalmas said:

I have a couple of Challenge Cup Questions.

From 1993/94 the Challenge Cup was expanded to include a raft of non-league sides. For many years before then, non-league sides in the Challenge Cup seemed to be invited in ad hoc to make up the numbers in the 1st round. However, I know from Featherstone records that from 1896/97 to at least 1920 the Challenge Cup had a number of preliminary rounds of non-league teams leading up to the first round proper with professional clubs in it.

Q1: When did the preliminary rounds stop? Info from facebook group suggests there were preliminary rounds right up to the 1973 split with BARLA.

Q2: Has anybody got/started a list of these games? Obviously all the later records from 1993/94 onwards are available in Rothmans/L'Expess.

Hi Mark.  Didn't know you were after a list of these - I've got 93/4 - 2005(ish).  I've not verified them, so can't vouch for accuracy.  See if you get anything else more comprehensive, but if not, give me a shout.

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3 hours ago, Neil_Ormston said:

Hi Mark.  Didn't know you were after a list of these - I've got 93/4 - 2005(ish).  I've not verified them, so can't vouch for accuracy.  See if you get anything else more comprehensive, but if not, give me a shout.

Yeah, Ive got 1993 onwards, ta.

I'm thinking more 1897 to 1973.

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10 hours ago, daveh said:

Mark,I have some from pre WW1 and the 1920s only picked them up on a random basis looking for other things.In 1929-30 it was reported there was some 109(from memory) entries including 8 clubs playing out a Welsh qualifying group.

That's great. How do you record your stats? In Excel?

 

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1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said:

That's great. How do you record your stats? In Excel?

 

Yes in excel,they are far from complete more a work in progress

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1st Round Amateur clubs participation, I think was restricted to the winners of the major amateur leagues, ie, Humberside, Yorkshire, Pennine, North-West Counties and Cumbria, but how they were chosen I do not know, there may have been a play-off, there may have been a rolling rotation, Wikipedia (yeah, I know!) has a good record of Challenge Cup fixtures going back quite a way, at least to WW2


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On 23/05/2020 at 11:05, marklaspalmas said:

I have a couple of Challenge Cup Questions.

From 1993/94 the Challenge Cup was expanded to include a raft of non-league sides. For many years before then, non-league sides in the Challenge Cup seemed to be invited in ad hoc to make up the numbers in the 1st round. However, I know from Featherstone records that from 1896/97 to at least 1920 the Challenge Cup had a number of preliminary rounds of non-league teams leading up to the first round proper with professional clubs in it.

Q1: When did the preliminary rounds stop? Info from facebook group suggests there were preliminary rounds right up to the 1973 split with BARLA.

Q2: Has anybody got/started a list of these games? Obviously all the later records from 1993/94 onwards are available in Rothmans/L'Expess.

 

4 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

1st Round Amateur clubs participation, I think was restricted to the winners of the major amateur leagues, ie, Humberside, Yorkshire, Pennine, North-West Counties and Cumbria, but how they were chosen I do not know, there may have been a play-off, there may have been a rolling rotation, Wikipedia (yeah, I know!) has a good record of Challenge Cup fixtures going back quite a way, at least to WW2

Yes, there wasn't always designated "Preliminary Rounds" for the Challenge Cup; the qualifiers were often winners of the major amatur competitions either from the previous season or earlier that same one.

ie: The 1979 RL Regal Trophy included the amateur teams of Pilkingtons and West Hull,. who had been the finalists in the previous season's BARLA National Cup, while later the 1980 Challenge Cup saw Ace and Millom who earlier that season had won the BARLA Yorkshire and Lancashire-Cumbria cups respectively.

Wikipedia does have the full list of al the "proper rounds" of the Challenge Cup since it started.  ie: this from 1897 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1897_Challenge_Cup

Just by means of some local information ... The teams in that 1897 tournament not only include Oldham as well as Oldham Juniors, but also Crompton, Lees, Waterhead Hornets and Werneth - all of which were local teams in the Oldham area.

What might be of interest is that there is another thread in the "General RL Forum" under the heading of "Most successful amateur  club in Challenge Cup" (As I type it is the very bottom of page 98 but could soon go onto page 99)

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