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Why did League Express print this?


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On 28/08/2022 at 21:27, Dave T said:

There have been discussions here before about being welcoming to women.  Maybe with content like that and the response to complaints about it then lots of women don't feel the publication and readership is for them. 

Lots of women read League Express but not many women come onto this forum, it seems.

Perhaps you are looking in the wrong direction.

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On 28/08/2022 at 20:30, Dunbar said:

Your last post was a vigorous defence of being accused of using a straw man argument. 

And yet here you seem to acknowledge that your post had no relationship to the actual letter printed or criticism of people who took offence at that letter.

You can't have it both ways.

I'm not trying to. To post a comment on misogyny on a thread about misogyny is, I would have thought, clearly related to the topic under discussion, although it wasn't critical of anyone in particular.

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18 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Lots of women read League Express

That's interesting. What are the stats you have about that?

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

That's interesting. What are the stats you have about that?

Every year we run an annual readers' poll, normally with more than a thousand entries, and around a third of the people who respond are women.

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On 24/08/2022 at 19:37, Jughead said:

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Firstly, an utterly outdated and ridiculous letter but why would you put that to print?

 

On 24/08/2022 at 19:37, Jughead said:

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Firstly, an utterly outdated and ridiculous letter but why would you put that to print?

Firstly they have the right to print what they like within the law. Although that answers the question 'how?' As for 'why'; maybe there weren't many letters in the post bag that week. Maybe they wanted to print something different to the usual dreary stuff about the correspondent's club being robbed, sold down the river, shafted by the RFL/match officials, that the sport is a laughing stock/joke, that something or other is a farce. Maybe they wanted to print something to get a reaction to wake people up from their torpor. Maybe they wanted to be seen to champion different points of view, or even actually challenge different points of view. I'm pretty certain Mr Bagley exists, and I'm pretty certain there are plenty more like him.

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On 24/08/2022 at 19:59, Niels said:

I can't see a problem with the letter because it is a comparative matter of ability.

I follow horse racing where a lot of the women jockeys are better than the men. So for example calling Rachel Blackmore a hero or heroine is justified as she has regularly beaten men. 

Same for Darts, Fallon Sherrock completes with and beats men so she can be compared against them. 

 

being 'heroic' isn't necessarily about being the best in a particular field. It's about overcoming obstacles, making a big or important contribution, contributing but shunning recognition, glory or reward. Women are making a growing and important contribution to rugby league. To get where they are and one hopes they are going to has demanded the overcoming of huge obstacles; the writer of this letter provides us with a service by representing one of them. They have been ignored, shunned, mocked, patronised and more. Competing against men has nothing to do with anything. Women don't compete against men in rugby league so your analogy is meaningless. If you look at what counts for 'heroism' in real life, it rarely if ever relates to being the best at something. 

 

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On 24/08/2022 at 20:11, Jughead said:

When it’s clearly bigoted, unwelcome in this age and offensive, it’s not something that should be published. 

Demeaning the achievements of others based upon their sex is pretty disgraceful and has nothing to do with “cancel culture”. 

have you ever read the letters in the daily mail and the daily express?

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On 24/08/2022 at 20:02, Ragingbull said:

The old chap is just entitled to have his opinion published as you or i. 

Just because it differs to your view doesnt mean it shouldn't be published. 

I hope cancel culture hasnt spread to these forums now

nobody is cancelling anything. They are sharing their opinions, just like Mr Bagley. Please explain what is being 'cancelled'. 

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On 24/08/2022 at 20:55, Number 16 said:

It's quite right that the letter was published. It offers an alternative view. 

For example... what percentage of letters received are actually published? Maybe this filled the pages on a quiet week!

But maybe some of you are demanding the 'Cancel Culture' to infect RLE. Anything you don't agree with shouldn't be aired/published. 

To you bigoted and narrow-minded thinkers, why not write a simple riposte... after all, you have an open goal against an idiot. 

But questioning why something you disagree with was published is extremist. And typically Socialist!

it looks like people are writing their ripostes on this forum. Why do you have a problem with it?

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On 24/08/2022 at 20:59, Niels said:

I don't know the player but I can confidently say she hasnt competed and beaten men, like such as Hollie Doyle and Rachael Blackmore.

I actually don't follow women's rugby league and neither do most of my female friends. 

I sometimes find the constant cheerleading of it by certain posters very patronising and Political. Especially when they hardly had a positive word to say about women on the Political forum. 

I'm one of those cheerleaders. I do it because I want to see the maximum number of people enjoying rugby league as possible, and because I believe in equality. Please tell me how that is political. 

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On 25/08/2022 at 00:12, David Shepherd said:

Might want to read about the origins of Fascism in Italy. Even in Britain, it's roots were in the Labour Party. Labour MP Oswald Mosely being the most (in)famous of that disagreeable bunch.

I have. You are wrong. 

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On 27/08/2022 at 18:21, Martyn Sadler said:

You don't give that impression.

 

I have no interest in or knowledge of nuclear weapons but I know that I'm against them. Does that make my opinion rubbish too?

 

If you began with the phrase "I have no knowledge of" a subject, I would think you were being commendabl

 

 

On 27/08/2022 at 18:21, Martyn Sadler said:

You don't give that impression.

 

I have no interest in or knowledge of nuclear weapons but I know that I'm against them. Does that make my opinion rubbish too?

 

If you began with the phrase "I have no knowledge of" a subject, I would think you were being commendably honest.

 

The letter was perfectly rational and made perfect sense. Mr Bagley doesn't like women's Rugby League and doesn't think that a woman should be included in a series about Rugby League Heroes. He could hardly have expressed himself more clearly or rationally.

The fact that we cover women's Rugby League so extensively shows that we disagree with him. Even the heading we used betrayed that fact.

But was his letter misogynistic because he expressed his dislike of women's Rugby League?

You could certainly interpret it that way and some people have.

But the real misogyny is the idea that women are such weak, fragile creatures that any criticism of them should be censored.

you have no interest or knowledge of nuclear weapons. This means you have never heard of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and what happened there, you have never heard of Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhattan project, the Cold War, the cuban missile crisis, protect and survive, the test ban treaty, Greenham Common, Britain's 'independent' nuclear deterrent, the nuclear winter, Doctor Strangelove and the rest. Aren't you supposed to have been some kind of academic with knowledge of the world?

 

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