88 replies to this topic

[Tommy The C5t]

The game was an absolute cracker with the result in doubt till the hooter.

I'll also give Ian Millward credit for not blaming the referee (unlike the Leigh supporters who were booing and shouting abuse at Hicks as he walked down the tunnel), but for giving credit to the Sheffield attack that really did rampage all over the Leigh right hand side.

Just a shame that the people of Leigh don't support their Rugby League team, poor crowd in a soulless rectangular concrete mess.

2015 it is for Leigh.

[Lobbygobbler]

Well done to Sheffield. Their backs were superior to ours. I hope they go all they way and apply for SL.

Basically that means that Leigh will not be in SL until 2015 unless the RFL (hopefully) changes the system back to P&R with minimum standards

There is summat wrong with a system that condemns second tier clubs to the second tier for another 5 years. That is even longer than a 4th tier club in soccer could make the premiership. A total utter fecking joke :angry

Its worth noting that with a 3 up P&R system, a deserving club like Sheffield would stand a very good chance of going up (which would be great for RL). In this nobhead system they'll not be going up until at least 2015 (which will keep potential fans away)

[West Country Eagle]

Well done to Sheffield. Their backs were superior to ours. I hope they go all they way and apply for SL.

Basically that means that Leigh will not be in SL until 2015 unless the RFL (hopefully) changes the system back to P&R with minimum standards

There is summat wrong with a system that condemns second tier clubs to the second tier for another 5 years. That is even longer than a 4th tier club in soccer could make the premiership. A total utter fecking joke :angry

Its worth noting that with a 3 up P&R system, a deserving club like Sheffield would stand a very good chance of going up (which would be great for RL). In this nobhead system they'll not be going up until at least 2015 (which will keep potential fans away)

This is where we disagree. Sheffield Eagles are nowhere near ready for Super League. They might be in 2015, but they still have a lot to do. The club know this, and are taking steps to work on the areas where they fall down/don't meet criteria. Featherstone have been doing the same.

If Sheffield were promoted to SL in a straight 3 up/3 down scenario, for example, they would struggle badly and get relegated the next season - which would undoubtedly leave them in a much worse state.

The sooner Leigh fans get used to the fact that their club will not be in Super League - and get behind them regardless - the better.

The Championship is a terrific league. Yes, we'd all love to be playing the likes of Wigan, Saints and Leeds every week, but so what if we can't? Support your club regardless of division, and stop with this SL obsession.

[ArmchairRhino]

F*cking love Menzie Yere

[Lobbygobbler]

This is where we disagree. Sheffield Eagles are nowhere near ready for Super League. They might be in 2015, but they still have a lot to do. The club know this, and are taking steps to work on the areas where they fall down/don't meet criteria. Featherstone have been doing the same.

If Sheffield were promoted to SL in a straight 3 up/3 down scenario, for example, they would struggle badly and get relegated the next season - which would undoubtedly leave them in a much worse state.

The sooner Leigh fans get used to the fact that their club will not be in Super League - and get behind them regardless - the better.

The Championship is a terrific league. Yes, we'd all love to be playing the likes of Wigan, Saints and Leeds every week, but so what if we can't? Support your club regardless of division, and stop with this SL obsession.

What condescending ######

Go onto the Leigh messageboard and you'll see how fecked off people are.

We will now go from being a club with around 2-3k support to perhaps 1k (which is roughly what Eagles get)

Do you want all non-SL clubs to be "getting used to the fact that their club will not be in Super League" and getting sub 1k crowds? That is the future my friend until 2015

Do you think that all non-Sl clubs getting sub-1k crowds is good for RL? People are not gobshytes. They will not watch their club in >1k crowds if there is no promotion for 5 years. You'll get the hardy care-in-the-community types, WAGs and other family members but that's about it

[the punt]

What condescending ######

Go onto the Leigh messageboard and you'll see how fecked off people are.

We will now go from being a club with around 2-3k support to perhaps 1k (which is roughly what Eagles get)

Do you want all non-SL clubs to be "getting used to the fact that their club will not be in Super League" and getting sub 1k crowds? That is the future my friend until 2015

Do you think that all non-Sl clubs getting sub-1k crowds is good for RL? People are not gobshytes. They will not watch their club in >1k crowds if there is no promotion for 5 years. You'll get the hardy care-in-the-community types, WAGs and other family members but that's about it

I think that this whole Super League thing has been self perpetuating on the basis that as soon as the Super League grabbed all of the (tv) money and distributed it amongst themselves it made Super League virtually unattainable for everybody else.

The trouble is we don't have a steady trickle down from wealthy clubs to the less well off in the same way that football does, which makes promotion and relegation from and to their Championship meaningful. At the bottom of Super League is a great big cliff down to the Championship, and the only way to resolve this is to distribute money more evenly, but that's never going to happen now so for better or for worse we're stuck with what we have.

That said I've enjoyed some games in the Championship this year as much, at least, as some Super League games, last night's game for one, Leigh v Batley semi final NR Cup and Widnes v Batley NR Cup Final as notable others and I see no reason why Championship clubs can't have a healthy vibrant competition in its own right.

Championship clubs deserve a big pat on the back for maintaining a great competition despite the lack of funds.

As for Leigh Sports Village, I've only been once but I really liked it and I see no reason why Leigh won't increase their crowds even outside SL if matches like the ones mentioned above are produced regularly.

[Lobbygobbler]

I think that this whole Super League thing has been self perpetuating on the basis that as soon as the Super League grabbed all of the (tv) money and distributed it amongst themselves it made Super League virtually unattainable for everybody else.

The trouble is we don't have a steady trickle down from wealthy clubs to the less well off in the same way that football does, which makes promotion and relegation from and to their Championship meaningful. At the bottom of Super League is a great big cliff down to the Championship, and the only way to resolve this is to distribute money more evenly, but that's never going to happen now so for better or for worse we're stuck with what we have.

That said I've enjoyed some games in the Championship this year as much, at least, as some Super League games, last night's game for one, Leigh v Batley semi final NR Cup and Widnes v Batley NR Cup Final as notable others and I see no reason why Championship clubs can't have a healthy vibrant competition in its own right.

Championship clubs deserve a big pat on the back for maintaining a great competition despite the lack of funds.

As for Leigh Sports Village, I've only been once but I really liked it and I see no reason why Leigh won't increase their crowds even outside SL if matches like the ones mentioned above are produced regularly.

Whatever rugby is on show, crowds will decrease next year because there is nothing real to play for. There is no higher level to aspire to the year after. That's why Barrow have fallen apart

[BBR]

All comes down to why you watch RL.

If it is to watch a great game with passion, thrills etc, then you go to the game regardless.

If you watch them to potentially get thrashed in the SL play offs, and lose most weeks to Wigan, Saints etc then the lack of up and down meas you won't go.

If Leigh (or Barrow, Sheffield etc) went up this year, do you honestly think they would stay up? Or cope with relegation and a total squad rebuild?

Up and down was not working. Surely you didn't enjoy the last season you had in SL?

As for me, if Barrow get a proper ground and have the ability to run reserve/youth teams, and are able to get crowds that are not humiliating on TV, then I would love to be in SL. However, right now, there is no point.

In the ideal works, good Championship clubs would get money/support and be able to build. Be interesting to see how Widnes do in season 1 when they go up.

Me, I like to watch the game of RL. I watch every Thu evening game, and would rather watch the great entertainment of the Bristol Sonics every week than see Barrow getting thumped 70-0 every week.

[BBR]

Whatever rugby is on show, crowds will decrease next year because there is nothing real to play for. There is no higher level to aspire to the year after. That's why Barrow have fallen apart

They fell apart for many reasons, not becasue they can't get promoted. If that was the case, why did they not collapse last year?

[Red Willow]

Leigh would have failed to get promoted by the old system as well as they haven't made a Grand final. This is little different. There are no guarnatees they would have manged it under the old system.

Too many fans in the Championship are focused only on SL. Some teams would never get promoted under either system and their fans look forward to some great rugby on offer, Thursdays have deomostrated that.

If Salford go to make way for a promoted club then so be it. It won't stop me watching and will probably mean more games for me.

[Lobbygobbler]

All comes down to why you watch RL.

If it is to watch a great game with passion, thrills etc, then you go to the game regardless.

If you watch them to potentially get thrashed in the SL play offs, and lose most weeks to Wigan, Saints etc then the lack of up and down meas you won't go.

If Leigh (or Barrow, Sheffield etc) went up this year, do you honestly think they would stay up? Or cope with relegation and a total squad rebuild?

Up and down was not working. Surely you didn't enjoy the last season you had in SL?

As for me, if Barrow get a proper ground and have the ability to run reserve/youth teams, and are able to get crowds that are not humiliating on TV, then I would love to be in SL. However, right now, there is no point.

In the ideal works, good Championship clubs would get money/support and be able to build. Be interesting to see how Widnes do in season 1 when they go up.

Me, I like to watch the game of RL. I watch every Thu evening game, and would rather watch the great entertainment of the Bristol Sonics every week than see Barrow getting thumped 70-0 every week.

Yes I far preferred the one year in SL to other 15 out of it

Very few people are like you. It is obvious. If people watched for the "fun of it" there would be huge crowds in the second/third tier. There aren't and they are further declining. Take away the ladder and your left with the bare bones, WAGs - converging to amatuer level crowds. Is that what we want?

I personally watch RL for a number of reasons. But the action purely on the pitch is not what got me into the game. It is a combination of other things too very much including atmosphere (and number of fans). Also pride in the club and the tension of P&R

The co-op championship will be a morgue next year. Less fans will go to home games and less fans will travel. As I said you'll be left with the fans who watch amateur RL , the care-in-the community types and the WAGs. Between 500-1000

[shrek]

Very few people are like you. It is obvious. If people watched for the "fun of it" there would be huge crowds in the second/third tier.

You say that, yet the National Conference pulls in decent crowds, take Wigan St Pats v Leigh Miners, must have been close to a four figure crowd on and a good day had by all. There are plenty out there willing to turn up and watch, the small crowds in the Championship could be down to the cost of attendance? I could have got a ticket to Wembley for less than I've paid to watch Swinton and Rochdale this season.

Obviously you want to have the P&R debate at every opportunity, but never want to discuss the issues around it. For example in your 3 up 3 down scenario how you going to manage the leaps up and down in salary cap from 350k in the championship to 1 million plus in Super League then possibly back down to 350k again 12 months later, its crazy, clubs will be ruined.

[davo99]

If no annual P&R will cause crowds to decline and turn clubs into dust bowls why haven't the vast majority of clubs who have no realistic chance of SL in the near future folded already?

[Keith T]

The licence system and doing away with P & R was said to be to safeguard clubs being promoted and instantly relegated the next season and getting in to serious financial problems. Expansion clubs fast tracked in to SL were given 3 years grace from relegation for them to get established so why don't we use a bit of both again.

Every season promote the Championship Grand Final winners to Super League and give them the same 3 years grace in SL. The bottom club in SL being relegated to the Championship or the second bottom where the newly promoted club finishes bottom.

This would re-establish P & R and at the same time give a club 3 years to establish themselves in SL. Clubs below the current SL set-up don't want any more patronising platitudes from SL clubs and their fans they want to try to be as good, if not better, than some of those clubs safely ensconced in SL.

Now let's hear all the SL fans telling us why this shouldn't happen except the fact that their team may be the one at the bottom of SL at the wrong time!!!

[sallywt]

Memory is a funny thing isn't it and funni;y enough I can't seem to remember Leigh's crowds increasing markedly when they were promoted to SL. You would think if P&R was the big thing some people make it out to be then there would have been a huge increase. Maybe though that's just my memory playing tricks, it was a long time ago after all.

[Tipster Ste]

It was 5 years ago and the crowd average was a little under 5K, not bad for a first season attempt.

No matter how long the franchise system is in place guess what someone will finish bottom of SL and guess what there crowds will decrease. Someone will finish top of the Championship and not go up.

Phrases like get ready for SL make me laugh. Do any SL fans actually acknowledge a good number of the current SL line up have played in the lower leagues, guess what they survived and got back up so why would it be any different now in 2010?

The franchise system invented by idiots who are slowing killing this brilliant game!!

[DemonUK]

Memory is a funny thing isn't it and funni;y enough I can't seem to remember Leigh's crowds increasing markedly when they were promoted to SL. You would think if P&R was the big thing some people make it out to be then there would have been a huge increase. Maybe though that's just my memory playing tricks, it was a long time ago after all.

FYI and if memory serves Leighs SL crowds ranged from 3300 to 7500 with an average of just under 5000

[JohnM]

FYI and if memory serves Leighs SL crowds ranged from 3300 to 7500 with an average of just under 5000

about 4,700

see here

[Red Willow]

So let's think this through

Leigh promoted yr 1
Widnes promoted yr 2
Sheffield yr 3

each given 3 years grace so you would then relegate the team finishing higher than all those?

Widnes fans feel agreived when finishing 2nd bottom to allowed Cats in how would anyone feel if they finished above those 3 plus Cats adn Quins and possibly crusaders as expansion teams.

Get in the play offs but still relegated???

[Viking Warrior]

lobby and co should remember that this season leigh were in the championship by the grace of god, if gateshead hadn't gone #### up would you lot still be complaining about not being able to get into super league from C1??????????