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The Parksider

Member Since 06 Oct 2004
Offline Last Active Today, 07:11 AM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Crowdwatch Round 11

Today, 06:47 AM

just to pick up on this but 84k is a big figure for the championships to be increasing. That would work out at them needing to be about 1500 per game or 9k a round UP so far.


Zorkers is lost in a sea of uncomparable figures.


In 2014: 28 CC games aggregate 40,756 average  1,456

In 2015: the same 28 CC games aggregate 40,572 average  1,449


Beyond this we have Bradford bringing in some of the Championships biggest ever crowds, and we have five clubs who were on crowds in the hundreds who were ejected from the Championship for this year. It remains to be seen how many fans these clubs lose


And of course as good as the Bradford crowds supposedly are they are massively down on last year

The only REAL crowd success story is Leigh.


Is that down to the "structure"? well a very long winning run, and professionalisation is probably part of it, but I guess the opportunity to win promotion has to be the other part of it.


So crowd wise Leigh have gained this year as for the other 23 clubs they've either stood still or are showing some awful drops, yet the "averages" this year on last may look like we have a crowd boom!!


That's what you get chucking five badly supported clubs out of the figures, and shoving Bradford into the CC.

In Topic: Crowdwatch Round 11

Yesterday, 01:56 PM

The middle 8s 'battle' is likely to be between 2 or 3 clubs at best really. What is more likely is that two clubs are to all intents and purposes promoted, very quickly and 1 or 2 are out of the running very quickly


We'll I didn't have the bottle to make a prediction, but as your good self has suggested that this is most likely what the future could bring I do think a few top 8 accountants may have better news for their SL clubs than their bottom four counterparts.


Neither Fartown or Wakey are dead and buried in any sense, but with crowds down to 4,000 and 3,000 respectively this is pretty bad news. Sure in both cases it's the curse of Les Catalans but a lower poor core support has I think been laid bare here. If anyone needs third games against Leeds, Wigan and Saints it's these "poor relations".

In Topic: Crowdwatch Round 11

Yesterday, 01:39 PM

1 - I'm not sure this will even be true. I think the bigger issue we have in the game is lethargy from the clubs rather than whether this structure will be a hit or not. 


2 - I don't want to go round and round on this, but I find this point rather disingenuous. There is a claim that this structure would increase interest, how that is interpreted is up to the individual.



If this system works on the field this year it could absolutely drive crowds up next year in a similar fashion - even if crowds were down this year.


So the amount of time you are prepared to judge this over is absolutely key. Of course there are indications at every step of the way - hence these threads.


1. There is certainly a lethargy somewhere, whether it's from the clubs failure to market, whether it's from the fans failure to get excited about a game that is struggling and losing it's stars, whether it's easy to become lethargic when you can get your RL fix off TV three days in a row if Les Cats are at home and more and more drift that way or something else other than the new system who really knows. 


But as far as being a hit or not as you know I take the view I don't like PR and always want to get behind the double speak and find out what's really going on.


I do think that if Leeds pull say 15,000 for Wire Friday and get them again last game and pull another say 14,000 then the system will be absolutely working for the top clubs, Contrast that to a possible Wakey dead rubber in the middle eight, they are already down to 3,000 crowds.


2. No need to go in circles. There is space for an argument that if Leigh majestically sweep into Superleague and Paul Rowleys battle cries on BBC Sport are vindicated then maybe people will sit up and take notice and crowds will grow off that "next year".


But you can't have it both ways because maybe Leigh's success like Featherstones against castleford, will not take them anywhere and crowds may even go down next year because of this.


But you know relegation flopped, the 22 game every minute counts has flopped to date and I have to deduce so far it's very floppy. But your right it could stiffen up later when they are "at it" so to speak in the middle eight.

In Topic: Crowdwatch Round 11

Yesterday, 12:17 PM


There also comes a point where Parky's comparisons are no longer the best way to judge the crowd success. It works for the 22 home and away rounds as that can be done like for like, but the last 7 rounds have been changed so there is no like-for-like.


The last 7 games will be the really interesting part 


Your absolutely right, but if things carry on as they are then after the announcement was made about the changes introducing "jeopardy" of relegation......and the changes introducing "every minute counts" of the fight for the eights, in the first instance relegation destroyed crowds and in the second instance it may count but not in the attendances so far.


Too early even at 11 rounds to predict the final outcome of the 22 comparable games I know.


I agree there is no point comparing the rounds after round 23. 


I've not actually compared the rounds, only like for like games.


True there will be no continuing comparison as such at games 24-30.


But the structure for me will give the top teams games against each other, we will get Leeds and Wire again, Saints and Wigan, Saints and Wire. Leeds and saints etc etc. It will be fascinating to see what crowd levels we get because I feel we'll get more five figure crowds.


Conversely I will be ultra fascinated to see what middle eight produces. As you intimate there may be some real duff crowds there, there may be some belters and I would not dare to predict them.


Suffice to say I would add up the total average crowds to see where the winners and losers will be. The one area where I can see no losers is the top eight. It would be no surprise to me with the bigger and stronger fixture lists their average and aggregate attendances will both be well up on last year.


Which would take us back to the underlying argument not made enough on here which is even if crowds don't go up can that be totally attributable to the new structure?? It's a tough one, what isn't a tough one is the RFL/KPMG were clear the structure would increase interest - that was just an out and out boast - as figures show to date.


The RFL could (as it looks like top eight averages and aggregates will be well up) load their public relations guns with those increases and fire off a Salvo of "overall crowds are up" "our new system is an overall success".


But a success for who?  via what part of the system? After all a ten club closed shop SL with all the teams playing each other 3 times could probably whack top club attendances up even further than this one will.


I was listening to Tony Collins yesterday and what he said was that every time the RFL have changed the system there have always been positive effects for some clubs, but also for others there have always been negative effects. It's the "flaming obvious" I know but a good judge of the actual system after the season is over will be to assess just which clubs have done well out of it and which clubs will have done badly out of it.


I fear the latter number will be far far greater than the former number yet this system was apparently sold on something for everyone.

In Topic: Crowdwatch Round 11

Yesterday, 11:45 AM

I'm not, I'm happy to discuss it in these weekly threads, and am doing so.

happy to hear your interesting comments too.