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The Parksider

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  1. Yes, the original source was BBC sports saying TWP budget a £5.87 Million spend a year. A commentator in the RL press suggested as TWP don't get any TV money (and do a lot of free tickets to fans) then at that level of turnover clearly Argyle was having to dig very deep into his own pockets. Big thanks to my financial advisor. Cheque is in the post. The income nowhere near covers expenses, it's £Millions short, that's what is being said, TWP loses about £3 Million a year. Hughes has put about a £Million a year into London for 20 years. This is to pay the creditors which London Broncos Ltd. can't fully pay on their income so Hughes put's in an extra £Million making himself a creditor. But he then writes that debt off and the club break even. What you miss for TWP is Argyle equally has to put in £Millions himself to pay creditors balance the books then he writes off that debt to his own club off, or lists it as additional Directors investment and everyone is paid and the books balance. What you also miss Damian was that the losses were to be stood by Argylle and supposedly four more NA club Chairmen/directors at other NA clubs like Montreal, Vancouver, New York and Ottawa whilst enough North American clubs got into Superleague at which point Perez was to sell the Superleague rights to someone like Fox sports for $$$several hundred million. Then as you say they would all go into profit down the line. But Superleague have said they do not want North American clubs and Superleague won't share any TV deals with them and are intending to take the SKY deal next time. So whilst you in theory are right - New businesses borrow and go into debt, and later on they go into profit if the business plan works, but sadly Superleague have scuppered the TWP business plan and won't give TWP a penny. TWP expected to get a share of the SKY money once in Superleague. They didn't get it. This has killed off TWP's original ambitions, PLUS there is now no point any other NA club entering the game here either as Superleague will not let them in or give them any TV money. It was clear you were a phoney baloney trolling. No thanks...
  2. Erm the debate is TWP's admission via their coach they have not been able to deliver any players or TV deals and are unlikely to do that. These were the success criteria their founder set the club, plus in failing to do that they ran up a £10,000,000 debt and continue to run that higher as they enter Superleague. Oddly enough their coach excuses this total failure of their business plan on the other clubs for not being "big city's". Just admit TWP far from being a massive success are a massive failure, and we can call it a day?? Having a go at me is the usual cheap trick tried literally more than a thousand times. Trying to hound someone out of a debate isn't grown up is it? 1. 123 years on and the model still works, only in the last 23 years the success has risen a level with the game stepping up from semi-pro to Professional. We have done pretty good and continue onwards with a new SKY deal waiting. 2. You have your one opinion, thousands of fans have theirs - as a democrat I'll accept the majority vote. TWP are now pointless by their own admission no players, no TV deals and one of the biggest trading debts ever in the history of the game. 3. I don't see it at all because you woffle on from post to post claiming your a marketing genius, but never actually set out your cunning plan. Please let myself and my business advisor Mr. Gubrats know what it is. We may start our own club in Timbuktu with this plan.
  3. You make a heck of a lot of stuff up but don't make it up about me. It's business as usual, the game goes forward from 1896 onwards to another SKY deal in 2022 when TWP probably will be ejected at that point when they will still have developed no players, still have no NATV deal and will have racked up a £20M deficit..And you want a league full of clubs like this!!! Where they have come from since 1896, what a ridiculous argument, as is your North American claptrap. McDermott has had to come out and come clean on behalf of TWP and admit they aren't going to be developing players or getting TV deals, i.e. that failed. It's clear your only fishing for "like this" emojies. You got ten, now convince 100,000 SL fans you have a point. SKY have a deal ready for Superleague. This time they don't want to fund the Championship so for Superleague it will be business as usual, however for TWP they won't justify a place as the North American dream is dead. Perez said it could not be done with TWP alone, and given the massive debt run up trying, nobody is going to follow. And all the lame excuses will be coming out today, I've seen plenty of nonsense from you this last three years but at least you stopped trying to justify TWP fairly early and went over to trolling for "like this" emojies. How old are you BTW?
  4. Grow up and stop fishing for “like this” emojies, they don't make you right. The SKY TV deal provided over £20 million to clubs outside Superleague they will no longer get 2022 onwards. SL clubs will take all the money from the reduced SKY deal as they will need every penny to put on a show for TV. What are you talking about “give it a decade”. It coming around NOW in 2022, don’t you read anything up or are you too busy making it all up? Did you miss Superleague preparing for this early this year when they offered to take 20 clubs under their juridstiction in two leagues of 10. Yes your accidentally right there will be likely just 10 fully pro-Superleague Clubs as a result of the reduced SKY deal, ten in the championship to provide P & R and the rest left to do what they want. There’s no chance Toronto Wolfpack will be given a place in that set up by clubs who just don’t want them now. Don’t you get that? Don’t you wonder why New York never started and Ottawa pulled back? If McManus and Lenegan see TWP as phoney doesn't it occur to you they see these other clubs - who haven't got a Billionaire to waste £10M phonier than phoney? What?? It's "utter madness" to just carry on predicting more and more phoney clubs. I think you once proudly declared you had me on ignore - which is a way to keep your fantasies alive - but I'll tell others this if you have your fingers in your ears that of course these clubs can't have academies on inception but Brian McDermott said TWP wouldn't have an academy for many years and maybe not in his lifetime- you can only have an academy if you have a large schools and junior game and once again for what - the 1,000th time there isn't a junior RL game in Canada or the USA, it's all Rugby Union and Argyle accepts that. No it's not the problem. The game does rely on the richer members of the Rugby league family to invest their excess money made in business into their favoured clubs. That's how it works in RL...and Union....and Soccer....at local levels. These people aren't looking for "returns" at all. The man who doesn't care about "returns" has just wasted £10,000,000 on TWP because he likes RL, where on earth are the returns beyond the M62 there?? Sure the big soccer clubs with worldwide interest can get massive returns but this sin't how rugby league works, nor rugby union either. Next year Argylle has probably even higher overheads and there's no TV deals now or even on the horizon so he'll hardly be getting "returns". You seem to be ignoring one heck of a lot of reality, if your going to dream please do so but don't try to tell me that anyone can make money out of Rugby clubs................. And this is why North Americans aren't going to waste £Millions on a foreign game are they. The scale of these pipe dreams is immense, but they are all traceable to one dreamer - Eric Perez.......... He ain't half suckered in you guys.......
  5. We have, and have had clubs in Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, London, Coventry, Manchester and Cardiff. All large populations, and all very capable indeed of attracting no more than a few hundred fans. Broadcasters know that the kind of clubs who pull the audiences are Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Leeds, Hull and at one time Bradford. Everyone on this silly dreamland thread thinks that the support clubs get only comes from within their town boundaries and that is garbage. When Cas get a 9,000 crowd that isn't one in four people in Cas going to the match. Everyone thinks they only watch soccer in Liverpool and Rugby in St.Helens. People travel and anyone who likes RL in Liverpool can go to saints and vice versa for the soccer. There are no "sound theories" on here. Scotchy's never had point in all his time on here. You know full well what clubs like Leigh need and it is someone like Derek Beaumont spending his money on good players to take Leigh into Superleague where in normal years they would not have been relegated as they came 11th. In Cas I can't think of much "corporate business" after Hicksons left, nor can I think of any corporate facilities of note at Wheldon Road but Castleford compete thanks to Ian Fulton's money. Everyone's pushing imaginary clubs around the table like it's a board game. The reality is that investment in Rugby league comes mostly from dyed in the wool Rugby League people, who come from Rugby league land. As I say we have a London club thanks to a Swinton man, we have a phoney Canadian club thanks to an Australian NRL fan etc etc, that's the reality, but somehow less and less of us can keep a handle on reality. Yes loads of research. We no longer are born bred, live and die in the same place so clubs pull fans from significantly wide catchment areas which overlap. People have cars now and people in RL towns go watch soccer, people in soccer towns go elsewehere to watch Rugby league. On a Wigan matchday people in Manchester get on the train to go watch them. When Leeds play people travel down from York for the game. as above a large part of the Cas crowd aren't from Cas. Do you think when Bulls were pulling 16,000 they all came from Bradford? Your right to have a problem with the "Big city league" because it's utter garbage Macca was spouting simply to excuse the fact TWP cannot get a paying Television deal which they promised. In short it's somehow not their fault they have no TV deal and NATV companies have no interest in them. But do you think for one minute any NATV company would ever pay £Millions to screen games Americans aren't familiar with with fixtures involving clubs they've never heard of from England? The reality is they play RL across the M62 and that throws up investors across the M62, and fans across the M62, and TV audiences across the M62 and beyond. That gets us a TV deal and that's how the game survives. We take advantage of all the advantages the M62 and our traditions give us. To believe we can take the game out of the M62 and plant it somewhere where Rugby Union is inevitably king is bonkers. It just does not work. And this is the bottom line Toronto Wolfpack do not work, they have run up a £10,000,000 debt to get to Superleague - something a Billionaire Australian NRL fan is happy to do. But do you really think anyone else in North America is ever going to do that?? No chance, so when the SKY deal runs out SL will boot them out and we can all get back to Reality Rugby league.......
  6. The "15 years" is just the excuse to kick the can down the road, Given you need 100 talented RL kids to find a quality professional or two amongst them then you need thousands playing, and that's a lot of kids needed to be playing RL in Canada. How do you get them playing it anyway when there is nowhere to play it and nobody to organise and coach it? Of course there's Canada Rugby Union where Canada kids do go and play so the rival code has all the players and always will. The TWP owner doesn't have the lifetime left to see anything come to fruition on the player front, his ex-sidekick Perez simply says "It's not easy" when asked about where will RL players come from in Canada. McDermott himself says he'll be too old to ever see it if anything did happen, or do much about it. Then there's the idea the "first" Canada RL player may take 15 years to appear, so that's still 29 more required for a full squad all still having to come from here in 2035. But that's a tough ask anyway as the new SKY deal is less money take it or leave it, at which point SL will have no commitment to include TWP anyway, their current inclusion being agreed with the RFL only as part of the severance deal between SL and RFL. In the new SKY deal SL can choose who they want in Superleague as McManus said on behalf of the clubs they didn't want a phoney Canadian club now, and they rightly won't give them a penny now from this deal. Why would they choose them next time? They don't like them. The only way another Canaian club can come about is if there are people in Canada wanting to spend 3 years losing £10,000,000 in the process. Sure the dyed in the wool Aussie RL enthusiast is happy to do that but why would any Canadian want to do that?? So TWP are not wanted, and it's not long before it will be all change for the new SKY deal when the Superleague may be down to 10 clubs as they tried to organise for last January. TWP won't be in there unless your naive enough to believe Superleague will part company with Cas, or Fartown or Huddersfield etc? so what is the point of Ottawa or New York starting up or even Montreal or Vancouver whom Perez says have rung him? I think he's hearing voices in his head don't you?? Against this massive wall of evidence that there is no transatlantic league to come and no Superleague bosses want TWP, and won't give them any share of any money how do you manage to even suggest .... "Toronto will be left standing in 15 years time by which time they will be left producing a higher number of players" This isn't debate, this is fantasy RL in which the reality of SL bosses openly saying they don't want TWP and openly not giving them a penny of the TV money is totally ignored along with the reality that the reduced SKY deal will take away £Thousands of SKY funding from league one and Championship clubs effectively killing them off. But somehow in your head you manage to see all these Canadian clubs joining and developing the Canadian RL game there despite it being crystal clear the only NA "club" that exists isn't wanted by SL clubs or a big majority of fans here, as polls suggest, so why would anyone else in Canada bother to set anything up at such massive costs?
  7. All I want is people to know and acknowledge is "big city" TWP came into the game here promising players and TV deals. Last week they made McDermott come out and say they cannot get a TV deal and now he’s been sent out to say they’ll never develop players for at least 15 years if ever. There's no point to the debate if you and especially people like Scotchy keep on telling us that big city clubs are the future when they clearly are not because as many big money people may live in these places they have no interest in Rugby League, and furthermore wherever Rugby League may attract investment you can be sure Rugby Union will be there deliberately muscling us out which happens regularly in a number of countries but you and Scotchy and others just do not realise it, and you don't look anything up or talk to people in the know. Like it or not TWP will be gone in time as SL bosses didn't want them not because they are "anti expansion" but because TWP aren't actually expansion just a rich Australians made up club. I'm not trying to offend TWP or their fans but that is what they are. That is how SL bosses and most SL fans see them. Clearly you have had to hit the "ignore" button a lot of times to be able to ignore the facts and go on trying to sell the idea of big cities where they don't play RL but invariably play RU, and where they do have many rich people but invariably none interested in Rugby league is going to be the games future. Like it or not Featherstone Rovers have had some great times down the years and have carried off both the Cup and the league under the noses of far bigger clubs than themselves, and they did that with many local players many of whom were Internationals. Like it or not Featherstone Rovers will always offer more than Toronto Wolfpack can ever offer to the game here They may be small and just about solvent, but in contrast what you fail to acknowledge is TWP are $10,000,000 in debt. and don't have any home grown players nor do they underpin any TV deal which Featherstone would have brought to SL had they got the promotion spot. This is the truth of your big city nonsense - even if Investors fancied a go with an RL club in places they don't play it it is not an investment. There are no profits to be made from Rugby League. You have to want to flush £$£$Millions down the drain if you want to run a pro-rugby league club. Why can't you and others see this fact? This is why TWP are where they are because their RL loving Aussie owner is happy to flush sackfulls of dollars down the toilet but let's not pretend other people in Canada, the USA or even Ireland, Wales or Scotland or even Copenhagen, Barcelona or Belgrade have any interest in doing that. If anyone did RU would be knocking on their door. Indeed - the fantasy goes on and on. As you are here I am inclined to continue to call out Scotchy on his big city nonsense by noting that your own small town has provided us with a rich investor who took Leigh to Superleague. I must note your 11th. place finish was worthy of you retaining your place in Superleague as well but the crackpot play off system did for you. Nevertheless Mr. Beaumont is up for another go next season and I wish him and your club all the very best. I fear however your promotion in 2020 may just see the wrong club relegated for you. By that time however the new and reduced SKY deal may just put an end to the Transatlantic dream. Please let's stop thinking Argyle flushing $Millions down the bog is "expansion".......Expansion is by Perez's own definition more quality players and more TV money. let's see who still doesn't get that.............
  8. OK we need Ottawa, Barcelona, New York, Copenhagen Vancouver, Paris, Montreal, London, Rome, Perth, Toronto, Belgrade and Leeds. And we do not need Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Hull.K.R, Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield, York, Leigh Halifax and Featherstone We can organise this between us Scotchy! I will ring Messrs Lenegan, McManus, Moran, Hudgell, Fulton, Carter, Davey, Flatman, Beaumont, Grayson and Campbell and tell them they are parochial and small time and of no use to Rugby League, get lost!. You can ring round all the rich investors in all those big international cities and offer them the chance to own an RL Superleague Franchise.( You may have to explain what Rugby league is to them though?) Now can you see how silly your being?? Every post you do tries to isolate me as a lone voice. As TWP were leaving the obscurity of the Championship guess what? McManus came out for SL and condemned TWP as a phoney club they don't want but are stuck with due to the separation agreement between RFL & SL there would be P& R. Then Love RL and Hull newspapers do polls amongst the fans on what they think TWP bring to the game. Just as most SL bosses think they are phoneys so do 70% of the fans polled who don't see the point of them against who? You and a dozen dreamers on here?? I think it's you that are in a tiny minority of people who can't accept TWP are what thousands know they are, An Australians plaything, based in Manchester, flying off to Canada to pretend to be expansion in a country that McDermott now admits there will be no TV deal and Perez admits there's no Canadian players as it hasn't been easy to find or develop any. Give me something of substance that TWP offer here in this country? As for the RL Media they serve all fans and just about make a living doing that. I don't expect them to take sides - just wish for the best for all clubs. These guys need to stay neutral to maintain a living which I have contributed to for 50 years buying all their publications. I earn a say on here, which is SL bosses and 70% of fans can't see the point of TWP. London Broncos had a great season, surprised many and now we have to lose an important club in terms of our geographical spread here to a phoney club who bring nothing to the game. No London on SKY and no pathway to SL for their Academy players. It's a horrible blow to the game here but SL were stuck with it as part of the separation agreement from the RFL. I think once we get to the new SKY deal, we will be able to put this nonsense behind us. As for your probing question you got an answer. Now tell me this, TWP promised players and TV deals - NOT fans - McDermott has admitted they can't get TV deals and Perez admitted there are no players because in the end that was "not easy". So they should really stand down on these broken promises shouldn't they? What a blow to lose London......
  9. That is factless rubbish, another terrible post from you. The money is in the pockets of rich men who like Rugby league. David Hughes is a dyed-in-the-wool league fan from Swinton who made his millions as an oil trader. Hughes, now 73, says. “I would estimate it’s somewhere in the region of £20m probably that I’ve invested in London". Paul Caddick played Rugby union for Headingley, but only a short distance from the league giants Leeds he invested heavily in. The Fulton family who bankroll tiny Castleford on the outskirts of Wakefield make their money from a predominantly West Yorkshire based food retailers. Ian Lenegan made his money in Milton Keynes but was born and bred in Wigan. Neil Hudgell in Hull makes his money to back Rovers from his solicitors business branches across Yorkshire. Ken Davey was born north of there in Filey but started his businesses in Huddersfield and adopted Fartown, Eamon McManus is a Saints lad. Hull owner Adam Pearson is a Yorkshire lad Rich RL club owners mostly have an affinity to the RL game itself, if not their home town teams. Had Caddick been born and raised in Pontefract or Featherstone then Fev could easily have been challenging for trophies. Fev did have a rich backer in Faisal Nahaboo. He pulled out of the small club, but equally Richard Branson pulled out of London. Steve O'Connor picked up Widnes and pulled out, and big city Bradford Bulls never found a rich owner, but Salford dropped on three who all pulled out, Snape, Wilkinson and Koukash, little Leigh have Beaumont.Your just plain wrong Scotchy Toronto are massively lucky to have dropped on an RL enthusiast happy to waste $$Millions on Rugby League. That's not because Toronto is a big city, it's because Argyle has a close affinity with RL being from Australia. TWP are lucky he's in Toronto following his mining interest just as London are lucky Hughes is down there following his Oil interests. This is why North America as big and rich as it is won't be backing any more clubs from there. The rich people there have never heard of Rugby League and have no affinity with it..... What is all this "growing and improving the brand" stuff Red? Don't get dragged in by Scotchy. Just stand back and look at the facts. We attract most of our private investor money from people within the game who have mainly grown up in the game. Argyle loves Rugby league because he's from the NRL. Sure outsiders have come to live in the north of England and got interested like Kurdi in Newcastle and Koukash when he came to live in Lancashire. Often when we have lost a rich northern owner like Arthur Thomas another has stepped in like Derek Beaumont. Ted Richardson left Wakefield who now have Michael Carter. If Argyle walks that's that. The brand is strong along the M62 so we attract rich owners along the M62. Not in Barcelona or Copenhagen places TWP want to swan about pretending to grow the game, when in fact they are avoiding the bad weather in Canada. You say The risk of accepting these phoney clubs is you kill the existing. That's no risk it's a certainty, you can't shift out five SL clubs for TWP and four more like them without ripping the game apart here. I've spent the last week listening to RL people on the media all too scared to discuss TWP's promotion, all calling it "expansion" all calling it "a great thing" a "shot in the arm". More like a bullet in the brain if we keep replacing clubs here.....But we won't do that, and those people won't have to face questions about more NA clubs coming in because they know Argyle the Aussie is the only backer in America. They go along with the idea this is "expansion" so as not to appear parochial and insular.........
  10. Well one has to "love" your perseverance, I really do. BUT be fair - your entry to SL hurt London who did very well but went down for a guest club, and hurt investment in Leigh where the owner knew he was outspent by that guest club, so he didn't invest in his team as he was outspent. That aside I would seriously love you guys to have a go at SL and see how it pans out. Had you been refused and folded I probably would not actually have taken that much pleasure in that - I do want to see how it goes given your at the door now. I'd suggest on your "more teams, more fans and more revenue" you forget TWP didn't generate "more revenue" did they? They lost $$Millions due to the heavy travel costs and spending far too much money on players as will other NA clubs but I'd love for you guys to have a go anyway. Not sure about how higher salaries can be afforded and even if they were TWP did offer top college athletes the chance to get those high salaries but they could not adapt to the game. Paying players high salaries doesn't lead to them becoming great RL players does it? There has to be a big junior and amateur game to find elite athletes and I would actually love it if TWP would just set us something up next year? I love your optimism and perseverance and on the whole you've got to love fellow RL fans even if you don't agree with them at times! we are where we are so I'd love you to have a season in the sun here in England and Superleague as it will be fascinating to see how it goes........... Good luck......
  11. In the 1860's pioneers were Huddersfield, Hull Leigh and York and the 1870's were such as Wigan St. Helens Wakefield Salford and Warrington and of course later entrants like Leeds and Castleford took their strength from the dominance of the Rugby Code over football, in the early years. Those were the years of growth. Growth faltered for the Rugby code with the advent of the far more popular game of soccer, and 1888 gave us the Football league and that just about stifled the growth of Rugby per se, and then in 1896 Rugby split geographically. We ended up isolated in the north of England with little chance of any growth in other places that were almost invariably soccer dominated with any Rugby interest rooted in the Union game. Sure these games were exported and Australia took to League, but wherever League wishes to expand now they have union to contend with, soccer to contend with and in places like Canada and the USA other forms of "Football" with long histories of dominance. It's not just that. To grow a club you need very rich investors to invest. They have to have a strong affinity with RL to do so so it's either Northern Businessmen or Australian Businessmen who grew up with League who want to invest. Even in Canada there are no such persons as of course David Argyle is Australian and rooted in the NRL. RL Clubs do spring up in the unlikeliest of places thanks to an RL enthusiast organising interested parties. Some rugby people do prefer league around the world, but we are talking amateur and not Professional - the gap is immense. In RL since 1896 we have allowed about 50 clubs to enter the professional ranks and of course many of those have been city's like London, Liverpool, Sheffield, Nottingham. Newcastle etc. The latter a work in progress the former failures. It's not just investors we need - all the 50 failures had investors some VERY rich ones, but Mr. Argyle proves that to get anywhere at all in the pro ranks outside the heartlands you have to be prepared to lose ££Millions and lose that year on year year after year. Argyle may actually do that until the grim reaper calls, but you can forget the Euro League Fantasy, the Transatlantic League Fantasy and of course the World League fantasy. Mr. McDermott will say and back anything his paymasters require. In this case he will make the excuse that TWP have now created a roaring success with TWP and it's up to others now to follow suit, it's up to the Superleague board of directors to get behind finding more clubs - after all Barcelona, Copenhagen, Belgrade, Ottawa, New York, Montreal Perth and Vancouver are all ready to go - all inspired by the advent of Toronto Wolfpack. TWP have done the groundwork - it's up to SL bosses to seize the day. Thus the almost certain demise of TWP the best thing since sliced baloney will be all Superleagues fault the day it happens. Big Picture can see the dream. All it takes is finding mega rich sports minded people from places they generally don't like Rugby and if they do it will invariably be Rugby Union they had watched, played and loved. Good luck to BP and good luck to Bob8 who offers his help. But it's not for me - I like what I like and so do 150,000 RL enthusiasts who will be putting TWP under the microscope next year.
  12. When are you moving out? First two fans polls are in it’s a ratio of 5-2 against TWP………..Read on… Show me a single player or TV dollar they have produced Bob. They don't play the game in Canada beyond a bit of recreational stuff and McDermott admits he can't get any TV deals. They need to build the game there. Nope, you tried to dismiss the firm on record commitment from TWP to benefit the game here as not relevant. You said getting a paying TV contract is just “Something to work towards” and developing players is “Not TWP’s Core purpose”. McManus on behalf of SL berated them for no players, McDermott has tried to excuse the club from no paying TV contract. We now see polls on TWP, one in which Humberside fans were 2-1 against TWP and Love Rugby League fans polled 3-1 unhappy with McDermott’s excuses. You and Bob can't put thousands of fans and Superleague bosses all on ignore can you? Mate, I’ve nothing personal at all against your club in general or you lads who come on here apart from the odd couple who get nasty and think debate should be shut down and posters banned. TWP just need to understand they should put in, not take out which is why they got no SKY money. Long ago I said TWP should stay in the Championship and try to build something. That’s why SL bosses are angry with you guys. Why not stop playing games and have an honest chat about the difficulties Mr. Reaper???? EDIT: OK seen this below, forget it.............
  13. Sorry John but I've had my fill of "visions" on here. We have had the European League with Barcelona, Copenhagen and Belgrade leading a list of Euro cities, we have had the Transatlantic League from Vancouver to Hull and New York to St.Helens, and we have had the World league from Wigan to Perth courtesy of your own chairman. All that is left is Planet League in which Warrington Wolves will play the Moon as the opening fixture. I've no hate for any RL club or RL fan, it was Bob8 who started the hate stuff ("put the "idiot" on ignore" he said about me to everyone) because I was against the idea that we could "expand" the game throwing imaginary endless $$Millions at it in places they don't want to play it, don't want to invest in it (Argyle is not Canadian) and Union has total domination. My vision was for Argylle to spend that money in London, and he very nearly did. I think that was a good vision John - two well financed London clubs? Any "vision" needs to be practical, achievable and sustainable. and I remember asking you to consider the practicalities of fake Canadian clubs replacing real clubs here? You had no real answer to that, but as you can now see a very good London lost out by a whisker this year and leaves Superleague. I had a vision of two London clubs in SL, yet we don't even have the one now, and guess who is replacing them 3,000 miles away. It's quite ungentlemanly for you to now want me to reveal even more my thoughts when you were the one who flatly refused to converse when I asked you to consider the effect of TWP replacing such as London, then NY for Wakefield, then Ottawa for Huddersfield, Montreal for Castleford and Vancouver for Hull.K.R.? That is the Perez vision - let me know if you are for that?? I'm personally not and in any case long before we could get that far the backlash will begin. Oxford has already posted a Hull Daily Mail poll in which Rugby League fans here comment on the value of TWP and are a clear 2-1 against. We were both about when radical changes were suggested in 1996 on the merger issue and fans overwhelmingly killed that. I think the customer who is king is often right don't you? Not only that, those who own and finance the game (Caddick. Davey, Pearson, Hudgell, Moran, Lenegan, McManus. Fulton etc) have their own vision and It does not appear to be Transatlantic. They said they didn't want TWP publicly, they denounced them publicly as an English team in Canadian Jerseys, they refused to share SKY money with them, and by all accounts exchanges with Argyle were heated, with SL trapped into accepting them due to an agreement to maintain P & R this year at least as part of the RFL/SL split negotiations and agreement. Any Transatlantic ideas you have I suggest won't get past the chairmen or the fans. Any views I have on TWP I suggest this majority of tens of thousands of people shares with me......As opposed to a handful of people on here who think Transatlantic..... I don't do "visions" as such, I'll leave that to the Soothsayers on here........I'm more in line with Marty Funkhouser who pondered just how ridiculous all the dreaming had become on here. Suffice to say I'm thoroughly behind the reality of SL chairmen who kindly invest their money to keep the game alive here as has been the case since 1896, we made it to 1996 and Superleague, perhaps another 100 years?? Over you you John what are your candid thoughts?? Canadian cousins welcome to the open debate guys, don't just send me your smilies
  14. Mind your own business. Fans of fellow real SL clubs have been our “guests” at matches for many years, come in good numbers, are most welcome, and add a lot to the gate money, atmosphere and match experience. A TWP game will be “one to miss”. What’s remarkable about a $Billionaire using $Millions buying in professionals from here to beat small part time clubs? In 2002 Fartown won every Championship game to go up. They can’t. Perez said this year it isn’t easy, Argyle doesn’t even try, even TWP fans on here concede they won’t produce any players for many many years to come, and Canada RU is actively working against any RL development. They willl remain a Manchester based English team...Oh whoopeee. Jeez how many times? To produce Canadian SL players and a Canadian TV deal. Neither happened or will happen. Red Herring A.K.A. Ignoratio elenchi beside the point, irrelevant thesis. Description: Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. The deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument that TWP in reality offered the game TV money and Canadian players to get accepted to the RFL. Not crowds. Especially if they don't come here...... Again Fartown won every Championship game to go up and the following season they came 10th. and lost 16 games. This is why TWP just need to get in SL then they will either deliver and save the game here or be exposed for what they are i,e, a Huddersfield without any player development or TV deal. What they aren't is glamorous, or the future of the game here. Time for the game as a whole to have an open and honest public discussion about this beyond this small talking shop we don't need Ottawa next.
  15. That's a great post calling out TWP for their bluff and bluster. I recall when Featherstone were set for Superleague under an investor called Faisal Nahaboo, the man took fright and resigned, and Featherstone collapsed accordingly. They were saved by linking with Leeds on the dual registration system basically acting as a player nursery for Leeds. Yesterdays TWP victory was a £2Million professional team beating a part time Leeds Nursery team, and not by a lot at that. What an achievement McDermott has obviously been given his script by his paymaster to continue to spout the propoganda that if there's one club we can't do without it's TWP, because they are the first of many big cities that are going to get on board with RL. As I have always said and as all the dreamers on here won't answer is what happens if you repeat the TWP model again and again? Replace HKR with Barcelona? Huddersfield with Ottawa? Salford with New York, Wakefield with Belgrade, Castleford with Copenhagen? I've neen asking this for three years and nobody from the "expansion" brigade ever answers it. They mock and insult but they don't answer the key question. Anyone can spout the stuff McDermott has been told to spout, but nobody can back it. If anyone really thinks that closing SL clubs down and shipping their players off to big cities thousands of miles away is going to make all the people who run and support player development in towns along the M62 happy, they are deluded. Their interest in the game lies in. and lies with their local clubs not being servants to Vancouver. Back the the OP - Does anyone "HATE" TWP?............It's a daft question, the real question is does anyone believe progressively replacing M62 clubs with NA clubs will work. Again nobody want to answer this but the clear plan as articulated by Perez is New York, Ottawa, Montreal and Vancouver in Superleague in place of four existing SL clubs by 2016. That's to get the NA content to get the massive NATV deal promised. This is ridiculous but about 30 people on here who seem to think they are a majority voice (despite there being about 150,000 RL fans) are convinced it's a "cunning plan" OR they were so enthused and lapped it up at the start that they don't have the guts to admit they were wrong. Easier on this type of media to chuck insults and mock people rather than answer the concerns. I am absolutely fine with TWP going up and it's a shame they didn't go up last year. If they had then most fans in the game would know by now that they are what they are, an average M62 team owned by an Australian, based in Manchester who rent a ground in Ottawa to pretend to be the start of a Rugby League revolution in North America. Not that they are. The first "Start" was when Perez re-started Canada RL that's failed 10 years on, the second start was the Denver test to enthuse NA fans for the NA RL World Cup. They pulled it, nobody was interested. At some point fans of the American dream need to stop just pulling their tongues out, and RL journalists need to give us some more serious analysis rather than repeat the TWP party line Macca has been made to repeat. As for fellow SL clubs what went wrong there? How did they ever manage to get stuck with a club they don't want and their chairman they don't like. And this is an important point, as per the negotiations for TWP to enter apparently SL chairmen were dead set against it, and things got heated with Argyle having a go back at them. That was a rumour at the time but Macca actually confirms it. Superleague is not a happy camp with this massive multi $$Million loss making phoney club, who will never produce a single NA player or big TV deal, and will never be followed by another NA club as SL chairmen won't make the same mistake twice. So where are we with it? Well it's not the end game, job done as TWP fans want to gloat. It is certainly The end of the honeymoon and with the SKY TV deal ending in a couple of years that will be the end of TWP, which could have been earlier than now if SL had been allowed to drop to 10 clubs as they wanted to do or this year so desperate were they not to have TWP. For me TWP really need to be exposed and not just kicked out. Had they been refused SL we would have suffered an avalanche of posts as to how the game had losttheir only chance of survival and signed their own death warrant. We need them to go into SL and show us how it's rally done and deliver on all what I know, is phoney baloney.
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