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Rugby League Yearbook 2014-15

The Parksider

Member Since 06 Oct 2004
Offline Last Active Today, 09:48 AM

#3129417 Crowdwatch - Round 15

Posted by The Parksider on 26 May 2015 - 06:42 AM

The Cas HUdds is a bit of a shocker


On the broader "shocker" picture the last crowds for Cas/Wakey/Fev average 3,104


The average for the three in 1995 overall was 4,607


Under licensing the best average for the three was 5,647


None of these stats are comparable, but you don't need statistics to realise that the Calder area with their old grounds and local rivalries foremost have failed to make any progress in the last 20 years. In fact they have gone backwards.


It's a shame not a dig. 

#3126197 attendances tonight

Posted by The Parksider on 21 May 2015 - 05:40 AM

Because it shows how low we are within the price elasticity of demand.



Parky, try going to other 'events'. Ive been to an F1 event, 6N, Champions League etc.

You decry p and r, then advocate focusing in the field. You are inconsistent at best.

It is very easy to see why rl isnt premium, but you are on a single track, and that is all you want to focus on. That's fine, crack on, but dont mock Scotchy and me for that.


Read that back. All you do is criticise me for not going to other events, and use the you, you you stuff.


The pair of "you" have not made a coherent argument but deflected the issue by saying I haven't been to a Formulae I event. Is it really the case that Warrington.v.Leeds in the Northern Rugby League is comparable with Lewis Hamilton at the British Grand Prix a worldwide draw, in a sport where some of the world's richest Businessmen abound? 


Is it really the case that Hull.v.Leeds in the RL challenge cup that ends in a half full Wembley with the corporates having no interest in attending the luxury facilities already in place is comparable with a European Champions match between say Manchester United and Barcelona they could sell out at top dollar six times over.


What you call inconsistency is a willingness to change my mind in debate and as for mocking read Scotchy's posts again and your own as neither of you engage in debate.


You two tell me just how comparable are some of the worlds greatest sports events, that attract massive spectator and viewing interest and immense corporate sponsorship and big big business interest with Superleague league games??


Try to answer the question, and forget having a go at me because I dare to disagree with yours and Scotchy's point? Stick to the debate.

#3125552 Wakefield part company with Webster

Posted by The Parksider on 20 May 2015 - 04:44 AM

bloody hell i agree with you for once 


That's because the topic isn't Widnes and you don't feel a need to bull them up or excuse them.

#3125287 Wakefield part company with Webster

Posted by The Parksider on 19 May 2015 - 02:59 PM

Can Wakey afford the right coach?..


Panic overspending is part of any P & R system.

#3125058 attendances tonight

Posted by The Parksider on 19 May 2015 - 09:33 AM

I think we broadly agree with the points, but you do appear to be treating it as an either/or situation. The marketing dept should be a constant, driving the business forward, the rugby dept should be trying to improve the team, the CEO and management team should be looking after the stadium and infrastructure. They all matter.


Well we agree entirely because If I have given you the idea I'd dump "marketing" I certainly would not as long as it remained cost effective and even if it didn't, then I'd keep it and change it if I controlled a club.


It's very common as you know for companies to go through loads of "salesmen" because they take out more than the bring in.Where I came in on this was when people other than yourself simply said that all the game had to do was up it's marketing.  They were hailing a glib one solution sorts it line.


As you say other things matter.


I'm not saying build a load of new stadia and bring in marquee players. That's just as daft a "just like that" idea as "marketing".


But I have always felt (not wishing to re-start old arguments) that if the game wants bigger crowds then it has to be realistic and look to the sort of league structure and getting the sort of clubs in that league structure that can maximise crowds.


It needs to get better facilities at these clubs (The Cas & Wakey struggles being a tragedy) maybe Odsal can be uprated cost effectively, maybe bringing in Toulouse's stadia,which could help international crowds.


It also needs to look at playing talent and maximising that, and Tony Smith's call for a reserve league is something that would help with that rather than the fans walking away when their clubs cry they can't raise a team.


Certainly not an either/or strategy


For much better crowds a five pronged maximisation of SL Structure/Facilities/Fanbase/Player strength/Marketing would be my policy.


These five things if we did our best with them could see decent crowd levels again.

#3124994 attendances tonight

Posted by The Parksider on 19 May 2015 - 06:22 AM

There are those who complain about thirsdsy night games and now they say nobody is interested in the cup.

Why don't you follow another sport as frankly you have no interest in rugby league.


I don't understand your point?


If some people don't find Thursday nights a good night to attend the live game and watch it on TV instead or not, that's fine by me. If they don't join the terraces until the semi finals of the cup that's fine by me. If I see them just at Friday SL games and the semis/final of the cup that's fine by me.


Why does "interested in Rugby League" have to be undying club loyalty, or 100% attendance at games? 


Unsure of your point but slavish attendance and I'm a better supporter than the next man, isn't an argument here. Diehard supporters are a minority of people clubs cannot actually rely on. The 400 diehards at Oldham aren't what the club needs it's the 6,000 flakey ones.

#3124989 attendances tonight

Posted by The Parksider on 19 May 2015 - 06:05 AM

Take a step back Parky for your own sake and remember that RL primarily exists as a sport, not a marketing exercise. Have a brew and relax pal.


Your way off there Matt. I'm not he one going on about "Marketing", sure it's a sport, but it fast becomes a business when £Millions are involved. If you can find your glasses Matt pop them on and read it again.

#3124464 attendances tonight

Posted by The Parksider on 18 May 2015 - 06:39 AM

Maybe, just maybe, the Challenge Cup has run it's course and the general public don't have an appetite for it any more.


This is what the figures actually show.


I don't think the "general public" have an appetite for RL no matter how you package it, but we have a niche market in certain traditional areas and they decide what excites them....


Not "Marketing".


The Cup clearly does not excite them, Superleague and Old Trafford have replaced the Cup and Wembley as the premiership competition. The crowds have flocked to that instead.


Instead of scratching our heads wondering why we can't sell an outdated product, in a market where there is a new product people want to spend their money on and going on about "Marketing" being our failure.......


We need to realise that our Marketing has been great. We doubled crowds in our top division for league matches, which are played every week.


The idea you can "market" something on and on and on until everyone buys it everywhere loses the real aim which should be to maximise our crowds given our limitations.


This is why we really need clubs like Bradford and Wakefield doing well in Superleague. These have the potential fanbase Salford do not.


We don't sell Superleague to Bradford we sell it to soccer Manchester instead. That's a problem that costs us thousands of customers.

#3122080 Can someone please get rid of the muppets running our game at the RFL!

Posted by The Parksider on 13 May 2015 - 02:12 PM

1. It's mental because it doesn't address our actual problem and simply causes us more. Our issue isn't that the university of Gloucester all golds aren't spending nearly 2m on players. We simply don't have the player pool to justify it. And that's without getting in to all the problems it would actually cause.

2.None of those things actually happened under 1 up 1 down. In fact the opposite happpened


1. We have a player pool that can probably stock 10/11 SL clubs adequately, what's "mental" is we have clubs in SL that can't afford to pay their players full cap. They then can't afford other things given players are the priority. Why shouldn't clubs who have the money be allowed to spend it all the way to Superleague. You fail to say what problems it will create?


2, You do not qualify what your talking about? Clubs with money men were promoted and stayed up Davey at Fartown, Hudgell at HKR, AFAIK these clubs spend the full cap. 


If it's about player pools your back to expanding them, and you can't do this without money and an SL presence which Les Catalans had and it worked for them.


If Toulouse or Newcastle have the money they will follow Les Catalans, if they don't they will follow The Crusaders. I hope you will explain your post properly, I would be grateful for it?

#3120964 Crowdwatch - RL Express declares

Posted by The Parksider on 11 May 2015 - 06:42 AM

Please go follow another sport and continually whinge about that one, over to you.


Please talk about the game and join the debate or go follow another sport and continually have a go at people who support that sport, and not the point of debate because it makes you feel big to be a keyboard warrior from your bedroom HQ like the rest of them above.


Maybe you don't understand the point/debate or don't wan't to as your interest really isn't the game..


As per the excellent posts above the positive way forward for crowds and attendances is to accept the limited appeal our game has and try to maximise that appeal through hard work and careful thought and planning. Effective marketing ploys need to be shared and tried widespread, competitiveness has to be improved on a regular basis, and financial security for all SL clubs achieved. It's not a long list sadly and it's not an easy point of debate as to how to maximise the paying crowds in our game.


Maybe that's why you and fellow bedroom Warriors prefer to just bait people.


But there is no excuse for RFL, Blake Solly and his apologists to just fiddle the figures and then go round claiming crowds are well up so everything is great now. Well done to Wigan for ignoring that and getting on with making the best of their business.


Maybe other clubs aren't doing that because RFL/Solly has given them an excuse not to bother. Anyway I'll stop there as I suspect your not bothered about the debate and are plotting your next cyber attack big man.

#3120312 Can someone please get rid of the muppets running our game at the RFL!

Posted by The Parksider on 10 May 2015 - 10:41 AM

its a nice idea wellsy but its just not sustainable. This whole 2x12 3x8 thing is a massive contraction of the game that has been sold as opening the doors.


Once again it's sold on bigger crowds which has been shown a lie, it's sold on a pathway to the top when in fact all the pathway leads to is struggle at the bottom of SL and relegation back down.


The whole thing has only one real focus for me, the protection of the top clubs.


They get the extra fixtures against each other and they will get their crowds and crowd income increased greatly.


29 clubs can play P & R dreamland whilst the top eight pull away. 

#3120070 Canadian team apply to join Championship 1 (merged threads)

Posted by The Parksider on 09 May 2015 - 09:07 PM

Their lack of fans chased them away if anything


London never lacked fans. You can find some big crowds in their history when they were a good side playing out fixtures against attractive clubs.


10K against Paris, 10K against Wigan 10K against Brisbane Broncos.


Our tiny minded game chased them away salary capping them the same as the M62 mob when the M62 mob knew London would suffer from not being an M62 club all of whom are in the middle of the games major playing pool, and London being 200 miles away only having a fledgling local game.


If a British sport isn't interested in having a London presence then it's a tiny minded sport.

#3119142 Number of Academy Players

Posted by The Parksider on 08 May 2015 - 11:08 AM

Shaun Wane is reported as saying...


"I remember the best Wigan teams of the 80s and 90s had a real strong nucleus of local people and were Wigan lads, where the club means a lot to them. That is what I want again, I want to win a competition with 17 lads that have come through our system."


The report goes on to say that the team that beat KR last weekend contained 10 former Wigan academy players.


I wondered if that was the most for any team on that weekend, and so looked at the 17 for each club and found (not surprisingly) that Leeds and Wigan are both ahead of the rest.


Given that Leeds, Wigan and Saints are the 3 most successful teams of the SL era, it suggests that concentrating on youth development could be a good route to success.


Should other clubs be putting more resources into finding and developing young players than they are at the moment - not just for the good of the game, but for their own success.......



In theory YES of course.


In practice the SL clubs are scouting the junior game incessantly and the top clubs don't sign just "local" players they sign the very best they can from wherever.


Often this means big clubs plucking the best junior stars from under the noses of their SL rivals.


Calder born and bred Robbie Burrow went to Leeds as did Salford area product Kallum Watkins.


So whilst you may think on the face of it some progressive quality SL clubs are signing and developing quality juniors and some lazy useless SL clubs are not and are missing a trick it's not true.


The fact is the quality junior RL player pool is small, too small to provide a British player conveyor of young talent to 12 clubs.


The top clubs like Wire, Saints, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford (as was) Hull (as was) and catalans have/had the money, have/had the success and have/had the attraction any budding young pro wants to sign for them and ignore the lower SL clubs.


And this this leaves Salford trying to buy ready made players, HKR stocking up from overseas, and Wakefield taking on journeymen the other SL clubs no longer want.


The British Junior ARL game is not big enough and does not have enough quality to stock 12 Superleague clubs.

#3115851 Crowdwatch round 13

Posted by The Parksider on 03 May 2015 - 11:22 AM

Think of it as friendly advice Parky. We do NOT need to analyse the crowd figures every week. We never did it before and I don't see why we need to have this pointless debate every week.

Regards, me.


I think it's bad advice to try to dictate to people what they should post, what they should discuss and. how often they should discuss it and when they should discuss it.


It's discourteous and patronising to also assume some sort of mandate to speak on behalf of others unless you adopting a kind of Royal "we".


You should really mind your own business if you don't want to make this thread your business. 

#3115457 Crowdwatch round 13

Posted by The Parksider on 02 May 2015 - 01:21 PM

It's not looking great 



Pretty obvious clubs cant sell themselves



Thursday nights kill crowds Fridays do as well 



Leeds away support seemed to have halved



 It's a long way to travel to watch your team not really turn up


Oh come on, look on the bright side......