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The Parksider

Member Since 06 Oct 2004
Offline Last Active Today, 07:44 AM

#3112432 Crowdwatch Round 12

Posted by The Parksider on Yesterday, 09:07 PM

What are your thoughts?  What would you do if it was in your gift to right the games wrongs and get things moving in a positive direction?


I've been round this one for many years and nigh on 19,000 posts.


It seemed to dawn on me thinking about it long and hard that the professional game itself hasn't grown much from it's 1996 footprint to what we have today.Compare SL 1996 to SL 2015 and it's still largely a one motorway league with token involvement from France.


But despite that we took crowds from 5,540 in 1996 to 9,820 by 2009, so we got our business growth and secured the game through our relationship with SKY.


Since then, when crowds had effectively grown an average of 6% a year, things "topped out". Do we really really really think we could have gone on growing crowds by 6% a year ad infinitum? Especially when the league was roughly the same old clubs, in the same old area, and even moreso when top players started to drift off to play RU and NRL, and the recession bit and SKY seemed to televise more matches making the stay at home with a few cans option more attractive?


"Positive directions" do not go on forever unless you invest in the business and as Padge points out we do not have the money to do that.


For me personally I'd certainly have cut SL to 12 but brought back one up one down P & R. Once again I would not have brought in a failed Swiss soccer system and tried to hype it up, that has been so silly and immature the RFL should resign and let someone with some business sense and a sense of reality come in and run things.


If that was me I'd look to get Bradford back and get something moving in the Calder area. How far I could do that with the vested interests of the other clubs I dunno. The infrastructure of the decent grounds helped increase crowds, I'd want to make Odsal a better ground and support Cas get their ground.


After that all I could hope to do was fine tune things, and make the best of what we have. There can be no magic wand solution or even something that would provide a significant boost in one go. If there were these things then to be Fair to Wood, Rimmer, Solly and Company they would have probably introduced them.


I would not be looking at "Marketing" as the magic wand solution. The World cup showed me the thousands of fans that would like to watch top class RL regularly but don't, know exactly where we are but they choose not to come.


We have captured a lot in our growth 1996-2009 but if we are to capture more we need better players, bigger clubs and better facilities and we seem to have hit a brick wall with that now, so It may be no surprise that crowds are going nowhere.


So some fine tuning, and working towards holding what we have, and using the SKY money to balance the books.


But this potty system and it's pathetic hype, I'd never have done that.

#3111120 Crowdwatch Round 12

Posted by The Parksider on 24 April 2015 - 02:01 PM

Apparently the club did post on Twitter the day after this game with the 4104 figure, so I believe that's the official one. It is reported in a couple of places as such:-






Odd that the 9676 figure was given out. Did the restriction on the crowds at Belle Vue ever get lifted? I thought they were limited to 5000 or so. 



Thanks ever so much for that much appreciated.


I do seem to remember comments on how poor the crowd was and some criticism of saints fans for not turning out!!


I certainly would have remembered a 10,000 crowd - can they even get that in these days as you say. I think it may have gone to 7K

#3107916 Thursday Nights Crowd Killers

Posted by The Parksider on 18 April 2015 - 10:23 AM

Does this statement have a point ? , you are happy , so what's your problem ?


You really do need to speak for yourself not me.


My problem is I want the game to make the best of itself within the real world constraints it has.


I want to see as many RL clubs who can compete with each other as possible at the top end of the game.


If you think there's only four then I want five simple as. 

#3105497 London Broncos new DR partership

Posted by The Parksider on 13 April 2015 - 11:36 AM

Parky what DID get up my nose was the preferential treatment they were awarded and in some eye's should still be at whatever the cost not because of the club but because of it's geographic position,


It is the case that the game will never expand unless additional investment/preferential treatment, call it what we want is provided to expansion areas.


Turn it round and as London said they can't get players along the M62 surplus to the big clubs requirements to go down and play for them.


One man's preferential treatment is another man's evening up the playing field.


One mans "what a waste of money", is another man's "at least we tried". 

#3104797 London Broncos new DR partership

Posted by The Parksider on 12 April 2015 - 09:26 AM

And in reference to your last paragraph, how many development officer's were employed by the RL in London? and how far do you want to go back in that measurement/comparison of what I believe you to mean top class players produced from these areas.




Since Worky and Whitehaven came along we've pumped £Millions of pounds and gallons of sweat into trying to expand our game.


Whether the collapse of London or the Collapse of 137 year old Wakefield I find it all terribly sad.


No real need to point the finger.

#3104692 Crowdwatch round 10

Posted by The Parksider on 12 April 2015 - 07:09 AM

So every minute doesn't matter then? just the ones where Hull are winning or in a relegation battle?


If this isn't a relegation battle, what is the criteria for relegation battle games?


The system isn't providing a situation where every minute matters, its not even providing a situation where more games are mattering. Wakefield have given up and their next 13 weeks mean nothing, and now you are saying that Hull fans wont watch hull because they are mediocre, have had a poor run of performances and aren't involved in any kind of battle for position with a wider meaning, which is exactly what the structure was sold on avoiding.


We didn't need this year to understand that RL fans are not excited by relegation.


We had a whole year that saw crowds at the relegation threatened clubs melt away.


London 906 down to 1,294

Bradford 1,922 down to 6,553


The pathetic excuse was that the games involving these clubs were not "jeopardy" relegation games because they were losing every week and so the low crowds were "excusable".


Yet Wakefield remained "in jeopardy" of joining them winning only two of their opening 11 league games (deja vu) when both London and Bradford had a chance of turning things round.


Crowds at Wakefield dropped through the floor losing 3,600 off their average.


Now Hull are struggling yet again it's turning the fans off with Friday maybe being one of the lowest gates for a league game for many years.


It really is time people just accepted that the RFL/KPMG got it wrong big time and that the "jeopardy" of relegation battles turns the fans off and not on.


To excuse such a ridiculous stance that flew in the face of all previous years experience.........


excuse: "What happened in the past has no relevance to today"


Is merely being an apologist for the RFL 


Wakefield's worst crowd last year was 3,698, and that has been already beaten this year. It doesn't even need it to be "automatic" relegation to turn the fans off..........

#3104355 Crowdwatch round 10

Posted by The Parksider on 11 April 2015 - 12:22 PM

It's the polar opposite of the 1995 model, 


First Div    1995 5543

SLeague   1996 6545


The idea we need to give it time is just an excuse to deflect from the reality that good ideas tend to have a positive reaction pretty quickly.

#3103239 James Webster gives up?

Posted by The Parksider on 09 April 2015 - 10:21 AM

Will post a full reply once off this bus!!!


Is there a traffic jam or has the bus broken down Dave?

#3102028 Crowdwatch week 8

Posted by The Parksider on 07 April 2015 - 08:28 AM

The 'Sporting Life' website has the Cats as 7k as well, so this would probably come from one of the agencies. This keeps happening with the Catalans, anyone got any sensible ideas as to why?


As above they are LIARS I tell thee.

#3098813 Crowdwatch week 8

Posted by The Parksider on 02 April 2015 - 06:10 AM

Here's last years crowds & this


                                          2014    2015

Hull/HKR                         18,103  20,507

Wakefield/Catalans           4,190   3,015

Widnes/Warrington           7,158   7,768

Castleford/Leeds              9,208  11,236

Wigan/Saints                  20,224   24,054

Fartown/Salford               5,689    6,003

#3097367 Crowdwatch week 7

Posted by The Parksider on 30 March 2015 - 01:03 PM

its difficult to see how there can ever be "like for like" comparisons.


I'm just using same fixtures year on year but of course it can't be a 100% comparison.


But bottom line as Padge says can be the aggregate numbers to date and that too shows us that we aren't attracting any more fans so far. Easter crowds like Wigan/Saints, Hull/HKR surely will see big attendances, but they did last Easter, so we shall see.


The media obsessed amongst us may just now get the idea that spouting Public Relations drivel doesn't get fans through the gate. They are too smart to swallow it.


If people think we the fans should support the RFL going round telling us:-


1. We have an exciting new system (when it doesn't excite any new fans) 


2. Crowds are up as a result (based on ONE weeks figures) and that


3. Every game counts now, when it isn't really true with the Championship being a load of dead rubbers and Superleague relegation battles showing no interest.


Then we can't have much pride in our own independence, our true love of the game, and a desire to see the game led by the right people, not the wrong ones who overuse hype in place of good management and don't tell the truth about attendances and competetiveness.


With fans like these acting as patsies and going along with the pretences, and supporting a failed management (Lenegan wants them out) what chance does this game of ours, renowned for it's "Honesty" have?

#3096886 Crowdwatch week 7

Posted by The Parksider on 29 March 2015 - 11:26 AM

Over the two years crowds are more or less identical which given the fuss the RFL made is a bit of a head scratcher.


The slogan is "every game counts" and I am not sure if they do to the point where fans will flock in.


a. At the top every game doesn't count as you can win SL from 4th.?


b. The eight counted before these changes so maybe no change there? 


Unless the effect of not getting in it is what counts more, but


c. The bottom four counts because you can be relegated.


But that did not bring the crowds flocking in to bottom four Hull, Wakefield, London and Bradford last year quite the reverse.


d. The middle 8 play off games will count but will the fans respond?


If any games are crucial to who goes up and who goes down then I guess they will..............

#3096732 Crowdwatch week 7

Posted by The Parksider on 28 March 2015 - 10:23 PM

                          2014       2015

Cas/Hull            9867         8744

HKR/Saints       7611         7311

Wire/Fartown    8777         9019

Wigan/Wakey   11703       10787

Salford/Widnes  3268        3486

Cataland/Leeds 6300        8876


Total                 47,526     48,223


Average 42 games  2014: 8782 2015: 8763


There you go......

#3095496 Are we destroying the Championship?

Posted by The Parksider on 26 March 2015 - 03:23 PM

I don't think parky is saying that kryten.  it would be interesting to know what Mr Davy as thrown at huddersfield to get them where they are today and I bet it hasn't been cheap at all.


What I am saying is at post #426 


The small clubs can't grow because the big clubs hog all the resources and get most of the SKY cash.


Indeed the only way out is a rich man. 

#3093756 Are we destroying the Championship?

Posted by The Parksider on 23 March 2015 - 02:52 PM

No issue , pick your 10 and close the door , fine with me , you'll soon be down to 9 , then 8 , then 7 and so on


Don't be so ridiculous my proposal includes keeping the door open. P & R is clearly in there.


But only for clubs that will enhance the competition.


Nobody can ever get away from the basic truth that we cannot have to businesses chasing the same fans and local players as each other.


As a Leigh fan you can't bring yourself to accept this truth, as a Hunslet fan I have.