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burnleywelshMember Since 21 Dec 2009
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Posted by burnleywelsh on 25 March 2015 - 12:30 PM
Former Scotland rugby union coach Jim Telfer's dismissal of RL after Murrayfield Magic contained one of the classic myths of rugby union:
"Some aspects of rugby league are worth noting such as good passing, angles of running and organised defences but rugby union has far more variety especially in the contesting of possession such as scrums, lineouts and ruck and maul."
Of course, if you don't think that the essence of rugby is passing the ball, running with the ball and tackling the player with the ball, then endless stoppages for the ball being kicked out of play or for set-pieces to formed possibly do offer an attractive form of 'variety'.
But, like beauty, rugby aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. The real problem with Telfer's statement is that the 'contest for possession' in rugby union is essentially a myth.
This is confirmed by a 2005 statistical study - 'Changes in the Playing of International Rugby over a Twenty Year Period' - that compares union international matches played between 1982-4 with those in 2002-4. The report demonstrated that in the 2000s:
13 out of 14 times the side in possession retained the ball at the breakdown.
9 times out of 10 the side in possession retained the ball at the scrum.
8 times out of 10 the side in possession retained the ball at the line-out.
The report's authors conclude that 'the contest for possession is largely predictable if not almost wholly guaranteed'.
It also finds that the 'contest for possession' didn't amount to a huge amount in the 1980s either. Then, the side in possession retained the ball at 88% of scrums, 83% of breakdowns and 58% of line-outs.
Ironically, the report found that in the 1980s, sides with the ball turned it over on average once every six breakdowns - pretty much in line with league's turnover after every six tackles! But in the 2000s, the ball was turned over only once in twenty-three breakdowns, suggesting that possession is more evenly distributed in 'one-dimensional' league than in 'ball-contesting' union.
Typical rugby league propaganda, you might conclude. And indeed it does confirm league criticisms of union rules. So who was the author of this report?
None other than the International Rugby Board.
Now I appreciate that this report is a few years out of date, but I would imagine that now RU players are probably better at retaining possession than they were, the 'contest for possession' is even more predictable.
Posted by burnleywelsh on 19 March 2015 - 07:41 PM
We're talking about Hardaker because this is currently in the news and this is the subject of the thread.
If it was about Gareth Hock...
I think what Hindle means is (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Hardaker is a role model because of his status as an international player and Rhinos first teamer, while the other lad involved is not being talked about.
- brooza likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 11 December 2014 - 11:57 PM
We paid our subscriptions, deducted from pay to the MPAA, and here was a outside organisation telling us what sport we could and couldn't play at our own sports ground.
We decided that to avoid any complications for the Union side we would move our switch our home base to the Bushey Sports Ground in the north of the Met Police District.
i've been on both sides of the League, Union divide and I know which the most honest and accommodating code.
I expect that I will be accused of 'gilding the lily' by some posters on here. Some of our guests think that the discrimination was carried out by individuals that had a particular axe to grind. The discrimination came from the top and it affected the very grass roots.
- Yosser likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 20 November 2014 - 11:51 PM
Absolute garbage. No penalty tries and no pushover tries!!!
Also, why haven't they shown the contenders for the union penalty of the year?
If flopping over the tryline off the back of a maul, or a pushover try, so loved by our union friends are so popular, how come they are never put up for 'Try of the Month/Year' ?? They always seemed to be the odd handling/passing/running score that we see all the time in League.
- Middleton Bull likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 10 October 2014 - 04:16 PM
One reason that Northern Union rugby didn't take off immediately in Wales is that the English Rugby Football Union turned a blind eye to Welsh clubs paying their players (an act known as shamateurism) otherwise they knew that rugby union would be destroyed in working class Wales, which would put a huge dent in the international game. At the time, the Welsh didn't care which organisation they played under because both games had the same rules, but it was obviously far easier to carry on playing against Welsh clubs and to pay their players.
Had the RFU not turned a blind eye then it is likely that Wales would have turned to Northern Union and had the RFU lost rugby in South Wales, and the south west of England, which had close links with the game in Wales, they would have been left controlling a rump primarily based around London.
A key incident was the Arthur Gould affair in 1897. The Welsh rugby international had a testimonial awarded to him in the previous year and was awarded the deeds to his house (but no actual money). The RFU declared Gould a professional and then banned all clubs and players from playing against him. Because of this, in February 1897 the Welsh Rugby Union withdrew from the Rugby Union International Board and was ready to join up with the Northern Union. But by August a compromise was reached as the RFU realised that their control of rugby was at stake. They continued to ignore the payments issue until top player Dai Jones publicly walked out on Aberdare to rejoin his native Treherbert because he wasn‟t getting enough money. Half of the Aberdare committee were banned and formed the Merthyr and later Aberdare Northern Union clubs.
- fieldofclothofgold likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 07 October 2014 - 08:21 PM
And he had a lot to learn.....
7 months for an elderly RU player to master the skills of playing league such that he is picked to play international games.
Gareth Thomas on playing for the Crusaders; "I recently made 17 carries in one game, I felt it the next morning because as a wing in RU you make 17 carries a season. But I love it".
" I've never trained so much in my life".
"And because the training is tougher than in Union I spend a lot of my time in the pool or eating more food trying to put energy back in me".
Brian Noble on Gareth Thomas (British RU Lion, Welsh RU International) ; " He wants to carry the ball a lot but we are going to have to teach him how to do it".
Gareth Thomas on RL; "in union there is a lot of kicking and set plays going on which seem to take ages to play. Whereas in league if you shut down for a few seconds the players are so talented in recognising you are up or out of the line they put the ball up into the air, into a gap and score. It's 80 minutes of working whereas in Union you can rest and have a look into the crowd a lot of the time".
Interesting quote from Noble, British RU Lion being taught how to carry the ball effectively .........
Posted by burnleywelsh on 29 September 2014 - 08:31 PM
So they played games in empty stadiums? And didn't get the Millennium Stadium built?
Yeah, sounds like they really suffered.
Nonetheless, the attitude wasn't 'good luck lads' was it?
Actually in my experience, the attitude was 'good luck lads' from the man in the street, loads of interest in seeing how the lads got on, coach loads travelling up to Warrington, Saints and Widnes. Only the 'committee men' and the few bigots having a go.
- henage likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 02 August 2014 - 08:40 AM
"Cumbria" is really the same word as "Cambria" the Romanised form of "Cymru".
If you knew any of the history of Scotland and Cumberland ( now part of Cumbria), you would know Cumberland, and therefore Workington, was actually part of Scotland at the time of the Domesday Book 1086.
Workington Town will probably have 4 players in the Scotland squad.
Brilliant, home game for both teams
- OttO likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 10 June 2014 - 08:45 AM
The "taking of 10" is a local rule usually used where if they kick for touch they will lose the ball in gardens etc
We were always advised that if taking 10 it should be done in a controlled manner I.e. Ball to ref who advanced the 10 metres and got the line set etc but this isn't in any laws or rules more a case of common sense
Hope this helps
Thanks, "common sense" being the key !!
- LeeF likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 05 March 2014 - 02:59 PM
I don't know what's there to comment other than RU was less dead set against professionalism than the IOC was.
The lift of the ban against RL players was lifted the day professionalism was accepted in RU. Why is that? They could have easily continued to ban Rl players from playing RU if the whole thing was about not accepting RL players rather than not accepting players from a very similar sport that accepts professionalism.
April 1995, National Heritage Committee report on relations between RU and RL finds "the attitude of Rugby Union to Rugby League both discriminatory and indefensible". Yet you continue to to defend RU.
NHC proposes a block on public funding to RU until the sport amends its rules.
- dkw likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 05 March 2014 - 09:09 AM
Anyway the whole thing has been done to death but I suppose some people need a little reminder now and again.
Posted by burnleywelsh on 21 February 2014 - 01:16 AM
Rugby League does not exist in Scotland....End Of
You seem to deny the existence of any RL anywhere other than parts of Lancs, Yorks, Cumbria & Cheshire.
This must be a figment of all those hardworking pioneers imaginations then.
The 2014 season will see two divisions of 4 teams as well as a National Cup compitition.
National League 1:
Aberdeen Warriors 2
Must be part of the same fairy tale as Welsh RL I suppose.
- Pie tries likes this
Posted by burnleywelsh on 15 February 2014 - 05:53 PM
I'd seriously like to know how we're being pampered. We're having no more money than anyone else, far less help due to location and everyone working at the club is doing so alongside other jobs, and therefore busting a gut 12 hours a day, 7 days a week near enough on all of their tasks in life. Not easy, especially as we didn't have a club working in October and November so we're doing four months work in the space of two months. Tell you what, let's just retreat to the north and it can be a parochial game where media and sponsors don't give a monkeys.
You have to face facts CC, there are 'so called supporters' of Rugby League who can't stand the thought of the game being played and enjoyed by people outside 'the heartlands'. In fact, as I've found out, there are huge areas of 'The North' that are Rugby League wastelands. It's not a northern game, it's a game that's played in parts of the north and Wales, The Home Counties, London, The Midlands etc. But, according to some, anyone who gets any, some, very little assistance from whatever quarter is 'being pampered'. Let me tell you, from experience, it is a hell of lot easier being involved in RL in 'The Heartlands' than it is outside this mythical land.
Posted by burnleywelsh on 14 February 2014 - 12:07 AM
We have pampered to South Wales for too Long....in it a Union Land like Widnes is a league land...
We must put a stop to this !! People with funny accents wanting to play Rugby League !! Down with this sort of thing !! Let's put an end to this nonsense. Only those within spitting distance of the M62 should be allowed !!
What a muppet !