ELBOWSEYE

I see the Aussie media give Williams more credibility than his own fans, I also think that Farnworth at FB is a good option allowing Newman to come in at centre. Brimson at 14 covers numerous roles. Farnworth Young Newman Wardle Johnstone Williams Smith Mcmeeken Litten Lees Trout KPP Knowles Brimson Walmsley Smithies Oledzki That's my preference

Well another few hours, Non players who were poor, S Wane, too loyal and his mantra is intimidate the opposition. We failed on all counts. Officials ( though not to blame for the loss) onfield missed two blatant pull backs against the England inside the Australian 20. Goes up for VR when everyone could see Young was taken out. Players Skill level not good enough Missed Radley at 13, Knowles who plays hard has poor handling skills and passes went astray when trying to give Lewis or Williams space to work. Lack of support when half breaks occur( Aussies had loads of support) Although they won at a canter, there were moments we could have put them under pressure ( Johnstone kick, the two pull backs and we are ten points to eight at half time. Besides the work needed on player development at all levels the game over here needs to sort out the ruck areas we constantly have wrestlemania at most PTB the speed is so slow ( if it's dry next week with an Aussie referee they will overrun us) The pathetic attempts to get tangled up in the tackle is widespread.

Just an add on ( I agree with all you stated) the level of top players developing here is down, so players like the Burgess brothers, James Graham,Whitehead and a younger Bateman are not around, we supplemented those players with Chris hill and a younger walmsley, I don't see those talents coming through.

Looking back and judging the standards of the sport in SL and the NRL. The NRL is going from strength to strength, The Kangaroos are not as strong since the push to improve Pacific islands sides. The spine of the roos is as good as spines in the past. But if the push to boost the Pacific islands standards had not happened we would be further away than at any time in history. The standard of SL has dropped and recently we had a group of forwards who helped us compete. We haven't got that same level now. To even compete the development of juniors has to improve and sadly if you are a talented player you need to play in the NRL.

I don't think Welsby is the problem but the quality is not there, the pack is the weakest for quite a few years, I don't believe the Aussies are anywhere near top gear and also the front row would be far better but for players choosing Tonga and Samoa. Even if Welsby was on top form we don't get close.

Okay, I don't watch that level so I have no idea.

Or not good enough.

No but sometimes you have to accept he's dropped a couple of levels ( wether that's injury, playing out of position). His early career he was flying and rightly got the plaudits, this is the flip side.

Look I know you champion Welsby but he has had an indifferent season at best, today was just an extension of his form, I am not quoting who to pick, but Welsby has not hit previous heights this season at all.

Williams was one of the better players, only young and Johnstone and KPP played better, Welsby, waddle, Knowles, Harvard were awful, Lewis struggled but he was behind a beaten pack.

He was poor no matter how you coat it. But he was not on his own.

Definitely not Newlove he was always highly rated. Warrington Kevin Ellis Alan Bateman Bob Jackson

You are right, the British isles is an archipelago of over 6 thousand islands the biggest being Ireland and Britain ( Scotland,Wales and England main lands)

Hopefully all three clubs are successful ,(given time). The league will drop in overall standard but can increase the level if clubs are patient. The decision is made so let's get on with it.

Wouldn't even try with Warrington, no idea what the final squad will be. York being promoted probably means Dufty to York.