Leaderboard

Ian Watson is an outstanding coach, he needs praising for what he has achieved.

Two finals inside twelve months. Not a bad time to be a Salford fan.

Typical, get to a final with no fans present. My heart is pounding

This is why it is right that the final is at Wembley. Salford deserve to play at Wembley, not Headingley or similar.

Only a Richard Agar half time team talk can stop them now.

On the Simple Game thread (https://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php?/topic/355320-simple-game/) it seemed like there was a fair bit of interest in some slightly more in-depth analysis than what is often available. I was thinking some people might find it interesting if I did a series of threads looking at particular stuff where I think typical RL punditry is falling short. I thought it would be a sensible one to start with defensive structure, given this underpins a lot of other concepts. Sometimes people will talk on Sky about teams getting their numbers wrong. Obviously this implies there is a 'right' way to number up. Generally, teams no longer defend man on man, because a 1 v 1 is actually a good result for the attack, especially if there is a lot of space. A good example of this is the first try here, where the Titans have a 4 and 2 split from the scrum, it's a 2 v 2 on the short side with Roger Tuivasa-Sheck getting the ball and scoring because the defender has too much space to cover. So how do teams number up if not man on man? It's generally to do with proportions of the pitch. Assuming 2 markers and a fullback, the defending team will have 10 players in the line. How these are divided between the sides of the play the ball is referred to as the 'split'. If the PTB is in the middle of the pitch (width-wise) i.e. the 50%, a team will have 50% of their defenders on either side, i.e. a 5 and 5 split. If the PTB is a metre or two outside the left post i.e. the 40%, a team will have 40% of their defenders on the short-side, i.e. a 4 and 6 split. At the left scrum line i.e. the 30%, a 3 and 7 split, and at the left tap line i.e. the 20%, a 2 and 8 split. If you get to say the 25%, there's a bit of a judgement call, but teams will normally go with the extra defender on the short-side rather than the long-side. This is because a 3 v 2 is easier to execute than a 9 v 8. These splits are rules of thumb rather than unbreakable rules, so for example if a team puts 8 attackers on one side from the 50%, you might put 6 defenders on that side, but you wouldn't put 8 defenders there because then you've a 3 on 3 in ~34 metres of space on the other side. This all generally holds when teams are defending in their own half - when a team is coming out of their own half, the defending team may stack in tighter to put numbers into the tackle. This defensive organisation will be dominated by the fullback, with him counting numbers on every tackle in order to tell the defenders retreating from the tackle where to go. If you watch the first try from yesterday's game, the first play Panthers get their numbers right with a 5 and 5 split. Cordner gets a quick PTB at 25%, Panthers end up with 2 on the short side and they have too much space to defend as a result: If we go to Tedesco's try in the same game, shown below, there is another example. There's a defender left on the floor and the PTB is at the 40%. Panthers have gone with a 4 and 5 split rather than give the Roosters the overlap on the short-side. The fullback is at A-defender on the long-side but because he gets there late, the wider defenders are a metre or two narrower than they need to be as a result, Kikau and Luai in particular. Kikau gets beaten on the outside as a result. So how can teams take advantage of this? First of all, teams have to be able to count numbers and use that to decide which side to attack - this is generally going to be the responsibility of your spine players. This is why commentary about how players can no longer play what they see is misguided - players have to do it more than ever. Another thing to consider is aiming to attack particular defenders on one play and then get them on the short-side the following play. A really good example of this is the first try below. If you pause it one second in, you'll see that Parramatta are stacked in pretty tight, have no defenders in the furthest 30% of the field, and only have 3 defenders in the furthest 50%. Due to this, the Knights 6 is able to get between the defending centre and halfback, and also gets a relatively quick PTB. One defender manages to work across despite this, the Eels second-rower, but there's a 3 v 2 on the short-side and the Knights are good enough to execute. Even if this was a 3 v 3, the Knights would have likely still gone short-side - the fact that the centre and halfback make the tackle mean you would have a middle player defending on the short-side, and generally this is more space and speed than they are comfortable with. The important thing to say here is a lot of stuff like this is not 'good' or 'bad', it just is. Stacking in tight cost Parramatta that first try, but it also may have enabled them to slow down more PTBs by putting more numbers into the tackle, especially if a team was less willing to move the ball in their own half. One way teams can try and salvage getting their numbers wrong is with the fullback joining the line as an extra defender (usually at long-side A defender i.e. the one stood closest to the ruck without being a marker). Teams will generally do this in their own 10, but usually the fullback doesn't lift with the rest of the line, he just covers a space that allows the other defenders to start wider. You'll see here an example of Wests' fullback getting it wrong - he stands at B defender so has to lift with the line and Mitch Moses is good enough to spot this and attack accordingly: Sometimes the fullback will (or perhaps should) depart from this - for example if he has to cover for an overlap on the short-side, if he gets caught in the tackle, or if there is a dominant halfback on the short-side. In this example below, you've got no halfback on the long-side, then a halfback and fullback on the short-side. RTS is on the long-side and Titans score as a result. Hopefully people find this interesting and informative! Happy to talk through anything in further detail or answer any questions.

Chuffed to little bits!

While you're at it switch your internet off.

You have covered a lot of ground in that post.

Welcome. 100 posts seems a long way off

Delighted for Salford. Ian Watson has done an amazing job.

If somebody put Leeds United on my radio I'd turn the sound off too.

You mistyped that first word

At some point you have to stop listening and just tell em to shut up. A well known Australian player told me on the pitch years ago “I will have my say and you will listen to me” I told him he could shut up on the pitch or off it and he had seconds to decide which it was to be.

I know. The amount of intricate carpentry that goes into perfecting them, and some reckless geezer slides through it without any respect.

Remember folks, no matter how this game pans out, Jake Mamo for Man of the Match. You know it makes sense.

i would hate to go for a meal with ben thaler- how long would it take him to decide what to have? "show me the desert menu again" "now show the mains menu from a different angle"

May as well just hand it to Union now...

Toulouse are currently a much better bet for SL than TWP.

Indeed , I am sick of reading how nasty , stupid and greedy our club owners are supposed to be , by people who haven't been clever , brave or generous enough in their financial dealings to support a RL club , for both the benefit of the support base and local community but also the greater ' sport '

Toulouse are more likely to have decent crowds back next year than M62 clubs, to be fair. They have solid financial backing, a top notch ground, decent squad with juniors and they already pay travel costs. They tick plenty of boxes.

There won't necessarily be no fans present. The club just needs to arrange a grouse shoot inside Wembley Stadium on the morning of the final.

You wouldn't be pulling our legs would you Gigot?

Well, that was a great game to watch and what a win for Salford. I was willing them on first to score the winning try and then to hold on for a win. I ended up on the edge of my seat! Fantastic result for Salford and as others have said, such a damn shame the fans cannot be there to enjoy the final. I'll be one of many I'm sure rooting for Salford at Wembley!

Might struggle to do that this year!

If I wanted to be picky, 1986 was the last time none of Leeds, Saints, Wigan or Warrington weren’t in the final.

That's the problem with modern rugby league. It's just the same old names over and over again.

Good point, I'll update my post

luke robinson comes over as a nice enough likable lad but he has no place in the commentary box in bbc national coverage matches- someone give him a voice tablet

That's unfair. Showing Kevin Brown putting players in for tries against Hull FC greatly undervalues his ability.

Credit to Leeds though. Their desire meant any team not quite at the races was going to struggle.

Fev win as a percentage of population.

To be honest, I agree. I don't see how play could go on when the team with advantage has committed an offence. Should have stopped and gone back to the first offence. I'd be annoyed if that try was conceded against us.

Who the #### was Ash Handly celebrating to in the stand?

When does your certificate come through? Have you been appointed to a game yet?

You can't say that!!!!!

Have you watched any without rose tinted specs?

No penalty was given so no foul play , tackle was being made and the ref blew the whistle ? So however tough if it’s not a pen it’s an error

Full page of rugby league in the Sun. The Times has a piece. The Mirror, of course. Haven’t looked if the other newspapers have coverage. Best of all, both games are live on the national broadcaster!

Some, there is too much of it to turn all of it to diamonds!

You and Wiganermike make some valid points. For me, if the clubs decide not to re-admit TWP then the share of the TV money that would have been allocated to the 12th team should not be divvied out amongst the other 11 clubs. I would prefer that the money was directed to local clubs to help promote themselves In their community.

Hi, I can't speak for how the other clubs are feeling but I would guess they are happy with everything at present. Things have been quiet on the organisers social media but that is because there has been loads of work going on in the background. You may have also noticed that our social media has been very quiet this last month as we were doing a lot of work behind the scenes with WRL and COVID protocols. What I can say is that we have spoken with the organisers every week and have had been kept up to date with whats going on. A lot of the work is nearly done so I expect you'll start to see more comms from them in the near future. As for us, there is no Rugby League activity (training, matches, etc.) in Wales until Dec 1st when the next review will be so you'll see less comms from us on social media as we continue to work behind the scenes to ensure our players are staying fit and healthy both mentaly and physical and also whilst we continue to do a lot of work around getting ready for the Euro's. We are hoping to have a big announcement about the club in the next few months (not Euro related) but we won't be ready to publish anything until it is all finalised.

Come on Salford, you can do it, almost there!

fortunate and lucky in terrible conditions - no skill or effort needed

Watkins has scored, where's graveyard Johnny?

Unnecessary knees from Handley.

That’s because our big signings were a crock with a dodgy hip and a Cas reject who couldn’t cut it in the championship with Leigh !!

I'm just worried that TRL's Warrington fans will wear out their keyboards before their own match starts.

I'm now watching the first game I've watched since Oldham played at Whitehaven at the beginning of the season. I can't get my head around the empty stadium. It's mad, I hope we can get back to normal soon, only time will tell. May the best team win.

To me, Toulouse is a no-brainer. Fish where the fish are.