Chris22

When English people pronounce "defence" as "Dee-fense" The way Australians say the word maroon. Whenever any social media team tweets a picture of a player and captions it with their initials and squad number.

This isn't a dig, but if Wakefield or London (2019) were allowed in Super League, Batley will be too.

Agreed. Didn't like that at all.

Leeds and Saints both had absentees going into this match. But Leeds had more players out and less depth to replace them. I thought before the match that Saints would need an off day to lose and they didn't have one. Lomax was masterful and Lees has stood up in Walmsley's absence. I never felt worried during the game and thought we were comfortable. Thinking about it a bit more, it could have been closer. Saints scrambled to keep out Sutcliffe and Martin when they both would have scored against worse defences. Leeds let in a really soft score to Hurrell. Little moments that kept a gap between the sides. Leeds were dogged and never gave up. I do wonder if Hardaker at full back and Myler at scrum half was a better option though. A nice touch by the likes of Rohan Smith and Blake Austin who applauded the Saints crowd as they left the field. Didn't go unnoticed. This is unquestionably the most ruthless Saints side I've ever seen. If an opponent switches off or makes an error, it is usually punished. Sometimes that ruthlessness manifests itself in ways I don't like too. We've been spoiled over the last 4 years and I hope our fans realise and don't take periods like these for granted.

Four in a row or the side 11th after 10 rounds, whatever the result it's a hell of an achievement by the winner. From a Saints perspective, I'm unusually relaxed about the match. If we lose, we know all good things come to an end and streaks can't last forever. It doesn't take away from this team's incredible achievements over the last few years. If we win, then wow! Only one other side will have ever achieved this in the UK game. Hoping for a good game where we are all talking about the players after it. Maybe that's too ambitious for rugby league fans.

I saw a reference on Twitter earlier that the captain's challenge will be in the World Cup - first I'd heard of this?

I'm calling that he pulls up in the warm up.

A handy insight, especially given the RFL's failure to publish minutes.

I agree with this. I don't think not accepting a penalty charge notice should equate to an appeal, with punishment for not accepting the charge. The RFL do publish detailed guidance and I do accept that a degree of inconsistency is unavoidable. But something has gone wrong here. I wonder if getting rid of the penalty notice system is better, so that teams can at least present a case without fear or favour is better.

In light of tonight's news and the likelihood that Hopoate will play, I'd expect us to line up like this: Hopoate, Makinson, Hurrell, Mata'utai, Percival, Welsby, Lomax, Lees, Roby, Paasi, Batchelor, Sironen, Knowles Subs: Lussick, LMS, Wingfield, Bell It's very harsh on Bennison but I think it would be the right call for him to drop out. I'd be really confident with him at full back, but Hopoate offers more in attack. I'd be a bit more concerned with him on the wing, especially one-on-one defence. We have a couple out but this will be the strongest squad we've named since probably Good Friday. Leeds' absentees are more disruptive to them. I do expect us to win the match, and if we play near our best, we will. But this is 80 minutes of rugby and anything can happen.

Having considered this a bit more thoroughly, I'm still struggling to get my head around this. From Saints' perspective, it is in our interests to have as many players as possible available for the Grand Final. With internationals counting towards bans, there was no disincentive to Saints appealing. Any additional 'frivolous' related suspension would only impact England. This placed the RFL in a position where there was a conflict of interest given that it is responsible for the national team. Similarly, there was nothing to lose with the second appeal. Saints haven't done anything 'wrong', as such. We are entitled to appeal a suspension, as is any team. But the balance of risk was lessened due to internationals counting towards suspensions. Despite Saints doing nothing illegally here, it does sit a little uncomfortably with me as a fan of the club. I know many will scoff at this, but we are a well-run club and I have always had a degree of pride in the way we have conducted ourselves off the field, certainly in more recent years. The exception being McManus' comments following the 2019 Challenge Cup Final. We got some tough calls from the ref that day, but that's life. We weren't good enough to win. For example, Woolf has publicly backed the RFL's harsher disciplinary approach all year. When Sironen got banned for a soft shoulder charge against Wakefield, he backed the decision, saying he understood the need for the RFL to protect players. Same for Mata'utai's suspension for lifting the collar of a potentially injured Danny Levi. And that gave me pride that we do things the right way. Although I back the rights of a club to challenge a suspension, this just doesn't feel right when, in my view, Knowles' actions placed a player in a potentially dangerous situation and posed the risk of a nasty injury. I've avoided the need for calls for reform of the disciplinary system, but every week there seems to be a circus surrounding suspensions. This has been unbecoming for the sport and an unwelcome distraction ahead of the Grand Final, culminating in a second tribunal repudiating the view of the referee, match review panel and first tribunal in one fell swoop. That is indicative that something isn't right at all. Players must be protected from injury and that should be the centre of this, but some of the decisions reached and how they vary so wildly throughout the season suggests we need a rethink.

That's unbelievable.

I believe the top tier of the West and East stands are primarily for community clubs and organisations, so that's probably why few are free via the RFL or clubs.

Who would you have selected?

I think what is easily forgotten is that Croft has a very ordinary if not poor start to the season. It was from about May that he started to show his class. Obviously in the second half of the season, he has been outstanding and, whilst we'll never know, if he and Ackers played on Saturday may have got Salford back to the Grand Final.

There was a strong case for any of the nominees to have won, or even Ian Watson or Rohan Smith. An excellent first year from Peet, not just in his coaching but in the way he conducts himself too.

I doubt we're in a position where nearly all seats will be sold out with huge gaps in terraced spaces, especially as that is cheaper. Given we're just under a month from that fixture, I'd guess it will sell out or be very close to doing so.

I'd say that was quite accurate (and also fair). Saints have nothing to lose by appealing. The best case is that the ban is overturned and Knowles plays. The worst case is that Knowles gets an extra match, served for England. This highlights the absurdity of the RFL applying suspensions incurred domestically to internationals. It's a conflict of interest for potential England internationals such as Knowles and Bateman and also unfair on players like Dudson, who has been banned for playing for Wales for the World Cup by the English governing body.

Two games for Knowles, zero for Welsby according to John Davidson.

Here is that tackle. I'm not convinced that Welsby's head contact (if there was any) is anywhere near as forceful as this. I've looket at the sentencing guidance. Aggravating factors are: Previous Record, Violence, Retaliation, Injury caused an Incident not part of play. I don't believe any apply. Mitigating factors are: Previous Good Record, provocation, technique or Fitness in some cases, Genuine Remorse. Welsby has a good record. Where a tackle is deemed careless and the ball carrier dips, that is either a grade a or b. A would carry no ban, B would. If it is deemed reckless, then it would be at least a grade b and a ban would follow. The disciplinary process is so subjective, inconsistency is inevitable. Where is the line between careless and reckless? I'd be surprised to see a ban.

This is what I think will happen. Knowles will get banned for two matches. Saints will appeal (because there's nothing to lose in doing so). It will not be deemed frivolous, which of course will have nothing to do with the fact that 3+ matches will see him miss a World Cup match. This will highlight the ridiculous nature of club bans carrying to internationals. Welsby will get nothing. Fans will be in uproar regardless of what happens. The Saints appeal of Knowles' ban will especially boil blood.

Saw it mentioned on thus thread earlier, but wonder if Salford made an error in not kicking the penalty after the Makinson sin bin. Reduces the score to 5, with 5 to go and a man advantage?

Having seen the incidents back, really foolish play by Knowles. No advantage to gain by his actions. I expect a ban and we can have no complaints. I've watched the Welsby tackle and struggle to establish the point of contact (I have watched on a phone admittedly), but think he'll be OK. As for the penalty try incident, the ball was rolling at quite a pace rather than bouncing and bobbling. In my view, Lafai wouldn't have got to the ball and the decision was correct. That's the most subjective of calls though as there's no question it would have been close. I don't think anyone can say with certainty whether he would have scored or not. Given the wording of the law, it's very much a matter of opinion. And there's a good argument for either opinion.

12,357 for Saints.

I was surprised to see at the vote on the top of this thread that more believed that Salford would win than St Helens. There's been a lot of talking down of St Helens chances, led primarily by our own fans and I struggled to understand why. We have been the best team this season and the last time I believe that we played poorly in a knockout match was the Challenge Cup Final of 2019. We've lost two knockout matches in that time, by 2 points on each occasion. It takes a monster effort to beat this side in a big match. Salford have been playing wonderfully and certainly had a chance, but it was going to be difficult for them. Especially without Brodie Croft. And with Ackers failing a HIA within one minute, that robbed Salford of not only two of their best players but a player to rotate too. The game went exactly as I expected really. A very tough encounter with little to split the sides. I thought Salford were magnificent as were Saints. For us, Lomax was sublime and his short kicking game outstanding (not to mention an important and well executed drop goal). I'm interested to see some of the contentious incidents back. I couldn't really see the Knowles incident too well, I sincerely hope Welsby got that tackle on Atkin low enough because if not he's in bother and of course the Makinson sin bin. I was shocked that Kendall chose not to go to the video referee, or at least take a moment to compose himself before making the call. He looked rushed and often that's when errors occur. My hunch was that the ball was pretty much dead by the time of the pull back and a penalty with sin bin was the correct call, but I'd have to see a replay to check. Looking forward to next weekend!