Australia vs Tonga in Hawaii

[The Great Dane]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

You could not be more wrong if you tried.

The 16 NRL clubs, the NSWRL, and the QRL are all members of the ARLC. Of which David Smith was CEO, John Grant was CEO and is Chairman.

It is quite literally their job to act as the representatives of Australian Rugby league at the RLIF and they are charged by the NRL clubs, by the NSWRL and by the QRL to Organise and conduct all Australian Rep games, and Liaise with the RLIF in the fostering and control of the game of Rugby League throughout the world 

In the ARLC Constitution it states.

The primary objects of the Company are to:

(d) organise and conduct all State of Origin and Australian Representative Games

(g) liaise with the Rugby League International Federation Limited and organisations controlling the game in other countries in the fostering and control of the game of Rugby League throughout the world.   

 

Wrong again, those dot points aren't from the ARLC constitution they're from a media package given out in 2012 and they are massively out of date- http://www.rugbyleague.com.au/commission/leaguestructure.html.

You are however right though that in Theory the ARLC was supposed to do all sorts of things (such as organise rep games and liaise with the RLIF), however in practice they have failed to get the results that they have set out to achieve in almost everything from setting the salary cap and the size of club grants to organising international scheduled for the Roos, and have always capitulated to the clubs or the RLPA's demands.

It's got so bad now that they aren't even independent anymore when the whole reason that they were started up was that they would be independent of the clubs and state bodies.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/australian-rugby-league-commission-set-for-historic-overhaul-as-agreement-reached-20171109-gzie7r.html

Quote

Under the new arrangement, the ARLC will comprise six "independent" directors, two representing the 16 NRL clubs and two from the states, NSW and Queensland.

The constitution was changed again to allow the Commission to no longer be independent, and it's been changed so many times that who knows what it actually says anymore and exactly who has what responsibilities.

Look mate you've got no clue about the lay of the land down here, nor would I expect you to, but things simply aren't how you think they are, they were supposed to be how you think they are, but they aren't, and in all honesty it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon and you've got no clue what you are talking about when it comes to how the game is run down here. 

[Kayakman]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Look mate you've got no clue about the lay of the land down here, nor would I expect you to, but things simply aren't how you think they are, they were supposed to be how you think they are, but they aren't, and in all honesty it doesn't look like that is going to change anytime soon and you've got no clue what you are talking about when it comes to how the game is run down here. 

After we finish with everyone up here  we will be sending the Pack down under to go rabbit hunting...we'll use the Raiders as a warmup to stretch our legs.

"Hunting With The Pack"

[The Great Dane]

58 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

After we finish with everyone up here  we will be sending the Pack down under to go rabbit hunting...we'll use the Raiders as a warmup to stretch our legs.

"Hunting With The Pack"

Going by recent standings you should probably use the Rabbitohs as a warm up for us and not the other way around.

BTW a Rabbitoh is a rabbit hunter not a rabbit, so you probably need a picture of a wolf carrying a hunter around in his mouth. 

[Kayakman]

14 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Going by recent standings you should probably use the Rabbitohs as a warm up for us and not the other way around.

BTW a Rabbitoh is a rabbit hunter not a rabbit, so you probably need a picture of a wolf carrying a hunter around in his mouth. 

Either way the result is the same: 2-0 for the Wolfpack...you poor soul, you haven't been around a Wolfpack obviously, we will hunt the rabbit and the hunter of the rabbit!   Its just 'all prey' to us-a fatal error of judgement that has oft been repeated in the past...ahhh the innocence!  Your hunter IS in the picture...hes in our belly!

Open that door and let us in....of course we won't hurt ya...no we are very friendly....we just want to talk and maybe get a pet?....BAM!  we are in boys, take everything!

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Either way the result is the same: 2-0 for the Wolfpack...you poor soul, you haven't been around a Wolfpack obviously, we will hunt the rabbit and the hunter of the rabbit!   Its just 'all prey' to us-a fatal error of judgement that has oft been repeated in the past...ahhh the innocence!  Your hunter IS in the picture...hes in our belly!

Open that door and let us in....of course we won't hurt ya...no we are very friendly....we just want to talk and maybe get a pet?....BAM!  we are in boys, take everything!

Oh the innocence of youth... And I do love your enthusiasm.

As I said earlier I'm sure that the door is open and I'm sure that the club would invite the WP in, so if you think that you can convince Perez to take his team on a trip "down under" then I'm sure Donny and Ricky would be very welcoming, and that they wouldn't be the only ones that are welcoming.

How much if any NRL/Australian RL have you watched? Just curious.

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Your 1st link shows the ARLC constitution showing its powers and responsibility to the international game.

No it doesn't, it shows a dot point summery of what the constitution contains from a media package released in 2012.

The original constitution was made public but I can't find it anymore, and even if I could it's out of date anyway, and as far as I know no newer version of the constitution has been made public. 

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Your second talks about constitutional change in the make up of the board, not the boards responisibilities.

I never said that that article did talk about changes to the commissions responsibilities, only that the ARLC isn't independent anymore and that the clubs will be represented on the commission, that the constitution has been changed multiple times so god knows what it actually says and what responsibilities are within it and whom it gives them to, and that the article holds one example of the constitution being changed.

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

Your nonsense sophistry aside, however many circles you want to talk yourself in, however much you want to argue that the members of the NRL/ARLC who are also members of the RLIF cannot agree to RLIF programs on behalf of the NRL/ARLC there is a massive, huge, obvious hole in your argument. 

They can, and did.

Fine, prove it.

You keep asserting that this is the case without providing any evidence, you just assume that it is the case cause x and y are members of the ARLC and/or NRL and the RLIF, but those people in of themselves as individuals don't have the power to unilaterally make decisions for the ARLC or NRL (just as I imagine that Nigel Wood doesn't have absolute power at the RFL or SL), they are members of the ARLC and NRL, not the dictators/rulers of the ARLC and NRL, at the very least they'd have to get approval from the rest of the ARLC, which unless they were all in agreement about it (they're never all in agreement with anything) would mean a vote, a vote that doesn't seem to have happened at any of the ARLC meetings so far as I can ascertain (not saying it didn't happen, only that if it did I can't find when or where it happened), so far as I can ascertain they haven't even discussed it at all (not saying that they haven't discussed it, only that so far as I can tell they haven't), and if they had discussed it or held a vote on it it would have been publicised in the media down here which also hasn't happened (so if you are correct this is the first case in Australian RL history where such a decision hasn't attracted large amounts of interest from either the public or the media, that seems incredibly unlikely to me).

The biggest sign that things aren't how you think they is that the RLPA say they weren't informed and that they weren't give the chance to consult about it, and that just isn't how the game works down here, this window necessarily means more games for the players and that leads to other concerns about fatigue, travel, and health concerns, etc, such an idea would have to be discussed with the RLPA (you do realise what the RLPA is right, it's the player union) and would have to get their approval before it went ahead, and again they say that didn't happen.

Look I don't know whats happened, obviously the RLIF thinks they've organised this window and obviously the NRL doesn't recognise it (if they did the Denver game would be going ahead), why that is or how the game has managed to get ourselves to that point I don't know, but it's obvious from the situation at hand that you are wrong about the NRL recognising the window, and honestly I can't be bothered talking about it with you anymore.

[The Great Dane]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

1. Then why are you assuming it has changed? If there is no evidence of a change, why assume it has

2. Then why are you saying it is out of date? If there is no new constitution, how can the old one be out of date.

3. More ridiculous sophistry. It has been proved to you many times. Frankly pretending that the 3 australian members of the RLIF arent there to promote the Australian interests is just embarrassing. The idea that the Australian clubs and RLPA need direct representation on the RLIF over and above their own appointed representatives is beyond silly.

 

I provided you with an example of where the constitution has changed, it's changed multiple times, so there is an amended constitution floating around somewhere, and the dot points that you have provided (which again aren't the actual constitution just a summery of it's contents) may or may not be out of date on a case by case basis, I don't know cause no version of the constitution is public so we don't know exactly what it says... 

I never said that the Australian members of the RLIF aren't there to promote Australian interests, only that they don't have the power to unilaterally decide what those interests are without input from the rest of the ARLC/NRL structure.

Finally I never suggested that the Australian clubs or the RLPA need direct representation on the RLIF, however they are part of the organism that makes up the NRL, and decisions about the game that concern them are made with their input, for the ARLC to agree with an international window they would need agreement from the NRL clubs and the RLPA before they could agree to something like this otherwise they'd stir up open revolt and would lose their jobs (just like David Smith did by the way), according to them that never happened, so if that never happened their representatives at the RLIF where never in a position to agree to the "international window" in the first place even if they did so (which nobody has been able to prove that they did anyway), because again the people at the RLIF are the representatives of Australian RL not the dictators of Australian RL.

The whole discussion is redundant anyway cause you're obviously wrong and the NRL obviously doesn't recognise the international window, if they did then the Denver game would have gone ahead...  

[The Great Dane]

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

1. As you admitted in the previous post. You should where the make up of the board had changed, not the primary objectives of the company,

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/australian-rugby-league-commission-set-for-historic-overhaul-as-agreement-reached-20171109-gzie7r.html

Quote

The Australian Rugby League Commission will undergo the most radical change since its inception after agreement was finally reached on constitutional reform.

That is not the only time that the constitution has been reformed, it's only the biggest reform.

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

2. They have input from the rest of the ARLC/NRL structure. The ARLC/NRL structure put 2 ex-NRL CEOs, the ARLC chairman and Andrew Hill on the Board of the RLIF, including the the Deputy Chairman and Secretary of the RLIF.

These people do not represent all the different parts of the NRL structure, most specifically they do not represent either the clubs or the RLPA, whom have both been trying to get these people out of power for a some time (they successfully got rid of D Smith) and have both been pushing for places on the ARLC because of it (the NRL clubs have successfully got places on the ARLC).

5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

3. The ARLC did agree to the international window. Their representatives voted it through and internationals will be played on that date remember. 

Do you have any proof of that?

Seriously can you show me the vote, cause there're 12 members of the RLIF board, only three of them are connected to the NRL, it's very possible that they protested and were out voted, and frankly the RLIF doesn't have the power to force the NRL to do anything.

Cause it's quite possible that it got through despite them voting against it, for all we know it's also quite possible that it got through without a vote and was made without their knowledge. 

BTW David Smith isn't part of the RLIF board anymore, Todd Greenberg took his place.

Look I get it, you want to blame everything on the Aussies and take no responsibility for yourself/the institutions that you deem to represent you, but nothing is that black and white, and their is always two sides to a story...

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

1. Yes, we have been through this. A change in the constitution doesnt mean everything in the constitution changed, just you know, the bits that changed.

One of the bits you have admitted there exists no evidence of change is its primary objectives. In fact the only information you can find tell us the primary objectives have stayed the same.

That is what we are talking about, the primary objectives included within the constitution. The ones you provided earlier but have decided have changed but provided no evidence for.

We don't know what the "primary objectives" are, it's so long since I read it that I couldn't tell you exactly what was in it or exactly what the primary objectives were apart from the fact that the ARLC was to be the independent governing body of the sport in this country, and you obviously have never read it so you wouldn't have a clue anyway...

So if we don't know what the main tenants of the constitution are or what amendments have been made to the constitution in the time since one of us read it anyway how can we possibly know what power it actually grants and to whom it grants it at all, let alone what it actually says anymore.

Also that amendment that allows the clubs to sit on the ARLC has fundamentally changed the whole purpose of the ARLC, its removed the founding principle of the ARLC, which was to be an independent governing body of the sport in this country that wasn't directly influenced by any of the individual constituencies (such as the NRL, the clubs, the NSWRL, QRL, etc), so to use your terminology it's changed the "primary objective" of the ARLC, the whole reason of it's existence is no more so who knows what else has been changed.

But of course you'd know that if you knew anything about Australian RL or how it's administered...

1 hour ago, scotchy1 said:

2. At the RLIF they do. Happy to help

Yeah and the Ambassador to Spain represents Australia in the countries dealings with them, that doesn't mean that he/she gets to make unilateral decisions for the Australian government when it comes to those dealings though. 

Quote

3. Yes, the existence of the RLIF confirmation which has been provided to you many, many times.

4. Thems the rules the ARLC and NRL have signed up to in when they decided to become members of the RLIF

5. So what you are saying is that the CEO of the NRL was part of the decision-making process that resulted in the RLIF instituting this decision? Well im glad we got that sorted. 

This is all just disingenuous BS, in fact pretty much everything you've brought up is disingenuous BS.

[Kayakman]

On 1/1/2018 at 8:48 AM, The Great Dane said:

Oh the innocence of youth... And I do love your enthusiasm.

As I said earlier I'm sure that the door is open and I'm sure that the club would invite the WP in, so if you think that you can convince Perez to take his team on a trip "down under" then I'm sure Donny and Ricky would be very welcoming, and that they wouldn't be the only ones that are welcoming.

How much if any NRL/Australian RL have you watched? Just curious.

Zero...but I've seen some highlights...but you got me all wrong... this invite thing ALL WRONG!

We are the Wolfpack!...we just show up, go where we want, take over, no invite necessary...just another successful hunting excursion for us...the Wolfpack doesn't ask, it tells.  

[The Great Dane]

4 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Zero...but I've seen some highlights...but you got me all wrong... this invite thing ALL WRONG!

We are the Wolfpack!...we just show up, go where we want, take over, no invite necessary...just another successful hunting excursion for us...the Wolfpack doesn't ask, it tells.  

You should get your paws on some, not only would you enjoy it you'd learn a great deal about the game as well. 

After watching a few games you'd realise that you're trying to bring a knife to a nuke fight, and that there's a reason why your club is paying massive overs for Aussie players with NRL experience like McCrone (ex-Raiders junior and played the majority of his career here) and Taylor (ex-Raider, he played last season here, the club basically gave him the opportunity to save his career and he took it and ran with it, was one of the best stories to come out of Canberra last year).

So yeah, you should really watch some NRL and/or SOO and Roos games, there's so much to learn about the game, so many different styles of play, tactics, history, great players, great teams, great moments, so, so much all of which could teach you heaps about the game and how it's played, and the best way to learn about it all is to watch it, watch as much of it from as many different parts of the world and from as many different competitions as possible, and not only Australian stuff either, you should try to watch as much footy as you can possibly take in each week from as many different parts of the world as possible, if you're interested of course.

[Copa]

4 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Zero...but I've seen some highlights...but you got me all wrong... this invite thing ALL WRONG!

We are the Wolfpack!...we just show up, go where we want, take over, no invite necessary...just another successful hunting excursion for us...the Wolfpack doesn't ask, it tells.  

They should come on down and play the Raiders (aka the Green Machine). We will make them very welcome. We’ll even give them a special round of applause.

 

[Kayakman]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

You should get your paws on some, not only would you enjoy it you'd learn a great deal about the game as well. 

After watching a few games you'd realise that you're trying to bring a knife to a nuke fight, and that there's a reason why your club is paying massive overs for Aussie players with NRL experience like McCrone (ex-Raiders junior and played the majority of his career here) and Taylor (ex-Raider, he played last season here, the club basically gave him the opportunity to save his career and he took it and ran with it, was one of the best stories to come out of Canberra last year).

So yeah, you should really watch some NRL and/or SOO and Roos games, there's so much to learn about the game, so many different styles of play, tactics, history, great players, great teams, great moments, so, so much all of which could teach you heaps about the game and how it's played, and the best way to learn about it all is to watch it, watch as much of it from as many different parts of the world and from as many different competitions as possible, and not only Australian stuff either, you should try to watch as much footy as you can possibly take in each week from as many different parts of the world as possible, if you're interested of course.

Okay...let me get this straight, are you trying to tell  me that the NRL is better than Superleague...you gotta watch out for vested interest Young Ragnar...step back and see the truth...if what you say was the truth then why is the World Club Championship held by an English team?...is that not the real 'litnus test'?

You should watch how Toronto plays and does things....be willing to learn Ragnar...beopen to new ways...the TWP is the beserker!

[Kayakman]

5 hours ago, Copa said:

They should come on down and play the Raiders (aka the Green Machine). We will make them very welcome. We’ll even give them a special round of applause.

 

After all the TWP has overcome we deserve such a welcome AND MORE!

[The Great Dane]

2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Okay...let me get this straight, are you trying to tell  me that the NRL is better than Superleague...you gotta watch out for vested interest Young Ragnar...step back and see the truth...if what you say was the truth then why is the World Club Championship held by an English team?...is that not the real 'litnus test'?

Simply cause the NRL clubs treat it as a trial game and the SL clubs treat it as a coveted trophy.

It's played before the NRL season starts and is almost always played in England (it's been played in Aus twice in 20 or so years if you count this year), and takes one of the clubs opportunities for a trial game, so traditionally the clubs have used it as a holiday bonding experience and trial game in their preparation for the NRL season, for example the Sharks preparation for the game last year was to go on tours of London, Paris, and Barcelona, and they trialed a bunch of new combinations.

Nobody except maybe the extreme few would argue that the Super League is a better quality competition with better quality clubs then the NRL. 

If English RL is better then Aussie RL then how come England don't hold the WC right now and haven't beaten Australia since 95 and Great Britain hasn't beaten Australia since 06, isn't that "the real litmus test"?

2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

You should watch how Toronto plays and does things....be willing to learn Ragnar...beopen to new ways...the TWP is the beserker!

I've watched every game they've put up on Youtube, I would have watched their whole season if I could have.

Apart from Raiders games I watch barely any NRL anymore (comparative to what I did say 20 years ago anyway), in fact I probably watch more SL in a year then I do NRL these days, it's less structured and the style of play in SL is more fun to watch then the dominant style of play in the NRL.

[Kayakman]

4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Apart from Raiders games I watch barely any NRL anymore (comparative to what I did say 20 years ago anyway), in fact I probably watch more SL in a year then I do NRL these days, it's less structured and the style of play in SL is more fun to watch then the dominant style of play in the NRL.

Then why should I watch the NRL if you don't?...doesn't seem logical to me (Hold on a sec Great Dane...."Hey Freya what do you thing?...thats what I thought too!"...sorry about that Great Dane...just talking to the wife."

Now as i was saying, "I don't buy you saying the World Championship (Club) doesn't really  mean anything...I think it probably means alot....its a World Championship  for the love of Balder!"

"Now young Ragnar listen to my crows when I send them from now on...and don't listen to those voices in your head anymore (its Loki!)"

[The Great Dane]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Then why should I watch the NRL if you don't?...doesn't seem logical to me (Hold on a sec Great Dane...."Hey Freya what do you thing?...thats what I thought too!"...sorry about that Great Dane...just talking to the wife."

My not watching it as much as I used to is very different from not watching it at all...

Anyhow you should watch some cause you could learn a lot about the game from it, and you'd get to see the cultural differences between the game in England and Australia and the different approaches that each have to the game and how it's played on a fundamental level.

But you know do you and all that.

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Now as i was saying, "I don't buy you saying the World Championship (Club) doesn't really  mean anything...I think it probably means alot....its a World Championship  for the love of Balder!"

Believe what you want, but just cause it's called a "World Championship" doesn't mean that it's treated like a world championship.

To invent a NA equivalent, I imagine that if the NFL and CFL had cross code games that the attitude that the NFL teams would hold to beating a CFL team in a "world championship" wouldn't be much different, I'm afraid that beating a SL club just isn't seen as much of an achievement down here, and most WCC go by without making any mainstream impact at all down here.

It could be changed but the NRL and/or RFL don't seem to be willing to make the changes necessary to make it successful on both sides of the equator...

BTW, Listening to Loki sounds like it'd lead to a lot more fun then listening to Huginn and Muninn.

 

[Kayakman]

4 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

My not watching it as much as I used to is very different from not watching it at all...

Anyhow you should watch some cause you could learn a lot about the game from it, and you'd get to see the cultural differences between the game in England and Australia and the different approaches that each have to the game and how it's played on a fundamental level.

But you know do you and all that.

Believe what you want, but just cause it's called a "World Championship" doesn't mean that it's treated like a world championship.

To invent a NA equivalent, I imagine that if the NFL and CFL had cross code games that the attitude that the NFL teams would hold to beating a CFL team in a "world championship" wouldn't be much different, I'm afraid that beating a SL club just isn't seen as much of an achievement down here, and most WCC go by without making any mainstream impact at all down here.

It could be changed but the NRL and/or RFL don't seem to be willing to make the changes necessary to make it successful on both sides of the equator...

BTW, Listening to Loki sounds like it'd lead to a lot more fun then listening to Huginn and Muninn.

 

I know you guys are playing at a high level over there, I'm just yanking your chain young Ragnor...a good Viking knows when to control his emotional responses.

You listen to my crows, stay away from Loki, there is a big final battle coming up and that damn serpent will be slithering around here again...now I've sent Thor to the Toronto Wolfpack to get things running in proper order...I've disguised him as a human for his visit to Middle Earth...do you know his name (A Riddle; yes a riddle!).

[B rad]

2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I know you guys are playing at a high level over there, I'm just yanking your chain young Ragnor...a good Viking knows when to control his emotional responses.

You listen to my crows, stay away from Loki, there is a big final battle coming up and that damn serpent will be slithering around here again...now I've sent Thor to the Toronto Wolfpack to get things running in proper order...I've disguised him as a human for his visit to Middle Earth...do you know his name (A Riddle; yes a riddle!).

You have just seen the movie Thor Ragnarok haven't you Kayakman. Bit hyped up on the Marvel action heroes.

[The Great Dane]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I know you guys are playing at a high level over there, I'm just yanking your chain young Ragnor...a good Viking knows when to control his emotional responses.

You listen to my crows, stay away from Loki, there is a big final battle coming up and that damn serpent will be slithering around here again...now I've sent Thor to the Toronto Wolfpack to get things running in proper order...I've disguised him as a human for his visit to Middle Earth...do you know his name (A Riddle; yes a riddle!).

I'm not getting upset, I've been thoroughly entertained.

BTW, the answer to your riddle is Ashton Sims, and if it's not it should be.

1 hour ago, B rad said:

You have just seen the movie Thor Ragnarok haven't you Kayakman. Bit hyped up on the Marvel action heroes.

Nah, his knowledge of Norse Mythology is deeper then just the ###### that Marvel dishes out. 

[frank]

The Aussies  can't even run an event in their own country, another half hearted attempt in Hawaii will be a disaster

[Kayakman]

9 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

I'm not getting upset, I've been thoroughly entertained.

BTW, the answer to your riddle is Ashton Sims, and if it's not it should be.

Nah, his knowledge of Norse Mythology is deeper then just the ###### that Marvel dishes out. 

Much deeper, much,much deeper!  I once took to carving in the Norse style...its an interesting way to carve...learned alot along the way!

-hang on a sec...oh I'm back...just accidentally dropped the rune stones on the floor...back in the pouch now...as I was saying...