NRLW.

[The Rocket]

Tired of putting NRLW news on a thread called "NRLW seasoned postponed ......" I`ll start this.

[The Rocket]

Fascinating article in today`s paper:

Why NRLW’s best player should get Maggie M Medal, not Dally M (smh.com.au)

The advent of a women’s competition in 1921 may come as a surprise to many, but it was emblematic of the post-war years.

Inspired by British Pathe newsreels of the successful women’s soccer charity matches staged in aid of the war effort, women throughout the Antipodes were attempting all the different codes.

 

Only a handful made it to actual matches, with the inaugural game of the NSW Ladies Rugby Football League (NSWLRFL) - in which Moloney played - by far the most famous and successful.

Debuting before 30,000 excited and curious spectators at the Sydney Showgrounds in September 1921, the Sydney Reds and Metropolitan Blues played under the same rules and wore the same football attire as the men.

They achieved rave reviews: the scrums “packed down faultlessly, the tackles were good and hard, the hooking of both rakes clever and the passing rushes … quite up to the standard of many first-grade matches”.

But the indisputable star was the Blues winger, Maggie Moloney, who scored four tries and was “the idol of the crowd”. One try was “a regular beauty as she had to first shake off the forwards, then outpace her opponent and finally swerve past the fullback. She did it like a champion”.

So popular was Moloney that by the second half, the crowd had learnt her first name and “Maggie was cheered all round the enclosure”.

 

She was awarded two medals, for best and fairest player and most points scored. When the Sun’s front page declared her “the Dally Messenger of the Blues”, it cemented her status as the women’s game’s first star, leading scorer and most exhilarating crowd favourite.

But unlike Messenger, Maggie’s stardom and talent never had the chance to flourish.

Amazing stuff in there, particularly how the fledgling womens` game was blocked by the men due to the fear of its` potential popularity and not only in Australia.

 

[RL Sonja]

Parramatta 13 Newcastle 12 was an excellent game in front of a good crowd. Field goal to win with 14 seconds left on the clock.

Edited February 27, 2022 by RL Sonja

[RL Sonja]

21 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Fascinating article in today`s paper:

Why NRLW’s best player should get Maggie M Medal, not Dally M (smh.com.au)

The advent of a women’s competition in 1921 may come as a surprise to many, but it was emblematic of the post-war years.

Inspired by British Pathe newsreels of the successful women’s soccer charity matches staged in aid of the war effort, women throughout the Antipodes were attempting all the different codes.

 

Only a handful made it to actual matches, with the inaugural game of the NSW Ladies Rugby Football League (NSWLRFL) - in which Moloney played - by far the most famous and successful.

Debuting before 30,000 excited and curious spectators at the Sydney Showgrounds in September 1921, the Sydney Reds and Metropolitan Blues played under the same rules and wore the same football attire as the men.

They achieved rave reviews: the scrums “packed down faultlessly, the tackles were good and hard, the hooking of both rakes clever and the passing rushes … quite up to the standard of many first-grade matches”.

But the indisputable star was the Blues winger, Maggie Moloney, who scored four tries and was “the idol of the crowd”. One try was “a regular beauty as she had to first shake off the forwards, then outpace her opponent and finally swerve past the fullback. She did it like a champion”.

So popular was Moloney that by the second half, the crowd had learnt her first name and “Maggie was cheered all round the enclosure”.

 

She was awarded two medals, for best and fairest player and most points scored. When the Sun’s front page declared her “the Dally Messenger of the Blues”, it cemented her status as the women’s game’s first star, leading scorer and most exhilarating crowd favourite.

But unlike Messenger, Maggie’s stardom and talent never had the chance to flourish.

Amazing stuff in there, particularly how the fledgling womens` game was blocked by the men due to the fear of its` potential popularity and not only in Australia.

 

Spot on. 

[Futtocks]

 

[Futtocks]

 

[Futtocks]

 

[Futtocks]

 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 27/02/2022 at 11:43, Futtocks said:

 

In the unlikely event anyone is interested in the following forensics they will have to check out the full match. Although it`s probably best to stick to the highlights.

I`ve mentioned on many threads how the prevailing style of refereeing in Oz deters risk-taking. It helps though to have specific instances to illustrate the point

I`ve seen Karra-Lee Nolan taking charge of a number of lower-grade games, so I feared the worst. She is Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome incarnate.

At 7:38 on the game clock, a Dragon popped the ball out the back literally in the direction of her own goal-line. But because the forward momentum of the tackle took it close to level relative to the ground, Karra-Lee came up with a knock-on.

At 9:20, a Titan ran round the outside of the Dragons` defence, was pulled down with tackle complete, then thrown over the touchline with a second effort. Karra-Lee gave a handover to the Dragons.

The messages these two calls send are 1) Don`t offload, and 2) Don`t use width. With the consequence that teams stick too much to no-frills bash and crash. We already have a surfeit of that in the men`s game. If NRLW is to truly prosper, the comp will need to provide a different type of football. Women`s RL cannot afford to have officials compulsively punishing creativity.

At 12:43, Karra-Lee delivered another bizarre knock-on call where it couldn`t have been more obvious that the ball travelled backwards. At which point I gave up in frustration. 

It remains astonishing to me that nobody in Aussie RL administration seems to notice the harm being inflicted on the game.

[Scubby]

Tamika Upton (Brisbane full back) is the best player in the world at the moment. She is a star.

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In the unlikely event anyone is interested in the following forensics they will have to check out the full match. Although it`s probably best to stick to the highlights.

I`ve mentioned on many threads how the prevailing style of refereeing in Oz deters risk-taking. It helps though to have specific instances to illustrate the point

I`ve seen Karra-Lee Nolan taking charge of a number of lower-grade games, so I feared the worst. She is Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome incarnate.

At 7:38 on the game clock, a Dragon popped the ball out the back literally in the direction of her own goal-line. But because the forward momentum of the tackle took it close to level relative to the ground, Karra-Lee came up with a knock-on.

At 9:20, a Titan ran round the outside of the Dragons` defence, was pulled down with tackle complete, then thrown over the touchline with a second effort. Karra-Lee gave a handover to the Dragons.

The messages these two calls send are 1) Don`t offload, and 2) Don`t use width. With the consequence that teams stick too much to no-frills bash and crash. We already have a surfeit of that in the men`s game. If NRLW is to truly prosper, the comp will need to provide a different type of football. Women`s RL cannot afford to have officials compulsively punishing creativity.

At 12:43, Karra-Lee delivered another bizarre knock-on call where it couldn`t have been more obvious that the ball travelled backwards. At which point I gave up in frustration. 

It remains astonishing to me that nobody in Aussie RL administration seems to notice the harm being inflicted on the game.

Pedant I saw the incidents you referred to and shared your exasperation. I hope we are not entering the situation where a female referee, like many women in the workforce, feel they not only have to do at least a good of job as the males, but do it better, in League unfortunately this may manifest itself in not missing anything or the fear of making mistakes and hence more interruptions to play. Great though wouldn`t it if they forged their own path and were more like the union I saw on Saturday night where no-one batted an eyelid when blatant knock-ons were ignored.

Thankfully though I did notice in the second half where in a couple of instances what would have been pulled up in the first half was called ` play on, went backwards `, certainly the exception rather the rule though.

With regards your last sentence, if I had to hazard a guess, it would appear to me we are heading in the direction of American football where any loss of the ball results in an immediate halt in play. This being a combination of wanting to improve aesthetics of the game and also the fear of making mistakes that may affect the outcome.

BTW there was an absolute shocker in the opening minutes of the All-Stars where Andrew Fifita over ran a pass, which literally sailed through his arms as it was passed backwards from the dummy-half, he hardly touched it and it continued its` trajectory towards their own goal-line, the referee called knock-on and no-one batted an eyelid. With role models like that what hope do the women have.

 

[RL Sonja]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

In the unlikely event anyone is interested in the following forensics they will have to check out the full match. Although it`s probably best to stick to the highlights.

I`ve mentioned on many threads how the prevailing style of refereeing in Oz deters risk-taking. It helps though to have specific instances to illustrate the point

I`ve seen Karra-Lee Nolan taking charge of a number of lower-grade games, so I feared the worst. She is Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome incarnate.

At 7:38 on the game clock, a Dragon popped the ball out the back literally in the direction of her own goal-line. But because the forward momentum of the tackle took it close to level relative to the ground, Karra-Lee came up with a knock-on.

At 9:20, a Titan ran round the outside of the Dragons` defence, was pulled down with tackle complete, then thrown over the touchline with a second effort. Karra-Lee gave a handover to the Dragons.

The messages these two calls send are 1) Don`t offload, and 2) Don`t use width. With the consequence that teams stick too much to no-frills bash and crash. We already have a surfeit of that in the men`s game. If NRLW is to truly prosper, the comp will need to provide a different type of football. Women`s RL cannot afford to have officials compulsively punishing creativity.

At 12:43, Karra-Lee delivered another bizarre knock-on call where it couldn`t have been more obvious that the ball travelled backwards. At which point I gave up in frustration. 

It remains astonishing to me that nobody in Aussie RL administration seems to notice the harm being inflicted on the game.

This has been the case for years. 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

 the referee called knock-on and no-one batted an eyelid. 

The meek acceptance by players that they are guilty of a knock-on if they drop or fumble the ball any distance under a metre backwards demonstrates how embedded this has now become throughout Aussie RL.

I had hopes for the captain`s challenge bringing about salutary correction. If refs had their knock-on calls repeatedly overturned, surely that would prompt some debate and reflection. I sometimes find myself wondering if officials and players genuinely think that it`s automatically illegal to drop the ball. Do they know what the word "forward" means? In relation to the above cited phantom knock-on calls - why didn`t the Dragons challenge?

After the second of those calls, I think it was Brad Fittler (not normally the sharpest analyst) who said "I`m not sure where the knock-on was there". More observations like that in the media would be useful. They`re only too ready to spot breaches of the rules which are missed, considerably less so imaginary breaches which are called. Very odd, and a failure of logic, to regard passive errors as more deserving of censure than active errors.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 I hope we are not entering the situation where a female referee, like many women in the workforce, feel they not only have to do at least a good of job as the males, but do it better, in League unfortunately this may manifest itself in not missing anything or the fear of making mistakes and hence more interruptions to play. 

This thought has crossed my mind too. Along with another thought that female RL refs might have started out as umpires in netball. A sport where the interventions from officials are incessant.

[The Rocket]

19 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I had hopes for the captain`s challenge bringing about salutary correction. If refs had their knock-on calls repeatedly overturned, surely that would prompt some debate and reflection. I sometimes find myself wondering if officials and players genuinely think that it`s automatically illegal to drop the ball. Do they know what the word "forward" means? In relation to the above cited phantom knock-on calls - why didn`t the Dragons challenge?

I had a lot of hope for the captain`s challenge for the very same reason, like you say, a few knock-ons get overturned and referees may not be so quick to the whistle. It appears however to be such paranoia now around not wanting to waste a CC, that in some bizarre way it seems using it to challenge knock-on calls is considered a waste. 

I`m not prepared to give up hope though, you would think with coaches assistants glued to a monitor, they may eventually cotton on to the idea that given there is 10 seconds for the captain to challenge, a signal could go out to at least challenge the most blatant poor decisions, that would be a start and may embolden coaches and captains to start taking this ridiculous situation a little more seriously. 

[RL Sonja]

The standard was still high following expansion of the competition. There has not been a dilution of the playing depth as some feared.

[The Rocket]

FTA and Pay TV ratings were outstanding for the opening round of the NRLW.

On Foxtel despite not revealing the  specifics, 69 000 tuned in for what I assume was the game between Broncos and Roosters followed by 45 000 for the thriller between Parramatta v. Newcastle. Fumbleball games this year on Foxtel have been generally in the 25 000 - 30 000 mark.

FTA results were a shock to all and sundry. Though I`m not sure whether these results may have been affected by the stay at home warning due to the floods in large parts of Queensland Channel 9 reported a 268 000 metro figure with 211 000 in Queensland alone. Either way given that our main rival has been topping out at about 47 000 it is a mental figure. No wonder that afl friendly SportsIndustry website was referring to League as Australia`s most popular television sport.

Triple header in Wollongong this Sunday with the late game St. George v. Parramatta, who both won in thrilling circumstances last week, setting it up nicely.

[RL Sonja]

Great ratings.

Hopefully the competition keeps building nicely. 

North Queensland are ready to go and the Warriors will come back in post COVID. 

[unapologetic pedant]

error

Edited March 3, 2022 by unapologetic pedant
wrong quote

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

FTA results were a shock to all and sundry. Though I`m not sure whether these results may have been affected by the stay at home warning due to the floods in large parts of Queensland Channel 9 reported a 268 000 metro figure with 211 000 in Queensland alone. Either way given that our main rival has been topping out at about 47 000 it is a mental figure. 

There`s a claim on a ratings website that the 211k in Brisbane was for rolling news of the floods. I`m in no position to confirm or deny this. The game listed is game 3 Eels/Knights, which got 48k in Sydney.

[The Rocket]

10 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

There`s a claim on a ratings website that the 211k in Brisbane was for rolling news of the floods. I`m in no position to confirm or deny this. The game listed is game 3 Eels/Knights, which got 48k in Sydney.

I saw the two posts you are referring to; the initial post was from no doubt an incredulous fumbleball supporter ( Gil Mclachlan you can rest assured ) attempting to caste doubt on the NRLW figures, supported by David Knox ( he of little faith ) with his spurious " rolling news " explanation.

The truth was that on the day previous to the NRLW triple-header it was made very clear by channel 9 that in Queensland, Sunday`s triple header would be shifted to 9`s secondary channel 9Gem; the primary channel would be following the flood story. Thus any nonsense that somehow the ratings agency had somehow mixed up the viewing figures between the main channel with its` `rolling news ` and Gem with its` coverage of the League was just nonsense.

Regardless of all that even if the Queensland figure had been one fifth of that reported, or maybe more in line with the usual  NSW to Queensland ratio, that would still have resulted in around 100 000 viewers metro.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by The Rocket

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

The truth was that on the day previous to the NRLW triple-header it was made very clear by channel 9 that in Queensland, Sunday`s triple header would be shifted to 9`s secondary channel 9Gem; the primary channel would be following the flood story. Thus any nonsense that somehow the ratings agency had somehow mixed up the viewing figures between the main channel with its` `rolling news ` and Gem with its` coverage of the League was just nonsense.

Would be delighted if you`re right, but not too sure myself. The 211k Brisbane figure is so wildly out of line with precedent. And I recall when a FTA TV game was postponed and replaced due to Covid, it was the originally scheduled fixture listed in the ratings. Must take a while for some Sherlock or other to crack the algorithm. 

If you check the metro ratings table, the figures alongside NRLW game 3 are for Nine Network, rather than 9 Gem.

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Regardless of all that even if the Queensland figure had been one fifth of that reported, or maybe more in line with the usual  NSW to Queensland ratio, that would still have resulted in around 100 000 viewers metro.

With the proviso that Eels/Knights had no QLD involvement.

The release of all NRLW Round 1 data leaves a lot to be desired. I have no clue whether the 69k Fox rating was for Broncos/Roosters or Eels/Knights. For argument`s sake, lets assume it was the later game. Even if the metro figure didn`t quite reach 100k, with Fox and regionals added, the total would comfortably exceed 200k. Pretty good, and as you said in your previous post, well up on any women`s Fumble game this year.

15 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Triple header in Wollongong this Sunday with the late game St. George v. Parramatta, who both won in thrilling circumstances last week, setting it up nicely.

Fingers crossed for the weather. All NSWRL junior reps this weekend have been abandoned.

BTW, a ref assessment follow-up - Kasey Badger was excellent in Eels/Knights. Easily the best female ref.

Edited March 3, 2022 by unapologetic pedant

[RL Sonja]

I thought she was very good. 

[The Rocket]

On 04/03/2022 at 01:37, unapologetic pedant said:

For argument`s sake, lets assume it was the later game. Even if the metro figure didn`t quite reach 100k, with Fox and regionals added, the total would comfortably exceed 200k. Pretty good, and as you said in your previous post, well up on any women`s Fumble game this year.

This was in an article by SMH reporter Andrew Webster during the week :

 On Sunday, about 204,000 watched Parramatta’s thrilling victory over Newcastle when Maddie Studdon kicked the winning field goal – up nine per cent on 2020 (the NRLW competition was cancelled last year).

I was immediately suspicious. The net was tightening. From the Australian today :

 

Women’s rugby league had a super impressive start last weekend in TV ratings.

The NRLW triple header in Newcastle flogged the AFLW in the combined Fox Sports and free-to-air figures, easily doubling their audience.

The three NRLW games had an average audience of 168,000 on Fox Sports and Channel 9 compared to the AFLW with an average of 70,000 on Fox Sports and 7 mate.

NRLW vs. AFLW ratings

NRLW Fox Sports and Nine
Dragons v Titans 133,000
Roosters v Broncos 169,000
Knights v Eels 204,000
Average 168,000 
AFLW Fox Sports and 7 mate
St Kilda v Suns 32,000
Magpies v Bulldogs 104,000
Eagles v Lions 75,000
Average 70,000
*figures don’t include live streaming

And V`landy`s putting the boot in as usual, and I have to admit having seen some of the women`s afl, all biases aside, I have to agree.

“I’m not surprised by the figures at all,” V’landys said. “Women’s rugby league is so much more entertaining. I’m not having a crack at the AFLW players because it’s the same with the men. Our game is better than theirs in all forms. Victorians will disagree with me but look at the TV figures.”

Elementary my dear Watson.

Got to give it to the afl though, they`ve got a 9.30 p.m. game on their secondary channel tonight (Saturday), might not be the main channel but better than daytime - wish we had the intestinal fortitude to do that, could crack 250 000.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

The NRLW triple header in Newcastle flogged the AFLW in the combined Fox Sports and free-to-air figures, easily doubling their audience.

Same story on YouTube. AFLW highlights packages are struggling to reach 1k, a week after posting. In contrast the three NRLW equivalents are currently running at 13k, 16k, and 20k.

All the ratings figures ought to have cumulative effects in terms of investment. Already, the degree of exposure for very little outlay makes NRLW sponsorship a great deal. As that gap narrows, NRLW could be funded independently, with its players some of the best paid in Aussie domestic team sport.

The relative success of NRLW over AFLW also vindicates the NRL`s gradual approach to growing their women`s comp.

The AFL have gone too far too fast. When the dust settles on Covid, and sports are looking to restore their balance sheets, an ignominious cost-cutting retreat could be in the offing.

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

“I’m not surprised by the figures at all,” V’landys said. “Women’s rugby league is so much more entertaining. I’m not having a crack at the AFLW players because it’s the same with the men. Our game is better than theirs in all forms. Victorians will disagree with me but look at the TV figures.”

Hate to labour this point (honestly), but I`d rather PVL had noticed that women`s RL would be better to watch if the refereeing in Eels/Knights were the norm.

There was an incident in Broncos/Roosters where, attacking the Roosters` line, Chelsea Lenarduzzi was being driven back in the tackle and slightly lost control of the ball. She quickly regained it, it didn`t hit the ground, nor was it lost forward into an opponent. The ball just bobbled, nothing more. And Belinda Sharp gave a knock-on.

A key feature for the Broncos last week was the desire of Lenarduzzi and Amber Hall to look for an offload out of every tackle they went into. This means the ball might bobble as they battle to get the hands free. What the hell has that got to do with a law intended to prevent players gaining an advantage by propelling the ball towards their opponents` goal-line?

Small wonder we have so much head down/charge/find the floor. When a bobble is deemed a knock-on, attempted offloads just risk turning the ball over.