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Just now, Toby Chopra said:

So, what I'd be really interested in is what percentage of the crowd - whether the lads behind the post or the pensioners in the stand - come from the rugby league "community"? ie it's a family tradition to support the club, and/or they've played at school/community level? 

My sense is a very high percentage of rugby league spectators tick one of those boxes. Is that fair? 

If it is, how do we get better at attracting the hundreds of thousands of people who live in the vicinity of an M62  rugby league club but don't already have a link to the game?

I think we have a wider range of people at games, certainly compared to some other sports, and we do have separate areas, whether pre-defined by clubs (like family stands) or created through peoples habits and natural movements, for people to congregate and take a game in how they wish to. Maybe we need to make a collective song and dance about different areas within a stadium and offer things in those areas that appeal to people there (there’s no real point doing happy hour on ale in a family stand, compared to behind the sticks). 

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45 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

But don't the numbers speak for themselves? I know it's not often enough for loyal red ball fans, but there ARE county championship games on at the weekend, even in high summer this year. They get a fraction of the audience that the Blast does. 

Ish - I love Worcestershire, but do I love Worcestershire enough these days to drop everything and get to the maybe two matches that I could actually physically attend in the red ball?

Regular weekend county cricket hasn't been done for over 20 years, so the 'one man and his dog watch it' shouldn't be any surprise - they've even been through the absolute nadir period of scheduling the championship matches Monday-Thursday, which really did feel like trying to kill it. Thankfully I waas a student at the time, so it didn't hurt me as much as it could have. 

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On 02/05/2022 at 11:26, idrewthehaggis said:

It has been discussed comprehensively on here.

The general opinion is that its would be detrimental to the game.

Which means it will be announced by the end of the week to Tina Turner and the applause of anyone who benefits.

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2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I think we have a wider range of people at games, certainly compared to some other sports, and we do have separate areas, whether pre-defined by clubs (like family stands) or created through peoples habits and natural movements, for people to congregate and take a game in how they wish to. Maybe we need to make a collective song and dance about different areas within a stadium and offer things in those areas that appeal to people there (there’s no real point doing happy hour on ale in a family stand, compared to behind the sticks). 

We've always had a a mixture of people at games, particularly in comparison to football. More women, families, older people alongside blokes. I do think that we struggled with teenagers and young adults though. 

Football however has kicked on massively in diversification. It has started to come closer to RL crowds with its female following in this country (aided by the growth in the womens game). It has more family friendly elements now than before. And RL has always seemed to struggle with racial diversity in its crowds too - football isn't brilliant in its walk up crowds, but in the broader population it is well over that. 

Equally as important is how football has also managed to diversify the economic background of its audience - something RL has almost completely failed to do.

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14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Equally as important is how football has also managed to diversify the economic background of its audience - something RL has almost completely failed to do.

If you watch the Beebs sports news you'll know that RL is essentially invisible on the channel in spite of Aunty being one of our biggest partners.

You cannot, football could not, achieve any kind of diversity levels if it was largely discreet, unnoticable or as unobtrusive as RL is on the most popular news outlet in the country.

 

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 05/05/2022 at 21:57, M j M said:

This cultural cringe some fans have, and their desperation to disassociate the sport from its reality, from its embarrassing unfashionable, non-affluent fan base, is a constant theme. And you seem willing to kill off a couple of clubs and destroy the integrity of the sport to achieve it.

Good point. The roots, the sense of place and belonging should never be dismissed. The cringe ah well, some of which deserves to go. I have no faint sentimentality for Wheldon Road's earthy proletarian spartan nature. Nor lads from Warrington or Salford recreating 1970s after the pubs shut fighting nor any daft glorification of poverty.

I am more in the Leninist camp that when we are victorious, gold will be used for the building of public toilets and RL stadiums as nothing should be too good for the masses. 

Ask Oxford. He knows.

The ethnic diversity of the crowds, probably reflects the diversity of the towns it is placed in.  It could and should do better though.

That assumes diversity is a shade of skin issue. RL has as long as I recall had great diversity of people whose heritage comes from Ireland or Poland for example. Perhaps again a reflection of where the Game is played.

RL has a fine reputation for challenging discrimination and acceptance, of inclusion in accepting diversity and being an equal opportunity employer. In other words, who ever you are, then if you are good enough, we don't care year lad and mam is.

Look for example the contrasting experiences of Jimmy Peters - one of the first black rugby players- from Salford-in Union and then League.

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16 minutes ago, Oxford said:

You cannot, football could not, achieve any kind of diversity levels if it was largely discreet, unnoticable or as unobtrusive as RL is on the most popular news outlet in the country.

Excuses.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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18 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The ethnic diversity of the crowds, probably reflects the diversity of the towns it is placed in.  It could and should do better though.

They don't though, which is why it is worrying that the game's crowds are essentially stuck in the white and "working class", I believe C2DE is the more modern term, group that is on the decline in the "towns RL is placed in".

More absolutely needs to be done. There should be loads more Mikolaj Oledski's and going back way too far Ikram Butt's, in our sport. 

My brother and I have both played both codes of rugby with Eastern European and Asian lads, but they were few and far between considering the areas we played in. Likewise, the sport is no better than any other mature industry for having its old boys networks in place; knowing what scouts are where and which junior clubs are the ones to go to in order to get picked up by the pros and who's dad knows who. New people to the sport, which basically covers all immigrant families, do not have those connections or that knowledge. 

It is the same RL story of going to the same pool to fish for the same fish time and time again.

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2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

For me the biggest lesson of T20 - and more specifically franchise cricket like the IPL and (dons hard hat) The Hundred - is the borrowing of players from their existing clubs for a short period, and packaging them up and selling them to a new audience.

Could we even dream of trying something like that? 

I have no idea how it would work logistically and financially, but an evening of 9s RL involving a 3 team round-robin could make for a belting evening, especially if it contributed to a truncated league of some sort.

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19 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

I have no idea how it would work logistically and financially, but an evening of 9s RL involving a 3 team round-robin could make for a belting evening, especially if it contributed to a truncated league of some sort.

Perhaps over summer in select venues, nothing huge or out of touch, even whilst England go down under to play if that is what it takes. Thinking Headingley, Brentford, a venue in Greater Manchester/Merseyside - potential for the likes of Newcastle, Cardiff or Bristol even. "Summer Evening Rugby" being the theme. Everyone in traditional kits/colours, FTA coverage, have it over 2/3 weeks in August.

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54 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Perhaps over summer in select venues, nothing huge or out of touch, even whilst England go down under to play if that is what it takes. Thinking Headingley, Brentford, a venue in Greater Manchester/Merseyside - potential for the likes of Newcastle, Cardiff or Bristol even. "Summer Evening Rugby" being the theme. Everyone in traditional kits/colours, FTA coverage, have it over 2/3 weeks in August.

Should go down a storm 

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

As is the theme of the past few pages of this thread: its not all about you Cheryl!

As I said , should go down a storm 

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4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Excuses.

It is amazing how often words like that are used to explain away reality.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Oxford said:

It is amazing how often words like that are used to explain away reality.

 

Control the controllables, then start complaining about everyone else.

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Control the controllables, then start complaining about everyone else.

Although I agree that doing nothing is not the answer, if you have no understanding of what you're up against all you have is quotes from the Ladybird book of Strategy. 1958 edition of course!

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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Just now, Oxford said:

Although I agree that doing nothing is not the answer, if you have no understanding of what you're up against all you have is quotes from the Ladybird book of Strategy. 1958 edition of course!

Sadly finding answers for shortcomings outside of what you control is often the easy option, which is why so many prefer it.

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

Sadly finding answers for shortcomings outside of what you control is often the easy option, which is why so many prefer it.

You can do lots if you have a clear understanding of how things work rather than relying on self-help libraries.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

You can do lots if you have a clear understanding of how things work rather than relying on self-help libraries.

Course, but blaming others and downing tools is the road to failure

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4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Perhaps over summer in select venues, nothing huge or out of touch, even whilst England go down under to play if that is what it takes. Thinking Headingley, Brentford, a venue in Greater Manchester/Merseyside - potential for the likes of Newcastle, Cardiff or Bristol even. "Summer Evening Rugby" being the theme. Everyone in traditional kits/colours, FTA coverage, have it over 2/3 weeks in August.

Tommy you amaze me. We agreed on the last few posts, but somehow disagree on the demographic mix of former mining towns. We both agree more needs to happen.

I really get to experience what the dynamics of SRD are. Which to be honest is a bit different than the average RL support as its a city within a bigger city region. The last game i went to I was surrounded by teachers, social workers, a couple who said they NHS business managers and kids from a real cross section of schools. I know the family who have STH alongside me are engineers. And as Salford is not as characteristically diverse as other UK cities are. 

But hey I do like that Nine's idea. It is the sort of soft recruitment scheme that the other code and football do. Especially football. Doesn't basketball do sometime grassroots like that?

Really smart thinking Tommy. Pick that one up RFL/IMG

 

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The relationship between investment, sponsorship and sports is not lost on anyone within these virtual four walls. The lack of progress  that haunts the sport in every discussion in this "forum" illustrates how accutely aware more or less every poster is on the issue. No one doubts that more effort would help though some think there is no effort being made at all to change things. There are a fair few folk who see it as the sport's fault that this is the case. Well IMG and the changes that they're about to make probably though not certainly two SL of ten teams (this sounds suspiciously like a top clubs number one on the wish list) will put this to the test. IMG have the wherewithall to change things and signing up with them does look like a "get that bloke who made darts fashionable in" kind of idea. So all this is about to be tested. Can IMG's changes project RL into the rest of the country's gaze and create country wide interest ?

All the other changes like Christmas Past return to threads with all the regularity of interminable soap operas only to crash when the price seems more than we're willing to pay or on the indifference of everyone else or both.

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

"They're the say owt, do nowt Party!"

 

 

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15 hours ago, Oxford said:

If you watch the Beebs sports news you'll know that RL is essentially invisible on the channel in spite of Aunty being one of our biggest partners.

You cannot, football could not, achieve any kind of diversity levels if it was largely discreet, unnoticable or as unobtrusive as RL is on the most popular news outlet in the country.

 

 

I think that has downplayed a huge amount of work that has been done at grass roots level by football. What is RL doing to work with the Asian communities in their heartlands.. similar questions are being asked in Cricket, why are Asian players not coming through? Its attitudes and discrimination further down the grass roots that causes issues. If the local coach is not welcoming then that child does not get involved to become the next pro, amateur or spectator. If the parents aren't welcomed then they are not going to become the next set of spectators and so on.

Football has worked very hard to get grass roots participation up and that knocks on... yes TV coverage helps because "if you cant see it you wont become it" etc but that is only 1/2 (if that) of the battle, the key is getting into schools, youth groups, areas and getting the kids and their families involved. That's what RL can do and from what i can tell it doesn't do it well.

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