League Express Podcast 66

[Martyn Sadler]

In this week's episode of the League Express Podcast, Jake Kearnan and I are joined by Hunslet RLFC CEO Neil Hampshire to discuss the clubs promotion to the Championship, IMG's impact on clubs outside of Super League and the club's history.
We discuss how things could have been different had the club not been denied promotion to Super League back in 1999 and a surprise bid from the Leicester Tigers to purchase the club's Rugby League licence back in the day.
Neil explains how a junior academy draft system could benefit the sport.
And we discuss the current state of the game and whether Championship and League 1 matches need to be televised.

 

[JohnM]

  Not a good watch for progressives.  Very much one for the antigraders.   Absolutely NO awareness or acceptance the poor state of the game under the old regime.   Like watching Little Britain.

Edited November 26, 2024 by JohnM

[Martyn Sadler]

49 minutes ago, JohnM said:

  Not a good watch for progressives.  Very much one for the antigraders.   

I don't agree and I'm not sure what you mean by 'progressive' in this context.

If there is anything that Neil said that you explicitly disagree with, just explain why.

I think anyone would struggle to fault his logic.

[JohnM]

3 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I don't agree and I'm not sure what you mean by 'progressive' in this context.

If there is anything that Neil said that you explicitly disagree with, just explain why.

I think anyone would struggle to fault his logic.

I recommend everyone should watch it and form their own views on what they see. It is interesting and informative,revealing and challening and requires a response. 

Yes, its good to see an owner who is passionate about the game and his club, but that doesn't automatically make him right.  However, you didn't challenge him on any points. It was more of a promo for the anti-brigade.

Clearly I don't agree with his characterisation, nor yours. His logic basically comes down to this: "everything is wrong." His is the club, he said,  that turned down investment from Leicester Tigers. For example. his complaint about short-termism is so easily countered by the 12 year duration of "Re-imagining Rugby League".  HMRC tightly run? Have you tried phoning them? Do you know their record on collecting outstanding tax? Curretly, they have failed to collect £44 billion.

You repeat the canard about paying IMG £750k a year without any evidence.  You complain about RFL NEDS not being rugby league people?  That is exactly what is needed, given the track record of the rugby league so far.  Here's an insight into the role of a NED.Non-executive director: who are they and what do they do  Not many quality NEDS around with rugby league involvement.

Your speculation about  the end of grading and wish for armageddon if the Bulls are denied entry to SL give the game away. Why no speculation instead about feedback and evolutionary  development. And you complaining, "it hasn't happended  yet" just two years in, illustrates my point perfectly. 

Finally, you claim the game is out of control.  "Its a nuclear bomb waiting to go off."  were your words, it seems.

Incidentally, the Hunslet wikipedia entry contained the following words, just now deleted: Hunslet Hawks were bribed to not go into the super league by the RFL which is not spoken about. Legal action was going tobe pursued about the justification of not letting them into the Super league until money changed hands under the table.

 

 

[Martyn Sadler]

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

I recommend everyone should watch it and form their own views on what they see. It is interesting and informative,revealing and challening and requires a response. 

Correct!

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Yes, its good to see an owner who is passionate about the game and his club, but that doesn't automatically make him right.  However, you didn't challenge him on any points. It was more of a promo for the anti-brigade.

It's intended as a discussion, not an interrogation. Its purpose is to allow a guest to express his views on the game, whatever they might be. At the moment, incidentally, it would be hard to find someone willing to act as the 'pro-brigade'.

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Clearly I don't agree with his characterisation, nor yours. His logic basically comes down to this: "everything is wrong." His is the club, he said,  that turned down investment from Leicester Tigers. For example. his complaint about short-termism is so easily countered by the 12 year duration of "Re-imagining Rugby League".  HMRC tightly run? Have you tried phoning them? Do you know their record on collecting outstanding tax? Curretly, they have failed to collect £44 billion.

I don't think he's saying everything is wrong but I think it's undeniable that some things are wrong. And as for the Leicester Tigers, that was long before his time. And I'm sure everyone will have their own views on HMRC. I don't think we can blame the Hunslet CEO for unpaid taxes.

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

You repeat the canard about paying IMG £750k a year without any evidence.  You complain about RFL NEDS not being rugby league people?  That is exactly what is needed, given the track record of the rugby league so far.  Here's an insight into the role of a NED.Non-executive director: who are they and what do they do  Not many quality NEDS around with rugby league involvement.

If you listen a bit more carefully you'll realise that I said we are paying IMG £450,000 per year from year 3 onwards, while we are also paying £300,000 to the non-executive directors of the RFL and RL Commercial. That information is now in the public domain and if you doubt it I suggest you check the RFL's accounts for NED payments and contact them to confirm the IMG payments. I agree that NEDs shouldn't just be Rugby League people but there should be a balance that isn't there at the moment.

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Your speculation about  the end of grading and wish for armageddon if the Bulls are denied entry to SL give the game away. Why no speculation instead about feedback and evolutionary  development. And you complaining, "it hasn't happended  yet" just two years in, illustrates my point perfectly. 

I'm not sure what 'game' my speculation about grading is giving away. And I'm not sure what point it is that is being illustrated 'perfectly'.

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Finally, you claim the game is out of control.  "Its a nuclear bomb waiting to go off."  were your words, it seems.

There is a great deal of unhappiness among club owners about the way the game is currently run. I don't agree with all the critics but I think that changes are on the way. I'll admit that the nuclear bomb analogy is somewhat hyperbolic.

15 hours ago, JohnM said:

Incidentally, the Hunslet wikipedia entry contained the following words, just now deleted: Hunslet Hawks were bribed to not go into the super league by the RFL which is not spoken about. Legal action was going tobe pursued about the justification of not letting them into the Super league until money changed hands under the table.

As Neil explains in the Podcast, Hunslet are trying to increase the usage of the stadium to justify its further development. That seems sensible to me.

As for the deleted entry in Wikipedia, I don't know anything about that. Often things are deleted because they aren't true.

[redjonn]

I enjoyed watching and thought the guest was quite insightful. I had/have no underlying bias and thought the guest was fully aware of the state of the game pre and post whatever period so don't get the comment above.

[JohnM]

Thanks Martyn for your detailed responses. I'm not intending to use this to argue points already discussed in other topics.

My response was triggered by my watching this live on YouTube. I was so angry at what I was seeing that,  for the first time, I switched off after ten minutes, returning later to continue where I had left off. 

I won't make further comment, nor will I try to convince others,  other than confirming that I stand by my opinion, and I do strongly  recommend that people watch the podcast and make their own minds up either way. 

Thanks again .

[Harry Stottle]

Thoroughly enjoyed the podcast as usual Martyn, and I believe that whichever side of the IMG debate one favours, it was interesting to hear from someone at the sharp end, someone who has actual expierience of the procedures and not just those who just believe what they think, yes I could be accused of that even though I am firmly in the opposite camp than those who are pro this new system.

It would be interesting if you could get the opinion of more club Chairmen/CEO's from across all the division's on your podcast, that would be good when there is no RL to discuss in the off season.

One point I believe was very interesting was the disclosure by Neil (to be announced prior to next season I believe) that those clubs below SL are going to recieve funding commensurate on their finishing positioning on the 'grading' ladder, I remember very well that variation in payment was something that was scorned upon by many on these pages when the very same was previously applied albeit on the finishing position of the Championship clubs on the 'league' ladder as it was deemed to support only a few clubs in their endeavours to enable promotion to the SL, I would very much like to learn how this new 'payment by grading' will be any different other than only favouring a few clubs.

[Barley Mow]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

...One point I believe was very interesting was the disclosure by Neil (to be announced prior to next season I believe) that those clubs below SL are going to recieve funding commensurate on their finishing positioning on the 'grading' ladder, I remember very well that variation in payment was something that was scorned upon by many on these pages when the very same was previously applied albeit on the finishing position of the Championship clubs on the 'league' ladder as it was deemed to support only a few clubs in their endeavours to enable promotion to the SL, I would very much like to learn how this new 'payment by grading' will be any different other than only favouring a few clubs.

This was first mentioned in September, before the grades were released.

It was also given some discussion on the IMG grading thread at the time of the gradings release. I was a little surprised that Martyn wasn't aware of it in the podcast.

Although I don't think it's been confirmed officially, the word was that funding is on a sliding scale based on the clubs' place on the grading 'league table':

In Championship top place getting approx £150k, graduating down to bottom place getting approx £85k. For L1 a range of £33k-£18k central funding.

[Martyn Sadler]

6 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

This was first mentioned in September, before the grades were released.

It was also given some discussion on the IMG grading thread at the time of the gradings release. I was a little surprised that Martyn wasn't aware of it in the podcast.

Although I don't think it's been confirmed officially, the word was that funding is on a sliding scale based on the clubs' place on the grading 'league table':

In Championship top place getting approx £150k, graduating down to bottom place getting approx £85k. For L1 a range of £33k-£18k central funding.

I believe it's due to be confirmed at next week's RFL Council meeting.

But some details have leaked out, as you point out.

[Hopie]

Had to turn it off after a few minutes because the audio was irritating my ears, you need to get a better setup, listen as you record, or edit out the constant banging on the mics.

I was interested to hear what the guest said, although based on the few reading the comments above, I would prefer to hear a journalist do an interview rather than a few blokes have a chat. I know a lot of podcasts are that, but for a specialist subject I want to hear an insight into the subject at hand, rather than just random chat and opinions.