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Vikings announce financial figures


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#81 FearTheVee

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE (l'angelo mysterioso @ Aug 31 2010, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
there's nothing wrong with local authorities investing in sports clubs. I thought Vengance expressed that idea very well, hence my reply.


Sorry, I quoted you by mistake - no idea why! biggrin.gif

#82 Red Willow

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:29 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Aug 31 2010, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think we'd have been fine coming up with Steve O Connor on board. As it stands, our crowds are stagnating because there is little excitement in the rugby.

I'm not particularly sold on franchising. We could come out of it smelling of roses but the clubs who lose out will lose far too much in my opinion. We're selling them out.

The decision to leave us out was based on a number of clubs getting new stadiums and being supposedly stronger than we are. One of those has had to move to a completely different part of the country and of those getting stadia none have actually started building, and crowds wise we could have done better. So I still think it was the wrong decision. We could come out of this strong but it will remain to be seen whether the championship will be treated fairly in years to come. I do worry for certain teams. Whoever we replace wont be primed for coming back up, I think they will soon find it hard from the championship to justify replacing anyone in super league or going straight to the front of the queue. Thats the problem. A number of teams currently in super league would be only as strong as the better teams in the championship if they dropped down. So what justification is there of giving them 6 years and counting in the top flight? One measly team gets replaced? A number of average teams get 6 then 9 years in the top flight unhindered at the expense of clubs just as viable? On what basis is this fair?



What ever the reasons Widnes post a rofit it is good news.

I guess some are worried that the profit is just down to mr O'Connor pumping in huge sums in sponsorship.

The only dispute I have is your reason why Widnes didn't get a franchise last time. The reason was the current Widnes club were unable to produce 3 yeas accounts as they ahd wiped out the debts by going bust.

This might have been an advantage for returning to profit but whatever or however Widnes have managed it this is good news and something for others to aspire to.

Coming on the back of a successful year for the Academy it does show that some of the thinking behind franchises works.

Next is the hard work for the rugby paying public to see the Championship as a valid comp, not disparage it.


#83 hoss118

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (carlos @ Aug 28 2010, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
even with a 3808 average crowd, doing a crude basic calculation, at 3k paying customers at 15 each say = 45000 gate recipts per matchday.say thats 15 homes games = 675000.

So 675000 in gate recepts. Tha tmeans theres some major coroprate/sposnsorship sold to get to 2.5 million. The clubs overheads must be ridiculously low or are tehy playing at Halton for for free.

Its great to make a profit dont get me wrong, but even from a basic accounting point of view , it doesnt add up. In my world (commercial banking) youd be scrutinising those figures with more than a fine toothcomb for money laundering etc!!

dont forget any charitble donations to the club can also be included in the turnover ie stobarts paying all our hire charges for the ground to hbc hbc giving a percentage of the bar takens on any given home home game to widnes any out side charity groups supplying money to help pay players wages etc can be taken as turnover . all sorts of ways to make a turnover of 2.5 millon

#84 hoss118

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE (carlos @ Aug 28 2010, 02:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
even with a 3808 average crowd, doing a crude basic calculation, at 3k paying customers at 15 each say = 45000 gate recipts per matchday.say thats 15 homes games = 675000.

So 675000 in gate recepts. Tha tmeans theres some major coroprate/sposnsorship sold to get to 2.5 million. The clubs overheads must be ridiculously low or are tehy playing at Halton for for free.

Its great to make a profit dont get me wrong, but even from a basic accounting point of view , it doesnt add up. In my world (commercial banking) youd be scrutinising those figures with more than a fine toothcomb for money laundering etc!!

dont forget any charitble donations to the club can also be included in the turnover ie stobarts paying all our hire charges for the ground to hbc hbc giving a percentage of the bar takens on any given home home game to widnes any out side charity groups supplying money to help pay players wages etc can be taken as turnover . all sorts of ways to make a turnover of 2.5 millon

#85 hoss118

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:38 PM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Aug 31 2010, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
May I pose a question for our Widnes friends?

The club certainly seems to be in very good shape now. Is it just possible that you are in a much better position to make a go of SL now than you were two years ago? After all, look at how we have struggled! Maybe the decision was the right one after all?

So, my question is: "With hindsight, how do you now feel about the decision in 2008?"



as a widnes fan at the time i thought it was wrong however it has given the people of the rfl world that are chairmen was here for the long run and to help us maintain a better club for the long term. for this i think it has been good for the club to build up what we have . it also helped that we ticked the nrc box last year as this give us more options to focus on the other parts of widnes rlfc ie the youth set up and so forth as our unders 18s are showing against the top super league clubs under 18s . yet other teams have put most of there resources into the first team to tick that box . back to the question was it right at the time to not give us a super league status . i belive it was . hopefully if we are granted one this time around we can follow in the footseps of our cheshire neighbours warrington who have grown as a club over the last four or five seasons very well

#86 shrek

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 02:49 PM

2.5 million turnover is great news, especially with such a healthy profit.

For those getting prickly about any questioning of how these figures have been arrived at should go back and read some of Adeybull's posts, he's gone through many a set of club accounts with a fine tooth comb and you'll see its not just Widnes that get dragged over the coals when finances are being talked about! There would appear to be some very experienced bean counters in our midst!

Edited by shrek, 01 September 2010 - 02:49 PM.

On Friday 28th March I'm taking part in the Wigan Streetsleep, raising money for The Brick charity who try to ensure nobody in Wigan finding themselves homeless spends a 2nd night on the streets and providing help and support via a foodbank.  Every penny counts so if you can spare anything at all its much appreciated - this link will take you to my sponsorship page thanks.


#87 Bomb Jack

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:41 PM

I am very proud indeed to report that our club is free of debt and is in robust good health underpinned by a sustainable business plan.



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Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#88 RP London

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE (Johnny Rocco @ Aug 28 2010, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There was 1m spent on the ground in the previous figure thats not in this also a NRC win and a decent average league crowd of 3,808


But your looking at turnover which is crudely income.. doesnt matter if they spent 1m last year thats not in turnover.. that goes into the P&L and Balance sheet.. they would have needed ot make that 1m to spend it so it woul dhave been in turnover or they would have been funding it through borrowing it and paying it off but either wya its the extra 1m in turnover that is getting people a bit sceptical which has onthign to do with what they did/did not spend this year compared to next..

its great news but it does pose a few questions, the answers to which could be very important for other clubs to learn from

Edited by RP London, 02 September 2010 - 01:03 PM.


#89 Red Willow

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 03:15 PM

Why are Widnes spending money on the ground if it is council owned?

#90 Johnny Rocco

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE (Red Willow @ Sep 2 2010, 04:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why are Widnes spending money on the ground if it is council owned?


Cos we can! laugh.gif

#91 Tipster Ste

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 04:21 PM

Does anyone really believe these results?? The Beano prints more truth.

May i suggest Ian Lenghan or Gary Hetherington quickly seek a conference call to Steve O Connor and his management team to understand how he managed to create a 1m pound profit off a 2.5m turnover playing just 10 league home games with an average crowd of 3K.

Just think what the management team of Widnes could achieve with Wigan and Leeds turnover, attendances and finals attended.

Oh whats that I smell is it the brown stuff..................

Good luck to Widnes they should never have been kicked out of SL on the last two times, but do we really have to be subjected to such nonsense stories?
On the march to Super League with Ian Millward's Barmy Army!

#92 Bomb Jack

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:47 PM

QUOTE (Tipster Ste @ Sep 2 2010, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Does anyone really believe these results?? The Beano prints more truth.

May i suggest Ian Lenghan or Gary Hetherington quickly seek a conference call to Steve O Connor and his management team to understand how he managed to create a 1m pound profit off a 2.5m turnover playing just 10 league home games with an average crowd of 3K.

Just think what the management team of Widnes could achieve with Wigan and Leeds turnover, attendances and finals attended.

Oh whats that I smell is it the brown stuff..................

Good luck to Widnes they should never have been kicked out of SL on the last two times, but do we really have to be subjected to such nonsense stories?


The Green Eyed Monster arises again. It's not that you don't believe it, it's that you don't want to believe it.

Widnes are light years ahead of Leigh off the field, and you don't like it.

Steve O'Connor is a very, very successful local businessman, who sold his Haulage Company for over 30 million pounds. He has a very astute and wise business head, and can obviously bring a lot to a Company.

That's why Stobarts kept him on once they had bought him out.

I'm sure you'd give your right arm to have an O'Connor at Leigh..........







Widnes - Super League's newest Club, and Cheshire's Original Glamour Club. Watch out Warrington, we're back !

#93 chrisl1

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:00 PM

QUOTE (Red Willow @ Sep 1 2010, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only dispute I have is your reason why Widnes didn't get a franchise last time. The reason was the current Widnes club were unable to produce 3 yeas accounts as they ahd wiped out the debts by going bust.

I'm not too sure that this was the case. One of the criteria in the last round of licensing was that a club applying for a Super League licence had to be "solvent". Widnes were clearly "solvent" when they submitted their application in March 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/7138760.stm

#94 tonyXIII

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:10 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Sep 3 2010, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not too sure that this was the case. One of the criteria in the last round of licensing was that a club applying for a Super League licence had to be "solvent". Widnes were clearly "solvent" when they submitted their application in March 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.u...gue/7138760.stm


I thought Widnes went bust less than 12 months before the licensing decision and, therefore, were unable to produce a full year's accounts (the new club had been trading for less than 12 months).

Whatever, I think RW is right on this. Widnes' gripe was that they had been told that 'going bust' would not prevent them getting a licence, whereas it actually did because they got a 'C' licence like almost everyone else and the lack of accounts turned out to be the deciding factor.

At least, that's how I remember it. Shouldn't be a problem this time round. Perhaps we could all look to the future, instead of the past?


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#95 chrisl1

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:53 PM

QUOTE (tonyXIII @ Sep 2 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought Widnes went bust less than 12 months before the licensing decision and, therefore, were unable to produce a full year's accounts (the new club had been trading for less than 12 months).

Whatever, I think RW is right on this. Widnes' gripe was that they had been told that 'going bust' would not prevent them getting a licence, whereas it actually did because they got a 'C' licence like almost everyone else and the lack of accounts turned out to be the deciding factor.

At least, that's how I remember it. Shouldn't be a problem this time round. Perhaps we could all look to the future, instead of the past?

"Solvency" was defined in the criterion "as being in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency although this criterion can be satisfied if there is a written owners guarantee of the club's debts". There is no mention of the production of three years accounts. But as you say it should not be a problem this time.

http://www.thefreeli...ws)-a0174709384

#96 tonyXIII

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Sep 3 2010, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Solvency" was defined in the criterion "as being in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency although this criterion can be satisfied if there is a written owners guarantee of the club's debts". There is no mention of the production of three years accounts. But as you say it should not be a problem this time.

http://www.thefreeli...ws)-a0174709384


Point taken. And Steve O'Connor's offer of a 'bond' was an interesting ploy. However, I hope to see Widnes in SL in 2012 and wish them well.

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#97 tonyXIII

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:06 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Sep 3 2010, 12:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Solvency" was defined in the criterion "as being in accordance with accounting definitions of solvency although this criterion can be satisfied if there is a written owners guarantee of the club's debts". There is no mention of the production of three years accounts. But as you say it should not be a problem this time.

http://www.thefreeli...ws)-a0174709384


Actually, I've just read your link a bit more carefully and I think point 10 is rather interesting, don't you?

"Compliance with salary-cap regulations. Specifically, clubs must not have incurred any breach of the salary cap in the last three years."

If this is still in place, one or two clubs might be sweating in 8 months time, don't you think? Or perhaps not, considering who the likely culprits are? ph34r.gif


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#98 Tipster Ste

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 02:23 PM

QUOTE (Bomb Jack @ Sep 2 2010, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Green Eyed Monster arises again. It's not that you don't believe it, it's that you don't want to believe it.

Widnes are light years ahead of Leigh off the field, and you don't like it.

Steve O'Connor is a very, very successful local businessman, who sold his Haulage Company for over 30 million pounds. He has a very astute and wise business head, and can obviously bring a lot to a Company.

That's why Stobarts kept him on once they had bought him out.

I'm sure you'd give your right arm to have an O'Connor at Leigh..........


Not jealous I happen to believe you should be in SL after all the RFL have wrongly relegated you twice in the last 15 years.

if you honestly believe you had a'proper' turnover of 2.5m with a 1m profit then you are an IDIOT!

Its absolutely impossible in fact one of your very own fans has highlighted exactly what SOC has done he has written off loans he provided in 2008 in the 2009 accounts subequently creating a huge amount of income. I hope he's ready to do like wise for a number of years to justify this latest lie!!
On the march to Super League with Ian Millward's Barmy Army!

#99 ChrisB

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 02:35 PM

QUOTE (Tipster Ste @ Sep 3 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Not jealous I happen to believe you should be in SL after all the RFL have wrongly relegated you twice in the last 15 years.

if you honestly believe you had a'proper' turnover of 2.5m with a 1m profit then you are an IDIOT!

Its absolutely impossible in fact one of your very own fans has highlighted exactly what SOC has done he has written off loans he provided in 2008 in the 2009 accounts subequently creating a huge amount of income. I hope he's ready to do like wise for a number of years to justify this latest lie!!


He's highlight EXACTLY what SOC has done?!? Strange that as the fan is not someone that has any reason to see the accounts as they are being prepared and they are not available for public scrutiny yet.

The main fact is that they WILL be available for public viewing soon enough. This isn't like pulling an attendance figure out of thin air. These figures can and will be checked so let's wait for them to come out before you start conjecturing that there's wrong doing.


Widnes Vikings RLFC - We were better than you ever will be!!!!!


Sky Sports wrote about the Widnes Vikings:

with the RFL having pledged to conditionally award a licence to a Championship club, it would be a surprise if they do not succeed.

The RFL wrote about Widnes Vikings RLFC:

it is surely now only a matter of time before Widnes are back in the big time.


#100 1976PMJwires

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 02:37 PM

OMG what is this ###### all about.

However Widnes make there 1M profit is there business.

What people should be asking ??? Net or Gross....... theres the big difference.


again


WELL DONE WIDNES.... SL 2012 awaits you.




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