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Wellsy4HullFC

Member Since 14 Apr 2004
Offline Last Active Today, 08:16 AM
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#3063384 Toulouse news

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on Yesterday, 01:50 PM

yes that was the question , despite certain posters trying to derail it with references to amateur clubs 120 years ago

IYO , is it viable , and how would you do it ?

To be honest, I think it is relevant. It links to people's views of the bottom-up equal opportunity argument. I think if you continually dismiss other people's arguments as pointless, that's what derails a thread.

Do I think it's viable to bring a club in to the European SL from outside of the British system? Without a doubt. It's happened already with Catalans. Whether that was/is the best way is what's probably up for debate.

Do I think going through the Championship or League 1 is the best way? My initial reaction is no, but I want to think about it a bit more. It didn't work last time, but circumstances have changed. You can't ignore either points.

For me, there are fors and againsts for every method. I just want to look into which has the most fors and the least againsts, and which ones are realistic enough or viable enough considering our limited resources. It's easy to say "stick them straight in SL" but if there isn't the investment, it wouldn't work. But if there is, it probably would, but then there are other negatives to that method.

This is a HUGE topic. I think it's good beyond just talking about Toulouse, and to be honest probably deserves it's own thread. (And this thread deserves it to have a separate thread as well to be honest).


#3062052 GB Players 10 years ago

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 27 January 2015 - 09:59 PM

Farrell not world class? Man of Steel and Golden Boot winner wasn't he?


#3061421 Aude Pays Cathare Rugby XIII

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 26 January 2015 - 08:35 PM

A conference system is the only way to go for France. One or two token clubs won't keep strength there, especially in a P&R environment.
But a lot of the traditional fan base just won't take to the franchising system.

The RFL need to put a number of expansion options on the table and see which one interests French TV the most. Without funding, there will be no expansion. But without a plan, or a choice, investors won't be interested.

A conference system could easily fit into the split season format. Two British groups of six. One French group of four. 21 games each. 3+3+2 into the top 8. 3+3(+2 Championship).


#3060632 Aude Pays Cathare Rugby XIII

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 25 January 2015 - 04:27 PM

Once again there seems to be a level of vision and ambition in French RL (despite its tiny presence and resources) that we rarely attempt to emulate in the UK.

This is a good point. Perhaps clubs should be looking to bring up new areas and generate interest there through friendly events like this?

I've always wondered why the two Hull clubs haven't tried to generate interest in areas like Grimsby and Lincoln, just over the bridge? Maybe a friendly with a local club using the under 19s could start an event? I believe Hull's academy are playing Lincoln Uni as part of the 150th anniversary celebrations.

Saints in Liverpool. Warrington in Cheshire. Salford in Manchester, etc. Just a small friendly for now against local opposition at their place.


#3060260 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 24 January 2015 - 09:09 PM

I take your point about the two competitions but I simply think it could be better named as the real internationals are those between multiple nations at country level and IMO that's where our focus should be when it comes to international competition.

I don't think anyone is claiming that these are real internationals, or that they should replace them (otherwise I'd agree). I think inter-league competition is vital for global sport these days. Look at the Champions League and the European Cup (whatever it's called now in union). The interest they garner is huge. It tells us the relative strengths of our competitions. A kind of moderation process, if you will. A global sport in a global world needs global competition to get global sponsors, both at club and representative level.

I have no idea what I would call the comp because I've never given it any thought but I'm sure someone more creative than me could come up with an alternative if it was important, which it really isn't.

You've given it enough thought to comment on it, so it's clearly an issue (not that that's a problem). I can see what you're getting at if though. If football had a club competition between just Europe and South America, then to call it a World competition wouldn't be correct as there are other leagues. It would be more an Intercontinental Club Cup. However, I think World is a perfectly fine description for this as they would indeed be the best in the World, and to give it a name talking it down would be madness.


#3060010 Record ST sales at Leigh

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 24 January 2015 - 09:49 AM

On the aggregate thing...

Just going off the weekly average for SL last season of 8,365 (source is Wikipedia! I couldn't find anything else to go by!), if you multiply that by 26 rounds and 7 games per round, the aggregate is 1,522,430.

So that's the SL target. We now only have 12 teams, but we also have different mix of games so it's a bit difficult to work out! I'm gonna go with 1,522,430 divided by (22 reg season x 6 games per week + 7 top eight x 4 games per week + 7 middle eight x 2* games per week)

So 1,522,430 / (132 + 28 + 14) = 1,522,430 / 174 = 8,749 average needed to beat last year's aggregate.

*I just included half of the middle 8 games to make it easier to work out. The other half can be used as Championship figcorrector probably isn't correct, but it's a good rough guess.

Without London in the league, it shouldn't be hard for clubs to achieve that overall. The big clubs are playing each other more, and I doubt even the smallest drawers would go close to London's awful average last year.


#3058461 Newcastle Thunder

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 21 January 2015 - 12:29 PM

So let me get this straight...

Catalan Dragons
Cheshire Vikings
Cheshire Wolves
Hull FC
Hull KR
Kirklees Giants
Leeds Rhinos
Liverpool Saints
Manchester Red Devils
Manchester Warriors
Wakefield Tigers
Wakefield Wildcats


#3057752 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 20 January 2015 - 06:33 AM

it's a familiar theme here on this site , the constant reference to crowd numbers. It leads one to think that it's the Elephant in the room. (That is if it wasn't talked about so much).
If people want to see a game of League they will pay and go . They don't need to be told to support it . it should stand on its own as a great spectacle and attract as many punters as it deserves.

Imagine if Man Utd suddenly got a 60k crowd. People would talk about it.

If the FA Cup final only got 60k. People would talk.

There are expectations many have for our game. Football often meets crowd expectations. People do talk about the low FA Cup crowds. That doesn't make them insecure. It means they recognise that they should do better.

18,000 for a WCC is easy below anyone's expectations for a big event. If what Saintslass says is true about needing a sell out to break even (and to be honest, on her previous track record with facts in this thread I don't believe it), then that just says it all about taking this game to a venue so small and not trying to promote it.


#3057576 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 19 January 2015 - 06:11 PM

On attendances, on a brief and possibly inaccurate trawl...

Central Park got nearly 37k - it was a tight squeeze, but subsequently got 17.5k but I cannot recall the opposition (Broncos perhaps? If so, poor form)
Anfield (for Wigan) - got 20k
Old Trafford (for Widnes) - got 31k
the DW (for Saints?) - got 13.5k
5 at Headingley/McAlpine - never below 18k
Elland Road's crowds were all over 27k
Bolton's were upwards of 16k

Very few of these were "sold out", but many were in excess of Saints' capacity. Plus, it is the first time Saints have been able to play this genuinely at home - and if you ask me they have nobly earned that right.
I agree with Saintslass that Wigan and Wire playing attractive opposition on the same week end could adversely affect Saints' crowd. And I agree that whether they play in front of 18k or 18 will hardly matter if they beat formidable opposition.
We are in somewhat unknown territory - the full WCC had some pretty poor crowds, whereas big event games have tended to be near capacity. We'll have to wait and see - fwiw I think Saints deserve and may well get a capacity crowd. After all, they got a big enough crowd for in the World Cup off the back, iirc, of little marketing. They know their rugby round there.

I think that's where our opinions differ. I don't think anyone should earn the right to have home advantage in this game. It is an event game for the sport, not just one of the two clubs in that match. It deserves more than to be just a home game. To me, it's like the equivalent of saying that the team that finishes top of the SL has earned the right to play at home in the GF. No one would ever dream of that given that we can get 70k at OT and I don't see why a game between the top two sides in the WORLD shouldn't be looking at that figure.

If we need a blank weekend to achieve that, then we should aim for that. I can understand that having other games on the same weekend is a reason we would struggle to achieve a huge figure, but not 18k. There is no reason why a club as big as Saints shouldn't be able to fill 18k for what is a big event game when they can take 20k+ to Old Trafford. Salford, maybe. Huddersfield, maybe. But not Saints.

If the thought process behind playing at a smaller ground is that they won't need to do much to fill it, then that says it all about the strategy for this event.


#3057122 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 18 January 2015 - 06:10 PM

For the same reason that Hull did and Leeds did.

I don't recall Hull being in the WCC?

You never get all the fans who turn up at a final turning up at home games.

If Saints fans are considering this as just a home game, then there in lays the problem, and shows exactly why this game should never be played at the home of that club.

You know that, other clubs' fans know that, and I have no idea why you and a few others are turning this thread into a whingefest about Saints fans when those who are moaning know full well that their own supporters don't all turn up to regular home games either.

THIS ISN'T A REGULAR HOME GAME!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but you are making some poor excuses. I really hope other Saints fans don't dismiss this game as just a regular home game in the same way you are.

There are different levels of fans in every sport and every club within every sport and that's the way it is. I'm very happy that all those casual fans who may otherwise just watch us on the telly in the pub turn up to finals because they help create the kind of great atmosphere that they helped to create in October last year at Old Trafford. Meanwhile those of us who want to follow the team week in ,week out live at the stadium do so. I don't go to away games because I can't afford to but I go to all home games. It really is tedious the way rugby league fans analyse attendances and always in a negative manner. I'm sure fans in other sports don't obsess in this way.

It's incredibly tedious that you keep trying to pass this game off, a World Championship game, as "just another game" that the "casual fans" won't go to.

This should be the biggest game in the club calendar. The fact that it's not is down to the clubs attitudes towards it. The RFL should be the ones in charge of this event if the clubs can't be bothered to promote it as more than a regular home game.


#3056906 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 18 January 2015 - 10:20 AM

I hope we take the England vs NZ game to the Olympic Stadium and it is a success. I think that would be a perfect home for the WCC. The RFL could announce it 2 years in advance (if it goes to Aus every other year) and really build up the event.


Or instead we could just hold it at the club's home ground and build it up as just another big home game that some locals can't even walk down to because there are some less significant games on down the road...


#3056815 WCC - sell outs?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 17 January 2015 - 11:19 PM

Leeds or Hull wouldn't have full houses if there were other similar games being played down the road on the same weekend!

Absolute tosh. There is no excuse for not selling 18,000 tickets for a World Club Championship trophy. It should be at a bigger stadium for a start. This should be a huge event.

This is why I was annoyed when clubs started taking this game to their home grounds. It stopped feeling like an event and started feeling like just another game (albeit a big one). The fact that you are trying to make excuses about not as many neutrals turning up (because of the other games) being a reason it hasn't sold out yet says it all about the perception of this game at the moment.


#3055131 USA Pioneers v Leeds: live streaming

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 13 January 2015 - 05:56 AM

There are no real negatives to this match. However, that doesn't stop people from finding their own. :rolleyes:

Let's not exaggerate, there is at least one negative - a huge scoreline. Could knock players' confidence and leave the spectators feeling deflated, whilst the other team barely have to exercise to play.

But in the context of the event as a whole, that hardly matters. Huge experience for both sets of players and fans alike. In perspective, the scoreline didn't matter. It was more about the experience and the event itself.


#3050946 Ambitious thunder have the super league in there sights

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 01 January 2015 - 08:19 PM

Have thunder released there new kit yet?

*their

Haven't you learned anything from this thread? :D


#3050706 High Profile SL Game in London 2016: Craven Cottage?

Posted by Wellsy4HullFC on 31 December 2014 - 03:31 PM

I don't see what is wrong with the original idea. With a decent budget behind it, I can't see why you couldn't get a big crowd for a Wigan v Leeds match at a modern stadium in London on a sunny, summer's day. The match will be good, we know that, and there are plenty of people in London who will pay good money for an event.

It's a good way of helping to promote the club game to those who don't watch Sky Sports or live in Radio Leeds/Manchester/Humberside area.

So why not just take the Magic Weekend there? Surely would make more sense?