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Rugby League Yearbook 2014-15

The Art of Hand and Foot

Member Since 23 Apr 2011
Offline Last Active Yesterday, 10:17 PM
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#3095458 Ian , Who?

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 26 March 2015 - 01:45 PM

Think he's trying to play mind games with the Oldham squad Tbh. Won't work. If there's one team we want to beat it's Rochdale.


#3094295 Rugby Oldham

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 24 March 2015 - 02:22 PM

Thanks Geoff. I must says that I've learned more from that one post than from anywhere else in the last few years. If only the the club would be as open and communicative then im sure more help would be available.


#3092698 Sheffield game

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 21 March 2015 - 03:33 PM

I, also can't see us winning, although stranger things have happened. If we can compete for at at least two thirds of the game I'll be happy.


#3092510 Rugby League needs to help

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 21 March 2015 - 08:18 AM

What is astounding to me Hand and Foot, is your failure to accept that no matter how committed we are, we can't 'do something'.

The club is uninvestable. It has liabilities which are massively higher than its assets. It has an appalling business reputation, it has exhausted or alienated all major funding sources, shows no forward planning, demonstrates no desire to engage with stakeholders and has a customer base of less than 500 people.

What business would you start from that position? As a business it has no credibility and is non viable.

By 'do something', what you mean is either give money to a club with a record of poor financial management OR give significant time and skill for free - with no guarantee that any of your ideas will be taken up or that you will be granted any rights or authority.

I'm sorry, but by definition, no one who has attained the money and/or skills necessary to save the club, is dumb enough to do either of those things. Even CH himself has stopped doing those things.

Please understand that the gripers' primary motivation is to see a sustainable future for RL in Oldham. We have never criticised CH's ability to attract players nor have we questioned the talent and commitment of the coaches and players.

I believe a new supporter owned club is the way forward. A new business would not have the millstone of debt around and its neck, and with new funding streams explored could appoint a commercial manager to oversee comms, marketing, sponsorship and fundraising. The board, including the head coach, commercial manager and elected supporter reps, together with a budget scrutiny committee would be responsible for financial management of the club.

Under the current business model, supporters will never have a true voice and even if they did, ANYONE operating that club has to carry round a £250k black hole, a stadium not fit for purpose and a bad business reputation.

We have to move to a new business model for professional rugby in Oldham.

My point is not that you can't do something, but if you are hoping to do something then do it. Get together, get funds, organize, decide who is going to do what, who's going to coach, who's going to play full back, where your going to play. My argument is the current business, no matter how bad, is a million miles ahead of you. It got team up and running. And a relatively decent team at that. Has any one of you got the contacts within the game? Would a coach of Scott Naylor's calibre or better think twice before joining your set up? Repeating yourself doesn't get things done. I know whats wrong and I'm still of the opinion that not turning up is not the answer.


#3092380 Rugby League needs to help

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 20 March 2015 - 11:01 PM

Being astounded at your naivety singe, is not slagging you off. Slagging off is what Superdude does. I disagree totally with your opinion. Now I'm sorry if if I don't think you are the answer to the clubs problems, But you're not. I try to use a well constructed argument as to why you won't succeed by just talking. If you are committed then d o something. My opinion.


#3092156 Rugby League needs to help

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 20 March 2015 - 04:48 PM

And the naivety of Hamilton in attempting to do all this on his own? Mr Foot it may not have registered but some people who write on here may actually run businesses and actually know what is involved.

As do I. But I do agree CH is naive, or proud, or stubborn.. He should ask for help. But actively trying to run the club down is not the way. It may seem counter intuitive to you but I believe the opposite to be true.


#3092006 Rugby League needs to help

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 20 March 2015 - 12:53 PM

Whilst you are correct that the 70's was hand to mouth. I suspect it was throughout our entire exitence.
But I do not agree about the basic marketing.
The answer is not to chuck money at things always. And certainly not do nothing because we don't have a big enough MArketing budget.
Keep it simple.
Basic web updates, Gatehead Thunder is an example.
Consistent FAcebook &.Twitter presence.
Engage with the Chron.
Get engaged and proactive fans, and can take the inevitable brickabats.
Develop the ground a little at a time. Engage people to help. Create a community involvement.
Little by little the crowds will not dwindle.
Even if the ground is not Roughtyeds ground, showers, a basic two or three tiered concrete standing should have been done by now by reaching agreement as a tenant. Comapratively small cost but all helping from archaic facilities to more reasonable facility.
Total the cost for that little lot over 3-4 years. It is not huge and grants could be obtained. But it all shows progress.

not talking about chucking money at it, I'm talking about initial set up costs and then day to day running costs. Cash flow to pay rent, rates, water, electricity, insurance, planning applications, safety checks, equipment etc etc. Then paying the coaches, medics, playing staff, groundsmen . All that before a ball is kicked. Your naivety astounds me. So stop the waffle and get on with it.prove me wrong.


#3091911 Rugby League needs to help

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 20 March 2015 - 10:14 AM

Saints 10 Coach.

The gripers are fans like you which includes some who are not happy at how the club is being run. They obviously have a different point of view than you but when they try to express their views you insult them.

Your second point states and infers a lot of things about the committee. How do you know what you state his true or it is an assumption on your part.

When the committee disbanded and were replaced by the bears directors,( who formed a plc ) they had far less debts than the bears or present club.

The difference was the club had 12.5 acres of land on which stood the ground, training pitch, a pavilion, a club house, a car park and a greyhound stadium. In addition the club had two houses where overseas players used to live whilst they were playing for the club.

It his possible that there are people who sit on committees do so for the blazer and prestige that it brings. However, the people who sat on Oldham's committee were fans and season ticket holders and elected by their fellow season ticket holders and would always talk and discuss things with the fans at matches.

Your comments about deep pockets is an insult to those committeemen who reached into their pockets and put their own money into the club as well as their season ticket costs. To imply otherwise is dangerous talk. Many have now passed away and I think there are about 5 or six committee members still living so find out who they are and ask them, tell them what you believe and see what they say.

Every year the accounts were produced for the season ticket holders at the annual general meeting and everyone of them had a vote on the various items on the agenda at the meeting. It was their club and the committeemen were part owners of the club who were given the responsibility to run it on their behalf.

When the Bears directors took over they eventually sold the ground for near to £3millon pounds and had over £1million pounds of debt when they folded with no assets, the shareholders lost all their money.

The board of directors had the majority of shares so could vote anything through.

The present club ( a private Ltd Company ) has debts of around £250k with no assets, no shareholders and no supporters involvement. The power is with the directors and in its history the club has had five directors with one remaining. No meetings no information about the clubs finance and yet the fans are expected to just turn up to matches, pay their money at the turnstile, pay to go into in the sponsors bar, sponsor the club and are asked to join the lottery. without any of their questions being addressed

In regard to CH you say you don't need to see him you just support the team which a lot of fans do. But on what is the money spent on and why are the debts so large. Unless supporters get the answer to these question in order to know how they can help there will soon be no team to support.

Sport today is run as a business to the detriment of the supporters. There are exceptions like Hunslet, Swinton and Rochdale and possibly more.

Now ask yourself a simple question.

Which one of the three types of business plans was the best.

From the 70's onwards the club living hand to mouth. The state of watersheddings was proof of that. The problem that we are facing now is not new, it's been around long as I can remember and that is no money coming in. To me the good old days were the eighties, the era of goodway, Flanagan kirwan and foy. But let's not kid ourselves we won nowt of note. Yes the 2nd division title and premierships and a few semis. But they were by no means halcyon days. Money isl and always has been the problem. Not turning up is not going to address that. I've heard talk of expertise in marketing, management, social media. But to be honest that's all it is talk. If you are serious and have serious clout then you would Do, not talk. So come on organise, get yourselves together raise the capital set it aside . If you think the club is going to go pop you should be ready. As for me, I give what I've got, my time. So I do what I can do. Oh I do do have expertise in strategic marketing, however that's useless without what's really needed. Money.


#3074420 Question. Who else owns their ground?

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 18 February 2015 - 08:24 PM

There's some debate as to whether Oldham owns whitebank!! Well half of it anyway because apparently the Queen owns the other half. Yep that's right her Maj owns the bottom half. You'd think she'd get her hands in her pocket and do it up a little for us.


#3047095 Positive move relating to playing side of club?

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 19 December 2014 - 01:47 PM

Superdeluded I am not inspired. I just don't share your method of how things can be improved. As long as there's a team called Oldham, then I will watch. You lost the argument and credibility the minute you started to insult and bully.


#3046862 Jason Boults

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 18 December 2014 - 10:45 PM

Great some 18YO front row to replace 10 years of pro experience!

At least Hand and Foot will be able to cheer him on!!!

Can't wait. Might even buy a pie and have a coffee as well. Have a laugh with the other 400 there. Then go for a pint , have a game of 9 card don. Then raise a glass or two to those who are missing out on the entertainment because they'd rather cut of their nose to spite their face.


#3043654 Bad News from companies House

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 11 December 2014 - 09:44 AM

TAOHAF Did your ex move you to a ###### which she never cleaned, insult all your mates and your employer, get you into loads of debt, cheat on you with a bigger and better off neighbour, only speak to you once a year.....but you still stayed with her years cos she made a decent Sunday dinner every week?

Finally, as soon as she had siphoned of your remaining funds for herself, did she leave you with the ###### and the debt and no mates and no job - to run off with the neighbour. Leaving you a shadow of your former self that no one else would take on.

Good grief. Just don't go. Your loss not mine.had enough of this thread now. Tosh , tangle etc see you at the start of the season.


#3043504 Bad News from companies House

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 10 December 2014 - 08:32 PM

Oh No Superdude has called me a cretin, that's convinced me by the qualty of his argument, he must've been right all along. How stupid of me, that's it I'm not going to go to any matches. Yeah right jog on. Can't wait for the season to begin.

Hang on a second..... just realised who Superdude is..... its my ex wife... has to be. she once said you loved Oldham rugby more than you love me.. I said I love Rochdale hornets more than I love you.


#3043152 Bad News from companies House

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 09 December 2014 - 09:58 PM

Whats CH's viable plan of action for what happens next?

Easy , put a team on the pitch and compete week in week out. Again, if the club goes bust there will be no team. Come on what's the plan?


#3042351 Bad News from companies House

Posted by The Art of Hand and Foot on 08 December 2014 - 09:37 AM

Why don't you check on countless other clubs that have done far worse including a certain club in the Capitol

as well as Bradford , Leigh, Sheffield, oh and we mustn't forget our cousins down the A627M who lost their shareholding in the ground.