Give the Hearns Magic Weekend and make it a 9s

[Bramstein]

20 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

It's hard to know whether it's failing or succeeding. What is its purpose?

Is it meeting/exceeding its targets or is it just surviving? 

Does anyone know?

I think the last part of your first question is fair enough. When it was first launched the idea, largely, was to exhibit the sport to a Welsh public before the launch of the Celtic Crusaders. Clearly it's original purpose has gone but I would argue it has become a decent enough event in itself. 

The nub of the matter for me is that 11 years on from the first incarnation it's still going and there isn't any sign that it's going to come to an end soon. I think, therefore, it's reasonable to infer that there's enough about this event that's working that makes the clubs deem it worthwhile. Ditto with the fans given the record attendance for the event was recorded two years ago. Now, we can argue that this figure should be bigger, but the fact is that since it moved to Newcastle the three biggest aggregate crowds in MW's history have been recorded. We don't know exactly what the targets are but, as we've discussed a lot on here previously, the RFL are not necessarily under any obligation to share targets with the public. Just like any other business.

There are clearly ways in which Magic could be improved. The idea of involving different teams seems reasonable enough and perhaps a way of doing this would be to stage a round of the challenge cup instead of Super League. It will be interesting to see the reaction to the Toronto v Toulouse game at this years event.

But, for me, you have to be more or less sure that what you'd replace the current format with would be better than what we currently have. Otherwise you're just changing things for the sake of change. 9's would definitely be in this category for me.

[Dave T]

44 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

I think the last part of your first question is fair enough. When it was first launched the idea, largely, was to exhibit the sport to a Welsh public before the launch of the Celtic Crusaders. Clearly it's original purpose has gone but I would argue it has become a decent enough event in itself. 

The nub of the matter for me is that 11 years on from the first incarnation it's still going and there isn't any sign that it's going to come to an end soon. I think, therefore, it's reasonable to infer that there's enough about this event that's working that makes the clubs deem it worthwhile. Ditto with the fans given the record attendance for the event was recorded two years ago. Now, we can argue that this figure should be bigger, but the fact is that since it moved to Newcastle the three biggest aggregate crowds in MW's history have been recorded. We don't know exactly what the targets are but, as we've discussed a lot on here previously, the RFL are not necessarily under any obligation to share targets with the public. Just like any other business.

The 'what is its purpose' question is always interesting.

If we look at a 2007 BBC article we see:

1 - If the proposal is agreed, Super League 2007 will be reduced by one round. Each club will play 13 home and 13 away fixtures plus the game 'on the road', freeing up a weekend for a mid-season Test match.

2 - The Welsh Tourist Board and Cardiff Council are both understood to be willing to offer a cash incentive of up to £500,000 to persuade clubs to back the move.

3 - A Rugby Football League spokesman said: "Super League is a tremendously successful competition and we are always looking for opportunities to showcase this.

4 - The move would be seen as testing the water for a possible new Welsh Super League franchise in 2009

In 2008, Sally Bolton said:

"We are delighted to announce these new and exciting details of the Magic Weekend. After successfully introducing the concept in 2007 and 2008 and firmly establishing it in the Rugby League calendar, we believe our plans for 2009 will take the event to the next level and offer supporters a unique family entertainment experience. A number of cities had expressed an interest in hosting this event but we believe this new location has all the right ingredients to continue its development.

"The concept of the Magic Weekend is all about taking the sport on the road and staging the Super League in prestigious and exciting cities."

-----------------------------

I think originally it was an opportunity to stage an event in Wales on the back of successful Challenge Cup Finals while new Wembley was being built, and we had somebody prepared to fund that, at a time when we were giving RL a push in Wales via Crusaders. 

It quite clearly wasn't all about pushing SL franchises though as demonstrated by the move to Scotland in year 3 - there was no sign of a Scottish franchise, but there was somebody prepared to fund it in a prestigious city.

I personally think it is a great event that can tick quite a few boxes:

- major event for broadcasters and sponsors

- prestigious stadium and city for fans, offering variety for the season.

- can support local development in the area

- takes SL to new areas

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Don' get the obsession with a nines competition. There was one run a few years back and was poorly attended.  

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Don' get the obsession with a nines competition. There was one run a few years back and was poorly attended.  

TBF I don't think we should use that one as a reason to dismiss the idea (although I share your cynicism around it).

There is enough evidence to suggest that there is a market for these kind of festivals via Rugby 7's and Magic Weekend (and the NRL or World Nines on the other side of the world).

Just having a load of young lads most fans won't have heard of wearing your kit on a Thursday night at Headingley is never going to draw a crowd. It either needs to be staged as a prestigious event in a major ground or not at all.

[Toby Chopra]

Keep Magic as it is, it's the easiest way to showcase SL at its best, but let's a have a couple of years in the south while Newcastle is unavailable. Very few southerners travel up to Newcastle. Maybe Coventry, but my preference would be Olympic Park. Plenty of space for fan village and also v close to Westfield bars and restaurants. We know from Internationals the are 15,000 or more southerners willing to watch top class RL if promoted right. (*Edits to add: The Hearns know East London so also could do a good job with a Stratford Magic)

A club based nines isn't going to broaden the reach of the sport, although a 9s World cup might, because people will watch most things that has the national flag on it.   

[Bramstein]

One of the reasons I'm sceptical about 9's is that, other than the fewer players, I don't think it's sufficiently different from 13 a side to make it stand out as an event on it's own.

7's stands out in RU because it's almost unrecognisable from the arcane 15 player version and offers a fast, easier to comprehend alternative. Ditto T20 cricket works as it's a clear alternative to first class cricket. 

And whilst 7's is usually talked up by RU do these things actually draw big crowds? Whenever I see an event on the world series they have the stadium is usually 4/5 empty (maybe I've just stumbled on the wrong one). A cursory glance of reports from last season's Auckland 9's suggests 22,000 attended both days but that's hardly earth shattering is it?

[Dave T]

15 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

One of the reasons I'm sceptical about 9's is that, other than the fewer players, I don't think it's sufficiently different from 13 a side to make it stand out as an event on it's own.

7's stands out in RU because it's almost unrecognisable from the arcane 15 player version and offers a fast, easier to comprehend alternative. Ditto T20 cricket works as it's a clear alternative to first class cricket. 

And whilst 7's is usually talked up by RU do these things actually draw big crowds? Whenever I see an event on the world series they have the stadium is usually 4/5 empty (maybe I've just stumbled on the wrong one). A cursory glance of reports from last season's Auckland 9's suggests 22,000 attended both days but that's hardly earth shattering is it?

I think they are a bit of a mixed bag tbh. I was just reading about the Scotland leg of the World Series for RU 7's and it had been moved from Murrayfield around 5 or 6 years ago to the smaller Scotstoun in Glasgow with a capacity of 15k per day. This did sellout, but it shows that even for perceived big events like this, it will be a challenge for RL to be getting more than the 60-70k that Magic currently does.

I think the only way I would support the replacement of Magic Weekend was it was for a proper international nines comp.

[Bramstein]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think they are a bit of a mixed bag tbh. I was just reading about the Scotland leg of the World Series for RU 7's and it had been moved from Murrayfield around 5 or 6 years ago to the smaller Scotstoun in Glasgow with a capacity of 15k per day. This did sellout, but it shows that even for perceived big events like this, it will be a challenge for RL to be getting more than the 60-70k that Magic currently does.

I think the only way I would support the replacement of Magic Weekend was it was for a proper international nines comp.

Yes that would be good. It's good that the commonwealth championship is being held again after a successful introduction in 2014. 

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

TBF I don't think we should use that one as a reason to dismiss the idea (although I share your cynicism around it).

There is enough evidence to suggest that there is a market for these kind of festivals via Rugby 7's and Magic Weekend (and the NRL or World Nines on the other side of the world).

Just having a load of young lads most fans won't have heard of wearing your kit on a Thursday night at Headingley is never going to draw a crowd. It either needs to be staged as a prestigious event in a major ground or not at all.

And the last para could be the threat - whether Clubs would release headline players.  

To work, IMO, the Prize has to be worth gambling injuries for.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Bramstein said:

Yes that would be good. It's good that the commonwealth championship is being held again after a successful introduction in 2014. 

It is, but there is hardly a whole load of effort in it. I enjoyed the last one but i dont really know the selection criteria or owt. The Aussies just picked from one club and actually had a couple of Kiwis playing for them iirc.

I dont know why we dont do anythinv properly.

The England team is not really an RFL England team is it?

[Bramstein]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It is, but there is hardly a whole load of effort in it. I enjoyed the last one but i dont really know the selection criteria or owt. The Aussies just picked from one club and actually had a couple of Kiwis playing for them iirc.

I dont know why we dont do anythinv properly.

The England team is not really an RFL England team is it?

I suppose it depends what you mean by RFL England team?

If we let it continue hopefully things will gradually improve. It would be a shame to get rid of it just because things aren't perfect.

Bit like the Magic Weekend, to get back on point

[Dave T]

11 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

I suppose it depends what you mean by RFL England team?

If we let it continue hopefully things will gradually improve. It would be a shame to get rid of it just because things aren't perfect.

Bit like the Magic Weekend, to get back on point

This is nines so loosely on topic

I certainly dont want them to get rid, i want them to take it seriously. If we dont, why will they?

All that said, watching PNG win it last time in Cumbernauld is a brilliant memory.

[Bramstein]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This is nines so loosely on topic

I certainly dont want them to get rid, i want them to take it seriously. If we dont, why will they?

All that said, watching PNG win it last time in Cumbernauld is a brilliant memory.

Well, this is it.

The biggest RU 7's event is the Hong Kong version I would have said. When it first started England hardly ever bothered with it. Certainly not in the form of a formal England team being sent over. But eventually they decided to take part on a formal basis and people were genuinely interested in seeing the skills of the other nations taking part. 

I think something has to become a serious event in a more natural way than perhaps we all want, sometimes. You can't just invent a tournament and say take this seriously please.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Bramstein said:

Well, this is it.

The biggest RU 7's event is the Hong Kong version I would have said. When it first started England hardly ever bothered with it. Certainly not in the form of a formal England team being sent over. But eventually they decided to take part on a formal basis and people were genuinely interested in seeing the skills of the other nations taking part. 

I think something has to become a serious event in a more natural way than perhaps we all want, sometimes. You can't just invent a tournament and say take this seriously please.

I have to admit, if I was in charge of deciding sports for Commonwealth games, RL Nines wouldnt be anywhere near. We dont really play nines other than at some low levels around Europe.

Even the NRL nines just has its own rules and stuff.

Staging a tournament 4 years ago for some amateur lads in a random stadium outside Glasgow and then doing the same this year on the Gold Coast isnt development and we should be told to beggar off to be honest.