del capo

Has anyone tried to park at Moor Lane Salford yet ? And the electric car tax is only round the corner.......

Not at all. Full time professionalism should be the aim for the very best clubs just as in all other sports. But it's not a case of 'back to the good old days ' the vast majority of our pro clubs are still part time and yet provide an enjoyable watch. The issue here is ' Does the game get value for money ' for the millions it has spent on the current set ups , or is there a better less expensive way of acquiring the product. For me there is / has to be - but turkeys and christmas springs to mind for starters.....

I agree the issue is not Binary. At my own Community club , pre Academy etc, the likes of Edwards , both Gregory's , Lydon , Joynt, Platt , Fieldhouse ( before going into a hundred more ) seemed to make the transition without the route you advocate , All went into the first team within their respective Pro clubs plan. Would you be uncomfortable putting any of them into a current SL team? Michael Maguire 's first port of call was at my club to ask who were the best local youth coaches. He then just ' professionalised ' them . No value added- just paid them for what they were already doing. Scholarships are a disaster, Academies less so as at least for the moment the kids are all on paid contracts. Reserve grade though is essential. You ask for alternatives. Finances are bringing the SL clubs to a brutal truth. They now seem to be having to cut £80k each from their kids budget. My answer is simple - Stop biting the hand that used to feed you and do something about it.......

No place for flat caps , woodbines and whippets then. Is this what they call ' levelling up ' in the Sarf

Yes . But a new 8-10 k stadium at Agecroft should be an answer for both of them. Land and planning ready to go. Day release from Forest Bank prison next door would almost double the crowd........

The funding comes from SL via the TV contract not the RFL. The same for the Foundations. S L clubs clearly deciding where to spend their monies. As for that ' No players no Sport ' comment from Man of Kent, the Academy system to an extent and the Scholarship one without doubt has been the single biggest contributor to the decline of what was once a great conveyor belt of talent from the Community game.......

Totally agree but they don't always have our facilities. Saddleworth Rangers for instance in the NCL make a tidy weekly sum from car parking fees off sometimes ' posh ' Manchester commuters living on the Moors.....

Can the SL / RFL please issue the 2022 fixtures as soon as possible ? Announcing a start date only at this stage is just a tease. I want to sort out my holidays in the South of France for a fortnight before the prices go through the roof and hope to take in a couple of games down there. Some weekenders might be of a similar mind. Anyone on here thinking the same or is it just me ?

Training barns , gym facilities, 3 and 4 g pitches have long been a source of revenue , even caravan pitches in our prettier outlets. Morris dancing , yoga classes and so on are de rigueur. We are Community after all ( with most of our grants based on multiple use ) but there is no reason why such activities cannot benefit the rugby sections financially. Good to see Hemel taking a well trodden route........

A club needs to be accepted in to Tier 3 ( League 1 ) by the RFL as semi professional or allowed by the relevant Competition Management in Tiers 4 and 5 to pay their players and still play in that competition. It's all in the Operational Rules. Absolute minefield if the latter is allowed. In the proven Tier 4 the NCL will simply not allow it . If the RFL pushed for it in their own controlled Tier 5 competitions certainly in the traditional areas they could well face rebellion. Tier 4 South - the Southern Conference - would have existing clubs question the continued integrity of the competition if this were allowed but if their whole League by club vote wants to go that way then why not? At Tier 5 if however the semi pros played there the fledgling West of England or Midlands Leagues would likely disintegrate virtually overnight. I've only heard of the All Golds and the Jaguars suggesting their future lies this way. I am not aware that they have been ' blessed ' by the RFL to pursue this route so far. But who knows ? I think that these 2 clubs , based in strong RU ' boot money ' areas feel they need to pay players to build a squad , in spite of the fact they have not yet effectively turned sides out to play. All Golds lost their last two regional games by over 100 points. They want to run before they can walk . Take the Coventry RLFC path would be my advice- but that is probably too long term for these guys and therein lies the problem. Stress tested Business plans lodged with the RFL ? All Golds plans getting traction on the General Forum but I appreciate impact on the Amateurs may not be being clocked. Over to you Mr Moderator

The point I have tried to make is that yes since the 2.5m cap was withdrawn Latics have paid top dollar in wages for freed up players rather than as yet paying large transfer fees - a complaint already levelled at them by many other Div 1 clubs .....

This years wage bill for the 54 Home Squad players at Division 1 Latics is £2.88 m per year , or £54.4 k per week. Probably another reason Leneghan decided to leave the football part to others........and their current squad has been largely picked up on free transfers rather than having to pay mega bucks each time. Literally speaking a whole different ball game to RL.

The Administrators ( and the EFL ) were not prepared to separate the soccer club from the stadium and the other assets. I think the soccer club was worth no more than £1. - the stadium and other land worth upwards of £3m. Lenegan didn't want to run a soccer club again but bid over the book value for the stadium. Someone then sold the Bahreinis a vision that Latics could get back into the Premier League within the foreseeable future and so much Gulf money is now flowing into them that they should get out of Div 1 fairly easily before the harsh reality of the football Championship hits them. Not much use to Wigan RL . Whilst they have the right to rent virtually forever the figure is renewable within the next couple of years and aren't Wigan at present paying a yearly rent approx £500k less than for instance Hull FC for that soccer stadium? The Bahreinis don't need the income from multiple tenants. Possible tough times ahead for the cherry and whites.

I suspect that if these clubs want to pay their players they will have to join League 1 ( Tier 3 ). The Operational rules for Tier 1-3 are comprehensive when it comes to player status and the paperwork needed. Otherwise yes it is just 'Boot ' money - not the picture I suspect they want to present. Tier 4 -6 Operational rules do not cater for contracted players and were never envisaged to do so. The game has become ' open ' in the sense that it is available to all - dual registration ( for all but the NCL ) and League 1 clubs for instance being able I believe to register up to !0 amateurs. If they want to pay their players above board all sorts of implications arise - tax and NI, employee protection and rights , maybe pensions etc. Good job that the All Golds directors are a retired lawyer and an accountant - even though one of the rugby companies is dormant and the other seems to be in debt. They will need RFL approval whether they re-join Tier 3 or seek to play as semi pro in the tier 4 Southern Conference. I can only assume these guys have been having such conversations prior to the issuing of their Press Release.........

I believe that NCL Champions Thatto Heath Crusaders will be playing the British Army in the near future to celebrate their new floodlights. That should be fun !

Hunt and Denning ( both have sharp business brains ) for the NCL went through the books at the RFL offices at Salford Quays several months ago. They were shown breakdown figures and it costs £700k approx to service the 'core' community game each year. 7 employees at a cost of approx £200k totally dedicated to just that for starters. Sport England have told the RFL they will no longer pay for that type of expenditure., preferring instead to fund the 'expansion ' stuff - disability, women etc... This levy will raise approx £400k each year, substantially short of what is really needed and nothing will be spilling over to the Pro game. Who pays for that going forward ? The RFL can't and the pro game won't. All community clubs have had the picture presented to them more than once. Some Leagues think they can get appropriately qualified volunteers to provide the same services the RFL currently give., Really? Where from ?

Duties ( and not withstanding that my sheer love for the Community Game would have got me here anyway ) took me today to Featherstone's Millennium Stadium for the NCL triple header Finals. The best on offer at Tier 4. What an enjoyable day ! I'm told that Kells set off before 6 am ( their choice on the scheduling - but with stop-over more than hearty breakfast included ) . Wath Brow followed an hour or so later. Coach Rooney as always in command. Take note - Game preparation has never been confined just to SL alone ! At Fev solid partisan but always respectful crowd for the 6 clubs. 2361 paying spectators declared for the day. Our League Internet cover figures not yet available. Featherstone no doubt made a fortune over the bar. I know this 'cos I was sat with more than a few club committee men watching the tills and the queues..... As for the games themselves I can't praise the various participants any higher.. All the lads on the park did absolutely everything they could. Respect and congratulations. But what do I really take comfort out of today ? Not the NCL - it will again remain the Beacon for the game where it really counts. But today Ben Thaler and Liam Moore were in the gallery looking at the refs for the future. Just like the rest of us they are doing their job.... But looking to maybe even next year - get better before any immediate transfer to pro level... For our today games two teenagers officiated from the spot . And stood out really well. An 18 year old in the last match today but over a full season's effort was declared NCL ref of the year. Long path yet to travel no doubt but perhaps are we looking at our first BAME senior official ?

Without wishing to be moved to the NCL forum, - for this year and next club membership fees are waived. Travel grants are coming out of NCL funds for the 2021 season. It costs I believe circa £18 k per year to run the Competition. The member clubs have all the previous years accounts. Sponsorship deals have run their course and all future opportunities seem to have been handed over to the new RFL taskforce - clarification is being sought there. The vast majority of income comes from misbehaviour.. As that improves the Bank balance goes down. But for instance to assist refs coaches and players alike ( not to mention the Discipline Committee ) the costing of head / body cams for officials and A1 cameras for clubs is at present being undertaken - if pursued its the sort of expenditure that should be met centrally. The NCL management try to work on the basis of nil income for a year and 2 years worth of expenditure being in the Bank to cover all corners. It is hoped that Rep football will be back on the agenda when we get back to normality in 2022 and with it centrally met overheads. As a simple illustration of expenditure take next weeks Finals at Featherstone . For just the facilities and food it is costing £2400 - and that's a great deal. Officials . trophies , medical staff etc on top of that. The NCL has no desire to be a savings bank. In reality it costs the clubs who actually behave nothing to be part of it. 2 clubs have resigned for next season but expressions of interest already received from another 5. It would appear that strong but fiscally prudent management offering quality weekly fixtures still has its attractions

I always try to choose my words carefully Impartial NOW means just that. And yes no amateur clubs get money from the RFL. Instead through our members we will henceforth be paying approx 400k p a initially to help pay the wages of the Community team and run the show The RFL do a great job in sourcing other peoples money for us and Russell does a brilliant job on a club by club basis. That represents the biggest selling point in favour of the new membership fees , alongside maintaining the existing services. The point I was seeking to emphasise is the continuing reliance by the pro game on handouts whilst the amateurs have to be totally self reliant. Irish has asked about my type of concrete mix. Money is everything. It makes the world go round. That's the cement and you don't need masses of it according to a builder friend of mine. It's the Aggregates that count. The better the Aggregates the stronger the concrete. We have 300 + community clubs. We should start by targeting them all to assess and then secure their sustainability . My Aggregates would start with facilities fit for this century. Clubhouses and enough decent surfaces to play on. We are it seems well on the way here - 9 out of the 10 Wigan clubs for instance now have the use of up to date clubhouse facilities. Next would be playing membership. Every club should be pushed / shoved / whatever into moving towards fielding 20 or so teams each throughout all ages and both sexes. Schools should be re engaged urgently and linked to local outlets ( the PE pupil payments specifically encourage this ) . Solutions have to be found to the teenage drop out problems even if some of the answers won't suit some in the pro game. We need to get far more of the 800,000 kids introduced to RL by Sky Try into our club formats. And the pro clubs who have previously benefitted from that investment MUST themselves replace it now it has gone. This is a much tougher proposition but if we could say double our numbers then we would ipso facto double our top level as well - who wouldn't have two Sam Tomkins rather than just one ? And my final Aggregate is the most important one of all - the volunteer workforce. You will not get any of the above without an army of willing helpers. If all clubs had more of them we would be in so much stronger a place. Increasing those has to be the number One target. That's where our development / liaison officers should for me be most active ( if we ever get the money to get them back ! ). Most League 1 clubs could do worse than follow the structures the community game has adopted. And most of them sit in areas where they would not be upsetting existing outlets for our game. It's the only Sustainable way . If you have a large playing membership with bar and function facilities social membership will follow and the club income created will allow you to pay your first team if you so choose. That's how for instance Preston Grasshoppers RU manage to pay a couple of St Pats players during the winter season ( along with the rest of their first team squad ) The growth will then surely follow.

One of those rare and magical moments in RL history - ' and gentlemen in England now - a - bed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here ' Blood and guts from a team of Englishmen including an incredible 8 Wigan St Patrick's players ( sole ' foreigner ' Graeme West as a substitute didn't get on ) but maybe it was those 50000 wearing the 18th man shirt who carried the night. Watch that video and listen to them... Me and the missus were in the massive queues at the colin street entrances and Wigan simply threw open the gates at that end with the stewards taking the ticket monies from those with the right change by hand to ease the pressure. After the game was the biggest party Wigan Lane has ever seen since Cromwell's lot had a go at the Parish church in the Civil War. Pubs ran dry. Last bells were ignored even by the bar staff. The Bowling Green was still hard at it well after midnight..... That video well worth another viewing. And the most satisfying part of it ? Listening to those whingeing Aussies in the after match interviews trying to work out what had just happened to them........

Rest assured my friends that ALL posts on these pages on ALL subjects are read by the powers that be.......just as it should be. And action often taken thereafter. Keep your fingers working .. !

Across the various recent posts I see talk of re-structure, loss of central revenue and consequent club failure or regression to amateur status. Soggy fairly nihilistic stuff. Let me tell you that Tier 4 ( the top non pro level ) remains in a reasonable state. But as for a Pyramid ? We were supposed to feature both up and down on a ladder that the RFL has never implemented, but never mind. It's clearly a busted flush at present. We now get absolutely no financial support from the RFL. Our clubs have to be self sufficient because within the game there is no one willing or able to help. Just let that sink in. We totally are on our own financially. Lip service to the fact that the Community game underpins the whole of the pro game all the way to SL is just that. Blah Blah Blah as some kid on tv just said. Fingers crossed the foundations of our game can survive without anyone paying for the concrete that needs to be poured - because they can't or won't.. Which leads me to those foundations. On Sat 16th oct the NCL have their Finals at Featherstone ( a club that whatever else understands what we are as a community game ). Starting at at 11.45 we have Kells v West Hull followed by the big one Wath Brow v Thatto Heath and then St Helens based Clock Face Miners v East Leeds. Yes the best of all 3 counties on offer. To my many keyboard friends I ask that you take a rain check and get there if you can. You'll see 6 clubs with probably almost 2000 playing members between them having a go. It will be serious fun . And will refresh the ' half empty glass ' guys amongst you . Even produce some happier posts ? For the rest of you we are trying to get Our League to cover some if not all of it. And as for that Pyramid - if someone would pay for that concrete to be poured where it needs to be they would get a more solid structure and an incredible ultimate return - all the way to the top.

It happens at every Community game I watch and has done for years......

Today I took in Heworth of York. What a delightful , leafy suburb in one of the most affluent cities of the North. And their facilities do not let them down. 3 perfectly mowed and barriered pitches , small stand and decent clubhouse with newly extended changing facilities.. Heworth Cricket club also on site ( well it is Yorkshire ) as well as York Hockey club ( with a golf course across the road ) But the jewel in the crown - pro clubs please take note - is that the facility is owned by the club and bought for about £6k years ago as little more than a farmers field , legendary club stalwart Kenny Sykes the ex Hunslet forward being instrumental amongst others in Heworth's development from thereon in What took me there was the NCL play off game between Heworth and the ever mighty Castleford Lock Lane. Superb struggle in an expansive game that went to a third period ( yes ) of golden point extra time before the Lane snatched it . Large friendly crowd very appreciative - ref had a good game but yet again lacked help from absent touch judges - RL need to get a grip here - these are top matches. There is a clear buzz about RL in York these days. Before that called in at West Bowling who were entertaining Dewsbury Moor also in the NCL play offs. What a complex they are now party to ! Horsfall stadium , home to Bradford Park Ave is now shared by them. A World Cup grant of £200+ k is securing even more changing rooms and the 4g pitch is being played on 24/7. 3 or 4 grass fields at the back will revert to rugby shortly. The main stand can fit 1000+ sitting. And yes - this is Yorkshire - there is a well used cricket wicket on the site. But what impresses is the enthusiasm of everyone involved in the club , from the Chair running the line for the pre match academy game against Hunslet Parkside to the Head coach in his pre match 'zone '. Don't say this too often as a Red Rose man but Yorkshire was a good day out today.........

Coyd and Clayton were able to get their bosses to agree that the Forces should play RL largely by aligning our sports attributes with those cherished by the Forces - physical and mental toughness , structure and game plan teamship. stubbornness never to be beat and yes off the cuff flair at critical times. That works both ways. The Forces have just shy of 200 k fit and able personnel between them. Even the top Community sides are now wary of meeting them, Don't forget that the Dark Side spread their game worldwide on the backs of the UK military playing it in their spare time........ A potential growth area not to be undervalued or overlooked.