RP London

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 15 2010, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Have another read at my original post. My original post ASKED if it was BS ! I did not say it was BS because I don't know the exact details. Please don't mis quote me. i paraphrased, apologies exact quote "No and neither can anyone else - the cynic in me says it was just BS to get P7R scrapped and will be forgotten." just becuase we couldnt put the exact figures down you decided or sorry "the cynic in" you decided it was BS to keep with your agenda of franchising not working.. all you had to do was do a little tiny bit of research yourself to silence the critic... touch too easy though.. best just to jump to conclusions.

a quick google while i have 2 minutes came up with this Dave Hadfields column in 2007.. says about the reduction over the years an explanation on the wigan fas forum showing that the "non federation trained" alowance is being reduced towards 2011 not a big fan of wikipedia for facts but it says it here too about the reductions Rugby League forums has it too.. i think lifted from wiki though relague.com article about Bradford and Simon Finnegan,. reading through it it explains about dwain chabers would need to be top 8 non federation trained this year but next yar would need to be top 6 as they reduce the number of non federation trained players you can have seriously a very quick google shows it isnt BS it is happening.. as much as we talk ruibbish on here sometimes we do know what we are talking about a lot of the time (more than hapy to admit when we are wrong aswell fr the most part or when unsure) but just dont hold all the exact facts at the forefront of our brain becuas ethere are more important things there.. (you could have googled this yourself to be fair to try and prove it is BS rather than just saying "it bs becuase you dont know the exact details"!)

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 14 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1) No and neither can anyone else - the cynic in me says it was just BS to get P7R scrapped and will be forgotten. 3) Lets not put a ploy on words - of course players can sign for anyone they want, but if they are lured from club A to club B with the promise of a pay day that club A cannot match, then club B has, O.K, "taken" them away from club B. I have never blamed a player for following the bigger money - far from it, but I was merely pointing out that it has happened forever in my time of watching RL. 4) Yes in this modern age Junior clubs do nurture the yougsters from a very early age with a disgusting amount of recompense, but in the days of not so long ago such junior set ups did not exist on the scale they do now. For instance in my area and in my teenage years any one who had ambitions of playing RL at a professional level went training initially with the under 17's - progressing to under 19's. My club signed many players from this age group not amatuer RL. So in those days you could say it was the schools who first developed the young Rugby players with no recompense at all. 1.. its not BS its just that we havent got th info on the top of our heads becuase its not that important a peice of knowledge for our day to day lives.. there are many rules and regulations of the sweet manufacturing industry i could quote you as i need to but sadly RL laws on quotas i dont know.. i just know the basic idea that it is reducing..

personlly i think a champ 1 side in ireland and scotland is doable at the moment with the countries at the stages they are in.. Gates wise to be competative/comparative they wouldnt need that much but they would need ot be in the right place.. ie with Ireland GAA takes place around now so they need ot make sure they are somwhere that doesnt necessarily clash so heavily with it but with good access. easier said than done i know.. They would also need to make sure that that club supports the structure belwo it.. IMO a 6 team league below it with funding given to it by the RLI and the semi pro club, joint sponsorship/marketing etc etc all feeding in.. They are at the right stage, interest is there to build upon.. whether they are RU clubs giving RL a go or not i dont see as being that important when setting up the CC1 club becuase what they need is support, you will be able to pull the players over with the offer of pay (they may not be fantastic but look at the scorpions in an area that pas well for RU).. its the species and if RL is gaining an interest foothold even if it is RU players wanting a peak then this is a good thing (the RU vs RL thinking may well not be so strong.. as is the case in many of hte areas RL is targetting in London.. the kids dont care about the antagonism of yesteryear they just want to play a game or watch a game they enjoy be that RL or RU or even both). What it really needs though is someone to fund it, fund the staff needed, fund the plaers wages, fund the rent of the stadium and training facilities whilst the sponsorship is put in place and while waiting for hte season to start and gate moeny to come in.. Sponsors dont grow on trees at the moment and so that funding may have to coninue for a while.. to me that is the key.. it may not be overly expensive to set up a CC1 club but is there anyone hanging about that has the mony to invest to get it off the ground.. at the moment my guess is no so are the RFL able to step into the breach.. again my guess at the moment is no.. but that doesnt mean it wouldnt be a good idea.

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 14 2010, 02:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What is the present quota level and what is the programme for it's reduction ? As overseas contracts expire surely they should not be replced by new overseas players - if we are serious at reducing imports. I do agree that overseas players can be an asset but I would limit it to one per club - providing that player is a current international. We have seen so much money thrown at countless Aussies in the twilight of their careers, over here for a working holiday to boost their retirement fund. last sentence i think we would all agree on and which is why it is changing.. cant remember the exact numbers but it is coming down by 1-2 a year.. its being done by the having to have x federation trained players, y youth academy etc.. problem is you cannot do the "once their contract is over you cant replace them" becuase that damages potentially a club (and certainly means they are playing to a different set of rules) that uses short term contracts because they do not want to be left with dud players for too long.

i woudl say yes becuase although wigan are being made strnger by these players being brought in (arguably) it is not at the expense of someone else.. however, this sort of movement is acceptable as its a brit to a brit.. LMS going to Saints would be great for the quins academy in a way as it shows how good he has become to go to someone like Saints.. i just hope if he did go he would get game time that would helpo him progress and that quins can bring someone else through to replace him.

yes but these are aspirations not being able to do in the next couple of years.. there will be plans in placve.. some of them maybe stretching 20 years with goals for each year.. those plans may well hae been put back with goals being missed due to the financial restraints in place at the moment.. but we certainly are not ready to jump in with both fet into ireland and scotland.

QUOTE (Jimmy B @ Jul 14 2010, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As regards more opportunity for developing younger home grown players, surley it is the number of imports playing in our game not the quality. Replacing, in your words, Sh*t Aussies with beter quality Aussies makes not one iota of dufference as regards first team opportunity for a young player. I repeat, one of the reasons for franchising, so we were led to believe, was to was to improve the development of home grown youngsters. Unless we reduce the numbers of imports how can this be ? - Or are you sayng let those clubs at the top of the pyramid who can afford the Aussies have them, and leave the development of future GB internnationals to those who may not be so fortunate financially in the lower half of SL ? no i;m not saying that otherwise quite frankly that is what i would have said.. and i shall repeat (although its very boring) Franchising was brought in for many many reasons.. one was to enable teams to not be affraid to try out the youngsters with fear of relegation.. this is working.. teams at the bottom used to bring in journeymen aussies to try and save them and if they were promoted would do the same to try and stave of relegation the next year.. withfranchising you can finnish bottom every year and not get relegated if you are playing a good bunch of yongsters, your youth strucutre is good and the stadium is good.. the quota system is being reduced but this canot be done in one fell swoop it has to be reduced gradually due to teams haveing contractual agreements in place and it would cost them a fortune to rip them up and send their aussies home. the point i was making is that i would rather see clubs who are bringing in imports (which they are allowed to do) within their quota bring in quality imports rather than bringing in dross to make up the numbers.. dross that could easily be british dross.. by having the better quality quota players it means our youngsters are learning from some of hte best in the business like hoffman, finch, quinn etc.. and so when those players come through they will be better for it.. there are quite a few youngsters coming thorugh the top teams and they are looking useful, gb internationals in fact.. remember in the past some of our players would have gone over to the NRL in the offseason and learn there.. they dont have that chnce now.. We need foreign players in the game.. i say need i am sure we could do without but the game may not be so good but we certainly dont NEED to be purely british in players, aslong as the foreign players coming into the game add to the teams and to the competition and these players will.. much more so than the journeymen brought over to save clubs from instant relegation.. that is what franchising was going to hlep (again this takes time as contracts take time to run out) but with the help of the salary cap and the Quota.. Fracnchising CANNOT solve everything on its own.

parky i know all that.. i was saying it was NOT a stick to beat franchising with.. Jimmy B Post number 5 on this topic was saying that franchising was supposed to stop this but obviously it was just BS from the RFL and they just wanted to get rid of P&R etc etc.. i was pointing out that franchising wasnot there to stop good imports coming along..

then how dare you come on here and comment on the forming of clubs in other areas if you are not prepared to move there, get a new job and deal with that area instead of continuing with the expansion in your own area!!! to be honest i think part of it is time on the development side.. they have good coaches and DO style coaches in ireland and i believe scotland but the funding isnt there for more, chicken and egg a little here.. but also they dont have the time whilst dealing with the clubs and the leagues and their issues to get into setting up semi pro clubs which is quite a major task and needs a major backer to help with the above to get hem going.. i thnk it is an aim but needs toget a few peices in place together to be able to push that aim through.. I would suspect there are plans out there for this but they need some of those peices to come together and present economic climate those peices just arent coming in.

right.... even if melbourne off load all these second teir players they will still go well .. watching them on premier sports when the kids come in like Duffie, Justin ONeil, Widdop et al add to that the depth in their forwards and they look fantastic... if the rest are like that they will do just fine, maybe not play off winners first couple of years but they are bascially restarting and they look ok with it.. Wigan cannot sign that many there are limits to how many ussies they can have in the side and how much money they can spend.. so lets not worry about them getting a side full of ex melbourne stars. Wigan would need to get rid of some of their sh*(t impots and bring in some quality imports.. shame.. that means Tomkins will learn off Finch, other Tomkins can learn off Hinchcliffe, other players can learn off quality rather than learning of poorer imports.. this isnt a bad thing Dominance of wigan over everyone else.. first lets see what happens teams dont always gel, but has that damaged the NRL with the supposed dominance of melbourne, were peopl saying the NRL is screwed becuase of it (until the cheating reared its head obviously). Leeds have won the last 3 titles, Leeds and Saints have dominaed the league.. so will Wigan taking this over agian do it more damage? Franchising was meant to help the kids etc.... Frachising was meant to do many things.. one was to encourage using kids rather than buying in over the hill 2nd rate aussies for quick results, it was meant to make teams give youth a chance.. these top class imports will come in to replace these less good imports not supement them so its not less chance for gb stars its the same chance just better imports to play with and learn off.. the quota system is also there to help reduce the imports not just franchising.. if you look at the botto of the table sides there is amuch better spread of young talent rather than imports than there was and that was what franchising was there to help as well asget stadiums sorted and get youth academies sorted etc etc it was meant to do many things but this one change ofsh*t imports for good imports is nota stick to beat franchising with.. right i think thats all off my chest

they need to either put the money in themselves.. (the RFL that is) or find someone prepared to fund the venture.. RFL isnt loaded and probably doesnt have a spare 1/2million to throw around willy nilly there arent loads of people queueing up at the moment out hand out money.. if there had been no leighton samuels arguably there would have been no celtic crusaders and even with himit was nearly over int he summer.. Ireland would need one man to step forward and start a club, they would have horrific travelling every week for what would be a semi pro club and would need large amounts of money to try and get things sorted.. at the moment that just isnt going to happen scotland just seems to have no stomach for club sport outside of football a the moment.

oooh blimey i sort of assumed he would be back by the beginning of hte season.. its rare injuries overlap seasons when they happen so early.. nasty..

is it not more honororay than actually runnng it whichis more the "executive chairman" (whatever the hell that is!) and the CEO?

put it into context with the timing and placement and the opposition and we see the problem... we have a poor international scene and we dont help ourselves with poor planning.. sort ourselves out, then look at selling international games seperatly for more exposure get more regualr internationals have a euro nations involving england yes england may walk away with it for awhile but until england are involved then the "prestige" will not be there etc.. get rep rugby up there in the consciousness... it gets new people more involved from around the country becuase thy have a team to support.. their country.. its how cricket has grown and rugby union.. though pushing the international scene and letting the club game grow from the knock on..

sadly thats Rchad Owen consigned to the wing though surely .. would have been good to get him a run at fullback when he is back..

he lost his edge with Bradford becuase he was thinking about the England side and making sure he was up to date with all the england players so he took his eye off the bradford ball.. please let it be true

agree.. sacrifice a bit of money for more exposure each time for the world cup and watch the money raised away from the world cup go up due to this extra exposure.. especially if we were to get a past world cup programme that pushes the fact that unlike the other "major" sports we have won this damn world cup more than just once!

when you say "most sports" i take it you mean football, rugby union and cricket.. becuaset here are alot of other world cups that go on and we have no idea they are even taking place.. hockey, ice hockey, basketball has a world champs i belive, water polo, polo ( i would assume) etc etc Football has a huge boost as its a massive tournament.. Rugby Union has only really had this in the last few tournaments.. 1995 onwards really i would suggest becuase it wasstill growing before then but the success in 2003 and going in as favourites didnt half help cricket.. i'm not sure there is massive increase in interest but i think it depends on where it is and how good we are and how long it goes on for (the last one went on far too long) RL needs some good money spent on it before this one.. advertising and marketing as a whole to show people it is on, that we do stand a chance (alhtough slim) and that it is worth getting excited about.. until then there wont be huge swathes of support springing up.

The thing with london is that the whole of london is quins' catchement area which means their junior coaches and their development work is horrifically stretched.. its also the issue with where they play and is always an argument.. do they play where the game junior level is strong? they may not get a ground there etc.. the junior/conference clubs are the feeders into Quins.. its almost quite australian in London in the way that the clubs below quins will strive to be better but they are really feeding into quins and to an extent skolars.. and they accept it with grace too and are rightly proud when juniors go to the quins academy. West london is their base but is not really the environ. thats the whole of london. But as has been pointed out more community coaches around london would be fantastic no matter where they are based.. if they were based in Oxford you would techincally lose all the kids from their "environ", if they were based in the east of london you would lose west and south etc etc so its a case no matter where they go of keeping the links with the amateur clubs that are around that are finding and producing the talent to pass on to the quins academy. They are vital for knowledge and support to the clubs around there but the debate will always rage about where they are based.. (mainly becuase no matter where they go unless they have an imediate impact of getting 11k through the door first 5 matches people will come on here and say it has failed!) they are going great guns with the right attitude.. its about London kids.. and try ot get the results along the way.. and mcdermott is doing agood job with rediculous pressure from ourside of london expecting him to do better than he is etc without the depth of squad and whilst trying to bring through london kids.. this result will do wonders for the spirit of hte players and the squad and will hopefully get some credit for what is going on down here.. (there is often great credit given and then forgotten when the tide turns..)

i disagree i think it could and would be less than 7k if there was nothing whatsoever riding on it an it was no more than a trial match.. even if th other option is a glorified trial match there is still some glory.. and it could take years for the potnt grow (as origin did) but it is somethign to stick to once decided upon..

part of the intensity that the aussies get used to in origin is the crowd and hostitlity etc.. you woudnt get that for england v englad a.. there would be a small and not very passionate crowd.. its a case of trying to find something that is to all intents and purposes a trial but where there is a true rivalry for fans and players... players of hte same tame against each other.. crowds getting involved and passionate etc etc..

if they dont win tody then you do just wonder..

my only change would be the year.. i would put it in 2011 and 4 years or 2012 ad then 2015 and every 4 years.. reason being it would be the middle of the world cup rota and allow the break between the 4 nations.. so you have the four nations every 2 years rather than in a 2 year group then a world cup thn an ashes then 2 4 nations.. which i think would be a bit lobsided.

you have somethign fans can get behind and on a constant basis rather than their favroutie player plays for the team that year and thent he next is in the other side (probables v possibles style) Yorks v Lacs IMO doesnt work that well becuase of cumbria, wales and london and the hope to grow the sport.. i like the town and country idea.. i also like the idea of a heartlands vs expansion.. its the biggest grudge we have at the moment .. heartlands = any player born in a corridor designed by taking the original clubs in 1895 and drawing a line through them with a 3 mile radius around the line or something like that anyway (someone with more time can work out the best way of splitting it, maybe 5 miles or an average line drawn from one end to the other with the clubs furthers north ad south of the line being the boundaries etc... but you get the general gist)