Chris22

With it being an indoor sport, I've always thought moving the wheelchair season to winter would be a good idea.

The 18th man change is an excellent one. I'm one of the few not persuaded by the new six again law. Having a different law for different areas of the pitch seems to complicate matters for no reason. You could argue that awarding a six again near an opponents try line deprives the chance of the attacking team kicking at goal when they may wish to do so. I'd be in favour of getting rid altogether.

I'd rather a player say what he thinks that stick with a corporate line. Or, worse still, say something completely contrary to what he thinks. People are bright enough to know when someone is pushing an event because they are told to as opposed to having a genuine enthusiasm for it. The sport won't improve if stakeholders, including players, aren't willing to challenge bad ideas. An obvious example being Rhodri Jones' assertion earlier that Elland Road is one of the premier stadiums in the north of England.

Magic Weekend tends to split opinions. I see many saw we should scrap it because crowds aren't interested. The figures show that crowds have grown at Magic Weekend year on year since 2019. By comparison, crowds have fallen year on year for the Grand Final since 2018 (with the exception of 2022, which saw an uplift following Catalans appearance in 2021 but was still only 60,000 for a Saints v Leeds final). We all know which way Challenge Cup Final crowds are heading. We have had disappointing international crowds for the last two years. Every other major event that our sport has held in England has seen a drop off in crowds in the last few years, yet Magic Weekend is the one we talk of scrapping? The only one that has shown any growth, however modest? That doesn't make sense to me. Newcastle worked perfectly for Magic. But it can get stale. I'd have liked to have seen something like 3 years at Newcastle and then a year at another venue and then repeat the cycle. Elland Road isn't the answer though. The reasons are well rehearsed on this thread. Poor legroom, out of the city centre, nothing to do around the stadium, being in the same city as an existing Super League club. Everything that fans report to enjoy about the weekend is taken away by this decision. We have history for this. Moving the Northern Rail Cup Final from Blackpool to Halifax. Or the Summer Bash from Blackpool to Headingley and then York. They inevitably flopped and were scrapped. And we all know that's what will happen here. With IMG wanting the event scrapped and the clubs not, you almost wonder if there is an element of managed decline. In 2018, Leeds played Castleford at Elland Road and attracted a crowd of 23,000. Now, we are playing six matches at the same venue at one weekend. This strikes me as a huge scaling back of our ambitions for the sport. Just six years ago, we aimed for one match at this stadium and drawing a huge crowd and now we need every club to pull together to do the same? If we are to do Magic Weekend (and I am in favour of the concept), we should do it properly. If we are going to do it half-arsed (as we are clearly doing), we might as well not do it at all.

There was talk of Magic Weekend getting scrapped for 2024. I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I wonder whether the idea is to make the event so unappealing so it becomes easy to scrap it in 2025.

Derek Beaumont has put on Facebook that it's Thursday at 9.30am.

You learn something new!

Joe Vagana always used to get an extra "n" in his name too (pronunciation rather than spelling though).

The idea that regular matches against France improves competitiveness doesn't seem realistic to me unless there are more people plating the sport in France. Whilst I have major concerns about the competitive nature of France, it's better than nothing and we should probably go for it.

We would have to have a very loose definition of Lancashire as very few top players were born in Lancashire. Personally, it wouldn't appeal to me in the same way that an England game would.

Whilst Brentford looks a nice enough stadium, is there anything at all to indicate any interest in the club wanting to host a rugby league match, mid-Premier League season?

A mixed bag in terms of attendances for this series, in my view. What we have seen is that matches against the likes of Tonga do not have the same appeal to heartlands crowds as matches against New Zealand and Australia, or World Cup matches. But, it was largely in keeping with other non-RLWC matches against Tier 2 nations. With us expected to face Samoa, it will be interesting to see what lessons are learned. This series seems to be at least in the pipeline far earlier than the Tonga series this year. Leeds tends to draw strong international crowds, probably the strongest of the heartlands, so I think a first test at Headingley would be a good starting point. Next year, I'd like to see a test at a non-heartland venue. Coventry attracted a 21,000 crowd for England v Scotland in 2016 and a relatively strong crowd at the World Cup last year, so that would be one option. I think there's reason to think a smaller London venue would do equally as well (if not better) than Saints or Huddersfield this year, so I wouldn't be averse to London hosting the non-heartland test. Finding a suitable, available and willing venue may prove tricky though. As for the third test, I'd stay out of West Yorkshire given that Leeds is already hosting. Maybe Hull?

At Saints, I would expect Noah Stephens to make his debut at some point this year. He seems to be quite a highly rated prop. Probably won't be a breakthrough year for him but one to watch in years to come.

English rugby league fans often seem embarrassed by success. We took on a team full of NRL and Super League players and, yes, Tonga didn't play well today but we did what we needed to do. We should be proud of having one of the best international teams. It's one reason that I think a more novice crowd for these matches would be more appreciative of success, especially in two close matches like the ones we have seen.

Good to see Wane as classless as ever.

I don't think it is hindsight to say that playing matches in both Huddersfield and Leeds was unwise, especially within 7 days of each other. I can't say I'm surprised by attendances between 11,000 and 13,000. Leeds tends to get stronger international crowds, so probably 15,000 next week. If we play Samoa next year, I think we could be confident of getting crowds at least equal to these in places such as London or Coventry. And we would have the benefit of playing in front of a different crowd. I know it's not quite as simple as sticking a pin in a map and saying let's play there but hopefully more time to plan this time and we can show growth in 2024, against an opponent of comparable repute.

So Newcastle, who barely even exist, are better set for Super League than London. Wakefield get the chance at more points by winning the Championship and 1895 Cup, by comparison to Castleford and Leigh. London's relegation is all but confirmed before the season starts. This is why sport should be played on a field, not a spreadsheet.

Ambition is welcome but without realism it can never be achieved. We would all love these matches played all over the UK, more frequently before packed stadiums. And we could cast the net wider. But to do that we need money. To hire stadiums, to negotiate bigger sponsorship deals. We also need cooperation from the NRL, which is often limited. We had a prime BBC1 slot on Sunday and viewing figures weren't great. We do need ambition, yes, but running before we can walk does not just hold the sport back, it contracts it.

There is in my view a huge difference between a World Cup and a test series. It's anecdotal, but at England v France last year, I was sat near people who were rugby union fans. At St Helens, I heard a lot of Welsh accents. At the final, I was near a family who travelled from Bournemouth. I think the pull of a World Cup is far wider than simply a 3 match series against a small Pacific Island, especially to new audiences.

I agree to an extent with the first sentence. I've said before it's not as simple as we think getting a venue in London mid Premier League season and costs more. And we have less disposable cash after the World Cup lost money last year. But I would be disappointed if we don't play a test against Samoa in London next year.

Saying we would have got 20K at Wigan when there is nothing to suggest that we would have is a fine example of this. I think we suffer from delusions about quite how popular our sport is. That's why the World Cup last year was a failure. We thought we could price it as a premium event when there was no demand for it. We were ambitious as you suggest we should be. What happened? We made a financial loss and can count ourselves lucky that Government funding prevented a real disaster.

I'll keep repeating it, there is no history in this country of an England match drawing 20K consistently for non World Cup matches against Tier 2 nations. I understand people may find that disappointing but I do not understand why people are surprised. We need these events to appeal to people who may not conventionally attend. Tonga is a nation few have heard of outside of rugby circles. They are a new force in the international game and I do think it will take time to build that awareness. If the Samoa series happens next year, we should then be aiming for better than this. We have effectively had to start again due to Australian intransigence and no end of season international rugby in the UK from the end of 2018 to the end of 2022.

Very enjoyable test match today. It is such a huge benefit to the international game that it is no longer just three nations who can be competitive at the top level. With a match under their belts, a Tonga win next week would not be a surprise at all. Lewis was the stand out for me, a brilliant debut. Loved his interview at the end, good on him for being willing to show how much it meant. I didn't particularly like Shaun Wane's faux-perfectionism when discussing Lewis' performance, which I thought showed poor man management. Welsby and McMeeken were also very good. That game could have gone either way and sets us up for another couple of decent tests. The best test series build as they go through and today laid a very solid foundation.

Thought I'd put this in here rather than the match thread. If I was a new fan today, I'd have been distinctly unimpressed. Firstly, several turnstiles were not scanning barcodes on tickets causing congestion and a kick off delay. The RFL also sold seats that did not exist, not realising that the rows towards the back of the stand were of differing lengths. Thankfully, not an issue as it didn't sell out. Several of the stadium bars were closed. Those that were open ran out of soft drinks and snacks by 30 minutes and water by half time. I don't know if its Saints to blame or the RFL. Though I must say I've never seen such issues with kiosks at a Saints match in the 10+ years the stadium has now been open. We need to be far better than this.

If you buy online now, you have to collect at the ticket office tomorrow I think.