Scrum

[TheObserver]

There is no law of "uncontested scrums" in RL, it is simply how tactics have developed - primarily driven by the conservation of energy as the feed has been allowed to move back to the second row.

There may be no law against pushing, but as RL1908 said, referees discourage it. In the Four Nations last year, referees were telling forwards not to push in the scrum.

Emasculation of the scrum continues in the NRL. In last nights R25 clash between Souths and Parramatta, Souths had the scrum feed, using lock Jamie Clark at hooker, with Isaac Luke clearing the ball from lock. Parramatta fullback Jarryd Hayne packed in at lock in that defensive scrum. In the Broncos/Warriors game, on a number of occasions, Warriors dummy-half Aaron Heremaia packed in at the back, lock Simon Mannering packed at hooker. Sometimes fullback Lance Hohaia packed in at lock in defence. Broncos centre Alex Glenn packed in at lock several times. In last week's R24 Manly/Warriors clash, Hohaia packed in at lock several times. There was at least one scrum reset (at 62nd minute). The Bulldogs/Roosters game saw Jared Warea-Hargreaves pack at hooker, with fullback Anthony Minichiello packing at lock in at least two scrums. Roosters centre Shaun Kenny-Dowell and Bulldogs fullback Luke Patten packed in as locks at another.

I wouldn't mind the tactic of the dummy-half packing at the back, if he were there because the pack had to push.

Forcing the feed back in the middle of the scrum would just mean teams started pushing again - and still the feeding team would win the ball almost every time as they would cancel each other out, just at a greater energy cost.

Perhaps. However there might still need to be a dramatic change in the game's approach towards the scrum - if referees gave more differential penalties at the scrum, it might encourage teams to push properly.

This scenario might lead to a change in forwards' skill sets towards pushing and heaving, and away from smashing the ball up and smashing the ball carrier.

Not necessarily, in Southern Hemisphere RU, players still put big hits on in defence. There's just more of a mix.

[TheObserver]

An interesting point about scrums that was made elsewhere:

If you do away with competitive scrums then you do away with scrum specialists which in turn just means you get at least 4 or 6 more flanker/centre types out on the pitch instead of props and hookers. Having men on the pitch who need to be heavy with extreme isometric strength provides opportunities for mismatches out in open play whereas if you choose to eschew good scrummaging props for mobility then you will get screwed in the competitive scrum. It is something that you just don't see any more in RL as most of the forwards are indistinguishable from most of the backs.

Anyway, can't contested scums lead to broken necks, spinal injuries & other injuries?

There is a risk, mainly from the hit/engage between front rows, and a return to competitive scrums could minimise that risk by not using a hit to bring front rows together. However, there is significant risk of serious injury (including to neck and spine) in regular collisions and tackles in general play.

[dallymessenger]

i switched on a French Top 14 game last night

first thing i saw was a contested scrum

lots of heaving, the ball went with the feed

the other team then screwed the scrum more than 90 degrees

the ref then blew a penalty

at which point i remember why i hated contested scrums and changed the channel

[bobrock]

So you watch a lot of rugby union even if you hate it. Everybody here believes to know Union even better than League, but they clearly don't. You didn't even know that the scrum setting is shaped in 4 movements.

[tommyvoll]

I will watch a lot of Union, as well as League, and I don't hate it, but this myth that from the terraces/stands you can see what's going on in scrum is nonsense. I suspect that this claim that somehow it makes you intellectually superior because you are a purist with an appreciation of the finer points is simply petty snobbery.

In particular, I love watching the All Blacks and the French with their superb handling skills and invention, but get frustrated not by a scrum competition but by the endless resetting of the scrums because cheating is endemic. Mind you, it was Austin Healey who said, in the Daily Telegraph, "Rugby Union is about who cheats best."

[ckn]

Enough with the union stuff. This is not the forum for discussing how fat lads keep warm in the winter.

[HappyDave]

Enough with the union stuff. This is not the forum for discussing how fat lads keep warm in the winter.

Yep, back to discussing RL scrums.

I don't have a problem with uncontested scrums but I think there is probably a better way to reset play even if it was just resetting their defensive line & 'tap & run' rather than a scrum.

Edited August 28, 2010 by HappyDave

[Lobbygobbler]

I always think of it as more like a throw in in soccer. You made a mistake, don't expect to get the ball back at the restart

A touchfinder which bounces before finding touch (and which is not a 40/20) is not a mistake, whereas a knock-on is. I would like to see turnovers for knock-ons and other mistakes, and contested scrums for touchfinders/bouncing in touch. This would considerably reduce the number of scrums and probably remove scrum speciality