Hull FC and Hull KR to merge...

[The Parksider]

The generational factor is a thin thread.

 

Most of the youngsters I chat to at games are as "dyed in the wool" as the old codgers like me.

 

So any thoughts of "time will heal" are well off the mark.

 

Whatever people may want to say about loyalties, 20 years ago exactly only 4,462 people in Hull were watching professional RL.

 

There were more paying fans in Halifax that year.

 

So it's no good bulling up the massive loyal support and equally massive talented playing pool if we want a serious debate here.

[jacksy]

Try looking at the Hull Junior ARL on their Pitchero website..........

 

I can see 9 teams at under 15 and no under 14's. Looks like they have had to double up to get a league

 

I can see only 8 clubs in the under 12's

 

Hundreds of schoolkids playing a bit of tag rugby does not constitute a "huge talent pool" that's the RFL's public relations machine in overdrive.

 

I'm at a loss to believe the clubs scouting and coaching teams are useless, more like the numbers are just not there.

 

Which is why you can pick an overseas team and two subs out of the two senior first teams, but only scrape a seven a side team of Hull born locals.

 

Sad fact seems to be that Hull has a small junior set up that delivers one decent professional level local player a year??? 

Parksider a few years ago there was no 11's 13's or 15's in the Hull Youth league. Furthermore, the pitchero site only shows league tables. In Hull we do not have league tables for the teams below 12's..these are the primary teams and consist of 11's,10's,9's, 8's, 7's, 6's and cub (3yrs olds)

[jacksy]

Whatever people may want to say about loyalties, 20 years ago exactly only 4,462 people in Hull were watching professional RL.

 

There were more paying fans in Halifax that year.

 

So it's no good bulling up the massive loyal support and equally massive talented playing pool if we want a serious debate here.

He is not bulling up the loyalty or feelings the people within the city have towards FC or KR. Whether they are dyed in the wool or just fair whether bandwagon jumpers..they will not support a merged team mate. 

[scotchy]

You say they won't support a merged team. For the most part they didn't support any team. That loyalty you speak of didn't exist with them at all. It was created and as such can be changed or recreated.

[jacksy]

You say they won't support a merged team. For the most part they didn't support any team. That loyalty you speak of didn't exist with them at all. It was created and as such can be changed or recreated.

Like it or lump it they will not support a merged team. Young and old, man or boy they all say the same thing.  

[DeadShotKeen]

You can go on all you like!

I'm from Hull and know what the majority of fans think about a future merger of the senior clubs and it isn't pretty.

 

Both Hull FC and Rovers fans would stay away in droves and I can guarantee the sum gate would be smaller than either club gets at present.

 

Sorry but you country folk have no idea about the rivalry here in the big city

 

Would I be right in saying that you are of a certain age? I'm thinking 40+ - is that fair?

 

I'm 41 so grew up in Hull during the glory days of the early 80s. I know the passion you speak of but I think personally it is applicable to the older generations who grew up in a markedly different era to the one we're in now. I would say that my pro-merger view is slightly against the views of most of my generation but I would also say that the issue hasn't really been seriously or sensibly debated in public.

 

But anyway, my main question to you is this (assuming that my guess about your age is accurate) - do you think that you speak for future generations?

[DeadShotKeen]

The generational factor is a thin thread.

 

Most of the youngsters I chat to at games are as "dyed in the wool" as the old codgers like me.

 

So any thoughts of "time will heal" are well off the mark.

 

Fair enough - I see I jumped the gun there and you've already answered this.

 

I find it hard to believe that Hull kids will continue to support 2 middle-of-the-pack sides in the same numbers as we've seen in recent times going forward but I guess we may have to wait and see.

 

Meanwhile, scotchy has proved that Wests and St George-Illawarra continue to attract young fans through their turnstiles in increasing number. There is certainly danger in ignoring this fact.

[DeadShotKeen]

He is not bulling up the loyalty or feelings the people within the city have towards FC or KR. Whether they are dyed in the wool or just fair whether bandwagon jumpers..they will not support a merged team mate. 

 

This kind of speaking on behalf of everyone is just plain insulting, however.

[DeadShotKeen]

Like it or lump it they will not support a merged team. Young and old, man or boy they all say the same thing.  

 

You know the entire population of Hull and surrounding area?

 

Impressive stuff.

[zorquif]

Fair enough - I see I jumped the gun there and you've already answered this.

 

I find it hard to believe that Hull kids will continue to support 2 middle-of-the-pack sides in the same numbers as we've seen in recent times going forward but I guess we may have to wait and see.

 

Meanwhile, scotchy has proved that Wests and St George-Illawarra continue to attract young fans through their turnstiles in increasing number. There is certainly danger in ignoring this fact.

 

How do you know the demographic of the fans at those clubs?

[DeadShotKeen]

How do you know the demographic of the fans at those clubs?

 

I don't but I do know that the sides are well supported.

 

What do you think? Do you think the Tigers and Dragons struggle to attract young fans?

[DeadShotKeen]

In other words, I think it is a fair assumption on the basis of scotchy’s figures. And certainly a fairer assumption than purporting to speak on behalf of an entire city.

[jacksy]

You know the entire population of Hull and surrounding area?

 

Impressive stuff.

Thank you

[zorquif]

 

I don't but I do know that the sides are well supported.

 

What do you think? Do you think the Tigers and Dragons struggle to attract young fans?

 

 

In other words, I think it is a fair assumption on the basis of scotchy’s figures. And certainly a fairer assumption than purporting to speak on behalf of an entire city.

 

I don't know. And I don't claim to know. I don't think any one has spoken for an entire city, rather for the folk that attend Hull FC and Hull KR (about, what 18k?). You are assuming something about (I haven't gone back to check, but I think this is close) 30k people.

 

Why is it more reasonable to assume something about 30k people (that they are 'young') than 20k (that they will be turned off by a merged club)?

[scotchy]

In full fear of getting involved in another pointless semantic argument on this thread but DSK didn't say that the fans of those two clubs were young. He didn't say those 30k people were young. Simply that those clubs attract young people.

It isn't reasonable at all to think that of those 30k none are young. It would frankly be a bit head mental to postulate that those 2 clubs do not attract young fans.

It is certainly more reasonable to assume that some of the 30k+ attending george or st George matches are young than it is to assume that no hull fans would support a merged side.

[DeadShotKeen]

Because 1 can realistically be supported or disproved and the other cannot.

 

The population of Hull is not a single entity with 1 shared voice. Using the term “they” to speak on their behalf is both vulgar and offensive.

[zorquif]

Well, I think they could both be. One requires an exit poll at Hull FC and KRs next big games. The other requires data being collected on all the attendees of Wests and StGI. I'd actually say the former is easier, but hey ho. 

 

It is neither vulgar nor offensive. 'They' could be used in this case to mean a) not the population of Hull, but the population interested in RL (apparently 20k or so) and the majority of those.

[scotchy]

Well, I think they could both be. One requires an exit poll at Hull FC and KRs next big games. The other requires data being collected on all the attendees of Wests and StGI. I'd actually say the former is easier, but hey ho.

It is neither vulgar nor offensive. 'They' could be used in this case to mean a) not the population of Hull, but the population interested in RL (apparently 20k or so) and the majority of those.

you think it more sensible to assume the thoughts of 20k fans in hull are as one, than that of a group of 30k rl fans in Sydney. Some are young?

[The Parksider]

Parksider a few years ago there was no 11's 13's or 15's in the Hull Youth league. Furthermore, the pitchero site only shows league tables. In Hull we do not have league tables for the teams below 12's..these are the primary teams and consist of 11's,10's,9's, 8's, 7's, 6's and cub (3yrs olds)

 

Thanks for your reply. When didn't they have 11's to 15's??

 

I appreciate there's maybe a lot of young kids teams. Only the players who carry on to 15 will get to the academy though?

 

I still get the impression Hull doesn't get enough 15 YO's knocking on the door of the academies such that there's some quality in there? 

[zorquif]

 

In full fear of getting involved in another pointless semantic argument on this thread but DSK didn't say that the fans of those two clubs were young. He didn't say those 30k people were young. Simply that those clubs attract young people.

It isn't reasonable at all to think that of those 30k none are young. It would frankly be a bit head mental to postulate that those 2 clubs do not attract young fans.

It is certainly more reasonable to assume that some of the 30k+ attending george or st George matches are young than it is to assume that no hull fans would support a merged side.

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear; this obviously confused you. I meant the 'crowd' en masse was young (e.g. the average age is low).

 

you think it more sensible to assume the thoughts of 20k fans in hull are as one, than that of a group of 30k rl fans in Sydney. Some are young?

 

I think this deals in absolutes. This I don't like. Some of the Sydney guys will no doubt be young, some Hullites will no doubt be interested in a merged team. However, the demographic of the Sydney teams may be aging overall (i.e. fewer young fans being attracted), and the vast majority of Hullites might be against mergers. 

[The Parksider]

Well, I think they could both be. One requires an exit poll at Hull FC and KRs next big games. 

 

It is neither vulgar nor offensive. 

 

The Exit poll would be irrelevant, the answer to a theorectical question asked of existing fans in which the answer they give would be unreliable.

 

The question is would the current fans watch a merged side eventually once getting over the shock and disappointment of that merger.

 

I'd guess if the merged club were rubbish not many, if the merged club won cups, most.

 

I'd guess all new fans would be the same. Win cups and there will be plenty getting interested, be serial losers and not many will be bothered. 

 

Agree - vulgar/offensive OTT.

[zorquif]

What am I doing? 

[zorquif]

The Exit poll would be irrelevant, the answer to a theorectical question asked of existing fans in which the answer they give would be unreliable.

 

The question is would the current fans watch a merged side eventually once getting over the shock and disappointment of that merger.

 

I'd guess if the merged club were rubbish not many, if the merged club won cups, most.

 

I'd guess all new fans would be the same. Win cups and there will be plenty getting interested, be serial losers and not many will be bothered. 

 

Agree - vulgar/offensive OTT.

 

I see what you are saying re an exit poll. It was just a quick suggestion. With all due respect, I am not sure I agree with your question though. It could be that the time it took to get over the 'shock and disappointment' of the merger would result in the club going down the pan.

[scotchy]

With regards to the demographics of St George-illawara and wests tigers there are many other factors including an aging population to take in to account. If your population as a whole is going up, you could only be attracting younger fans and still see your average age go up. However that doesn't really matter because nobody has made such a claim. Nobody has claimed that those clubs average fan age is going down. Simply that those clubs are attracting young fans.

Clearly the more reasonable of those statements is that those clubs are attracting young fans. It would be crazy if they weren't.

[The Parksider]

I find it hard to believe that Hull kids will continue to support 2 middle-of-the-pack sides in the same numbers as we've seen in recent times going forward but I guess we may have to wait and see.

 

Meanwhile, scotchy has proved that Wests and St George-Illawarra continue to attract young fans through their turnstiles in increasing number. There is certainly danger in ignoring this fact.

 

The Hull academies have not produced and the merged club would not get any more to spend on players than Wakefield or Salford.

 

Once again two middle of the pack sides combined = one middle of the pack side doesn't it?

 

Do Hull & HKR fans prefer to watch their own middle of the pack teams more than a merged middle of the pack team.

 

To make a merger work it has to create a successful club on the pitch....

 

So forget what the fans think, how does a merger create a trophy winning Hull club?????