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saintspete83

Promotion..... You decide

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Just now, Smudger06 said:

It wasn't the very 1st time a non English team made the final, Catalans were runners up at Wembley in 2007 vs St Helens, 84,000 were there on that occasion. 

Yes that is correct , but that was the 1st at the new Wembley , and the last one I attended , so the ' new ' factor came into play on that one 

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24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We are making it up as we go along. Fair enough if they believe that is the way to deal with this, reactive rather than pro-active, my view is that that is very rarely the best approach.

I strongly disagree with scotchy's point that we have a strategy and have communicated it. We quite simply haven't.

I concur , just crossing their fingers and hoping 

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On 4/2/2019 at 6:22 PM, Dave T said:

Catalans are overseas from the UK. TWP are favourites for promotion this year. If Ottawa are as successful as TWP then in five years they could be in, and Toulouse are building nicely, although there are some questions around their infrastructure. 

At some stage, there is a risk of SL clubs saying no to a new club, and we go backwards - it makes sense to have a plan now.

All the available evidence suggests that there will be a drop off if TWP made the Grand Final. The competing clubs probably make up around 30-50k of the crowd. TWP may attract 2k instead of 15-25k. That is a big gap to fill and I'm not sure the neutrals will fill the seats, as they didn't at the Challenge Cup, and haven't at the comparable Rugby Union events (a sport that fills seats much better than we do!).

My point is that I am ok with crowd fluctuations, they should be baked into any plans (that isn't the same as accepting mediocrity) - and they can be afforded because of the benefits from moving strongly into international territories.

But I don't think the RFL or SLE have ever had a French sponsor so far, and the TV deal doesn't appear to bring in great value. That needs to change, and Canada needs to be tapped into from a commercial point of view too. 

The TV Deal regarding Catalans is that BeIN Sports produces and shows Stade Gilbert Brutus SL Games live in France, Catalans or SL don't get paid, BeIN then gives Sky those matches for the UK market in exchange for picking and choosing Sky produced SL matches for broadcast in France. 

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8 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

The TV Deal regarding Catalans is that BeIN Sports produces and shows Stade Gilbert Brutus SL Games live in France, Catalans or SL don't get paid, BeIN then gives Sky those matches for the UK market in exchange for picking and choosing Sky produced SL matches for broadcast in France. 

Which gets the question , would having 2 French SL clubs produce a paying ( equivalent of 2 SL clubs central funding ) TV deal from BeIN or somebody else ?

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BeIN could get onboard in my view, if Toulouse get promoted to SL alongside Catalans they could up their production to 1 saturday Game a week , when Toulouse play home Catalans play away and vise versa. Could even start paying Catalans and Toulouse about 3 million euros each per season on top of production costs. Same thing could be done in Canada on a Toronto / Ottawa basis as BeIN also operate a Sports channel in Canada. SL and the RFL need to be bending BeIN' s ear big time. 

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1 minute ago, Smudger06 said:

BeIN could get onboard in my view, if Toulouse get promoted to SL alongside Catalans they could up their production to 1 saturday Game a week , when Toulouse play home Catalans play away and vise versa. Could even start paying Catalans and Toulouse about 3 million euros each per season on top of production costs. Same thing could be done in Canada on a Toronto / Ottawa basis as BeIN also operate a Sports channel in Canada. SL and the RFL need to be bending BeIN' s ear big time. 

Which is where I see SL going , but that will require a ' closed shop ' , which might work well for SL , could well result in the degradation of the Championship as we saw last time 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Which is where I see SL going , but that will require a ' closed shop ' , which might work well for SL , could well result in the degradation of the Championship as we saw last time 

Fully agree, or at least offer 2 or 4 overseas teams protection from relegation whilst 10 English teams fight it out. Would be unfair that though because an overseas team not in playoff contention could throw games against certain teams to control who is relegated. 

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53 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

It wasn't the very 1st time a non English team made the final, Catalans were runners up at Wembley in 2007 vs St Helens, 84,000 were there on that occasion. 

Quite correct, apologies, but as highlighted, there was a unique reason for that 84k.

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10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Making it up as we go along is our strategy. Any other strategy would require us to divert time and money and resource to it. Existing clubs wont do that. This is what we are left with. It isn't accidental. It's a deliberate effort from the game as a whole

No, making it up as you go along is what you do in the absence of a strategy.

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8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You can make a deliberate choice to be reactive. That is a strategy and a plan. We agree it isn't a great one but it is the one they have chosen and we cant pretend this isn't a deliberate choice. We haven't got here by accident we chose this situation. 

Agreed, but that is an approach rather than a strategy, and that is an important distinction. We have chosen that we will not bother with a plan/strategy, and just take it as it comes. 

A strategy is 'a plan of action designed to achieve a long-term goal' - there is none. 

A strategy here would be addressing application criteria, introduction to the RFL/SLE structure, funding, player development, commercial approach etc.  

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Super League is basically a brand. What we need to understand is that although SL Clubs decided to opt to but their Chairmen on the board, nothing's changed with regard to them having 1 Ordinary Share each for a total of 12 ordinary shares whilst the RFL holds the all important special preference rights share....Which ultimately if you look into it is a veto (final say) on number of clubs, how and who gets relegated, how and who gets promoted, and most importantly any and all changes to the articles (lawful operating rules) of SLE Ltd can only be implemented with the RFLs approval. 

I think the Super League 2 Tier model is the way forward.....BUT rather than the 2 x 10 most known system......It should be a 1 x 10 & 1 x 16 model. 

SL Premiership of 10 Clubs 

SL Championship of 16 Clubs

10th place Prem Relegated

Winner of MPG (Championship Promotion Final) earns promotion. 

BeIN or other to buy into a two tier payment system on a 12 year deal whereby 4 overseas clubs within the 26 receive £4m each a season for Prem & £1.5m each a season for Champ...

Sky or other buy into a two tier payment system on a 12 year deal whereby 22 English clubs within the 26 receive £2.5m each a season for Prem & £500k each a season for Champ.... 

Sky have Thursday & Friday SL Games top 2 choices of English clubs home games per Round, BeIN have 2 Saturday Games, 1 from Canada and 1 from France....Prem or Champ depending on who is where! 

Then 2 x Our League Games on Sunday from Championship......

Ottawa for the extra space then 1 other from League 1 (Newcastle, Doncaster, Coventry) 

Scope for getting rid of 1 to 3 existing Championship Clubs and bringing in 1 to 3 new Clubs or League 1 Clubs.......

Just some quick thoughts.....may have a rethink later........

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30 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Super League is basically a brand. What we need to understand is that although SL Clubs decided to opt to but their Chairmen on the board, nothing's changed with regard to them having 1 Ordinary Share each for a total of 12 ordinary shares whilst the RFL holds the all important special preference rights share....Which ultimately if you look into it is a veto (final say) on number of clubs, how and who gets relegated, how and who gets promoted, and most importantly any and all changes to the articles (lawful operating rules) of SLE Ltd can only be implemented with the RFLs approval. 

I think the Super League 2 Tier model is the way forward.....BUT rather than the 2 x 10 most known system......It should be a 1 x 10 & 1 x 16 model. 

SL Premiership of 10 Clubs 

SL Championship of 16 Clubs

10th place Prem Relegated

Winner of MPG (Championship Promotion Final) earns promotion. 

BeIN or other to buy into a two tier payment system on a 12 year deal whereby 4 overseas clubs within the 26 receive £4m each a season for Prem & £1.5m each a season for Champ...

Sky or other buy into a two tier payment system on a 12 year deal whereby 22 English clubs within the 26 receive £2.5m each a season for Prem & £500k each a season for Champ.... 

Sky have Thursday & Friday SL Games top 2 choices of English clubs home games per Round, BeIN have 2 Saturday Games, 1 from Canada and 1 from France....Prem or Champ depending on who is where! 

Then 2 x Our League Games on Sunday from Championship......

Ottawa for the extra space then 1 other from League 1 (Newcastle, Doncaster, Coventry) 

Scope for getting rid of 1 to 3 existing Championship Clubs and bringing in 1 to 3 new Clubs or League 1 Clubs.......

Just some quick thoughts.....may have a rethink later........

You are assuming that broadcasting companies will pay for non top tier sports ? , They won't 

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12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Which gets the question , would having 2 French SL clubs produce a paying ( equivalent of 2 SL clubs central funding ) TV deal from BeIN or somebody else ?

For BeIn, RL is a complementary  product (in an otherwise very soccer oriented schedule). With Toulouse, they will end up with a better complementary product, but that's it. Not something that will drive subscriptions in any meaningfull way.

 

So no... For any decent TV deal, it will recquire a channel willing to bet some money in order to (re)built RL as a desirable product in the country. It would also recquire BeIN (or someone else), the RFL and the FFRXIII to sit down and to plan fot the next decades of french RL. Something very RL...

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