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4 hours ago, Pie tries said:

I totally disagree that this is of 'no value'...all acts, no matter how small increase the consciousness of our sport.

I have the guys email address - I shall haunt him going forward...

What is the alternative?

I salute you for pricking the mans conscience. What i meant was that a personal response to you (by email) hardly makes up for the major damage done (hiding the World  cup from their entire readership) by omitting the competition from a preview of the years sporting events. I'm on your side mate. My attack was on the chap that sent you the email. Haunt away.

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You know what, I am not sure the sport could do much more than what it has done so far on the World Cup. The draw was made at Buckingham Palace by the Duke of Sussex among others and the venues a

Just to complete the story, this week's sports section of The Sunday Times begins with a letter from someone in York, criticising the RLWC omission last week, and, unusually, there is a brief but uneq

Both can be true.  The reality is that there aren't many RL journalists out there these days, particuarly at the nationals.  The journalists that are out there are pressured to deliver more

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20 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

The reality is though the newspapers still set the News agenda for most days. Most morning Radio Breakfast shows and morning TV shows base their segments on what the main stories in those days newspapers are.. This includes their sports segments. It`s easy because it`s all written and researched for them and they know that a lot of people will still read the paper later that day and pick up on the story. It`s topical for at least that day.

Just quoting Newspaper circulation figures only tells a fraction of the story.

So if there is a big article on the RLWC they are much more likely to broach it on their programmes.

Not to mention every time I turn on my computer and the first page is covered in articles lifted from Newspapers. Sports and otherwise. Which when people sit down at their desk at work or otherwise, and turn on their computer and is the first thing they see.

 

While i agree with you in that what you say is true i am not sure that your interpretation of its importance is right. 

24 hour news channels are often on at people's work etc it is rare someone sits at home to "consume" it. The same is said of breakfast tv, you may watch a snippet while having your breakfast but people watching avidly for hours on end is rare. Newspaper headline grabs are just that "headline grabs" so its front page.. or on sports shows back page. They dont go into much detail. 

Newspapers themselves are the preserve of less and less people. I used to read the metro on my way into work in London mainly because i could skim read all of it in the 30 minute journey from home tube station to work tube station, picking and choosing articles but looking at all the headlines. I would then get to work and put on my chosen news outlets (plural) websites to get to know what was going on before really getting to work (as my work depended on this sort of thing).

But that was 20 years ago now (frighteningly).. I havent read a paper in years i consume it all through umpteen news outlet apps, specific interest apps and the internet. My RL news I get from many sources (bbc for quick access while also getting my football headlines etc then deeper dives into our league, nrl etc).. outside of a very small amount of football i would need to go searching too, bbc coverage of Sheffield Wednesday means I need to check their site for news. What about athletics, well the BBC isnt great for that either, or skiing (2 things i also find interesting to look at) what if you were into any of the minor sports in this country and lets be fair there are a lot, and growing... 

People are so used to searching for their information and they are used to not everything being covered so will then search to get more. They also dont tend to do the "cut out and keep" that used to be done so they will google every so often what is on in 2021 etc and that then comes up with a wikipedia page (amongst others) which has the RL world cup on it.. and as much as wiki is known to be wrong about some stuff and you need to check sources when using it professionally etc for something like this or quick checks of who people are or what shows they have been in etc it is very quick access to data which can then be fact checked, and is commonly used as such

The impact of a paper is getting less and less and, though what you say is true, this impact on the general population is less as they search for stories and search for information that they find interesting or useful. 

RL needs to be at the forefront of pushing their story into these areas, facebook, twitter, snapchat etc are where you will catch younger audiences attention (whichever it is now, i am way out of touch). The people like me that read the metro on the tube in their 20s are now on their phones on trains, busses and tubes... I would be more than happy for the RL to not worry about print journalism too much as long as they were producing information through other sources, including/especially their own  site (and then print journos will pick this up as easy material.. we just dont need to pander to them).. i do worry they are not doing this properly though. 

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4 hours ago, RP London said:

While i agree with you in that what you say is true i am not sure that your interpretation of its importance is right. 

24 hour news channels are often on at people's work etc it is rare someone sits at home to "consume" it. The same is said of breakfast tv, you may watch a snippet while having your breakfast but people watching avidly for hours on end is rare. Newspaper headline grabs are just that "headline grabs" so its front page.. or on sports shows back page. They dont go into much detail. 

Newspapers themselves are the preserve of less and less people. I used to read the metro on my way into work in London mainly because i could skim read all of it in the 30 minute journey from home tube station to work tube station, picking and choosing articles but looking at all the headlines. I would then get to work and put on my chosen news outlets (plural) websites to get to know what was going on before really getting to work (as my work depended on this sort of thing).

But that was 20 years ago now (frighteningly).. I havent read a paper in years i consume it all through umpteen news outlet apps, specific interest apps and the internet. My RL news I get from many sources (bbc for quick access while also getting my football headlines etc then deeper dives into our league, nrl etc).. outside of a very small amount of football i would need to go searching too, bbc coverage of Sheffield Wednesday means I need to check their site for news. What about athletics, well the BBC isnt great for that either, or skiing (2 things i also find interesting to look at) what if you were into any of the minor sports in this country and lets be fair there are a lot, and growing... 

People are so used to searching for their information and they are used to not everything being covered so will then search to get more. They also dont tend to do the "cut out and keep" that used to be done so they will google every so often what is on in 2021 etc and that then comes up with a wikipedia page (amongst others) which has the RL world cup on it.. and as much as wiki is known to be wrong about some stuff and you need to check sources when using it professionally etc for something like this or quick checks of who people are or what shows they have been in etc it is very quick access to data which can then be fact checked, and is commonly used as such

The impact of a paper is getting less and less and, though what you say is true, this impact on the general population is less as they search for stories and search for information that they find interesting or useful. 

RL needs to be at the forefront of pushing their story into these areas, facebook, twitter, snapchat etc are where you will catch younger audiences attention (whichever it is now, i am way out of touch). The people like me that read the metro on the tube in their 20s are now on their phones on trains, busses and tubes... I would be more than happy for the RL to not worry about print journalism too much as long as they were producing information through other sources, including/especially their own  site (and then print journos will pick this up as easy material.. we just dont need to pander to them).. i do worry they are not doing this properly though. 

I suppose we have both gotten a little removed from the original point of this thread, i.e. the failure of the Sunday Times to mention the RLWC in its` list of significant sporting events in 2021. Consequently missing an opportunity to capitalise on the good promotional work being done elsewhere, and amongst what I would gather is a non-traditional League audience. If the Times is any thing like the broadsheets over here `hardcopy` readership is `X` and the on-line readership is `several times X`. That is important to remember. I still think it is essential though to get into those sort of publications because if you ever do want to expand the game at least there will be some profile. For a sport trying to raise and broaden its` profile and the profile of its WC it is an incremental missed opportunity.

I think the interesting comparison would be between the profile of the NRL in afl obsessed South and Western Australia and  League in any where outside the heartlands in your country. Often just happy that the local population just know that the game still exists.

With regards to some of your other points it is easy for me to forget that not every where is like here where the fortunes of the two major sporting codes are inextricably linked with their commercial broadcast partners. As much as I hate to admit it the afl and channel 7 leave the NRL for dust in the way they promote that game. There is hardly a Ch7 promo that does not feature an afl player or someone making an afl catch, many of their reality programmes will include afl players and  their top rating morning breakfast show hosts always seem to be wearing an afl scarf or something. This has made it so much easier for that code to infiltrate our state. Channel 9 with Karl Stevanovich is trying but 9 doesn`t seem to have its` heart in it as much as 7.

As regards your last paragraph I`ve been reading this a lot lately with examples like posting `Bevan French`s tries` on Youtube or wherever people young or otherwise will come across it. To be perfectly frank I just don`t see this as the way to actually grow the fan base. To your average young person who does not follow RL this will only have the same resonance as a spectacular catch in Gaelic Football, or whatever they do in that game or any other minor sport for that matter.. Unless there is an emotional attachment to the code or a team then these things are just a source of momentary visual gratification.

Yes they will help keep the already familiar and the already involved attached to the game but as far as spreading the game and making new fans I`m sure the internet is full of spectacular catches and moves from any number of other sports and Leagues great tries and big hits will just join that passing parade of momentary entertainment.

Providing RL gossip and news will have even less resonance. And after that what else is there to put up.

The key to the success of any team sport that runs for extended periods of the year is getting people to have an emotional interest in the success of a particular team. It`s been said on this forum that the limited geographical footprint of League in the UK shouldn`t be a hindrance to the formation of `super` clubs that transcend their geographical boundaries, I would agree that is possible for a couple of clubs but certainly not for a whole code.

I think the RFL could post all the spectacular tries, tackles , gossip, profiles in the world on-line but until they give people a local team to attach themselves to, get emotionally invested in  across the breadth of your country,  to those who aren`t already attached to the game it will be but passing entertainment or even worse ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I suppose we have both gotten a little removed from the original point of this thread, i.e. the failure of the Sunday Times to mention the RLWC in its` list of significant sporting events in 2021. Consequently missing an opportunity to capitalise on the good promotional work being done elsewhere, and amongst what I would gather is a non-traditional League audience. If the Times is any thing like the broadsheets over here `hardcopy` readership is `X` and the on-line readership is `several times X`. That is important to remember. I still think it is essential though to get into those sort of publications because if you ever do want to expand the game at least there will be some profile. For a sport trying to raise and broaden its` profile and the profile of its WC it is an incremental missed opportunity.

I think the interesting comparison would be between the profile of the NRL in afl obsessed South and Western Australia and  League in any where outside the heartlands in your country. Often just happy that the local population just know that the game still exists.

With regards to some of your other points it is easy for me to forget that not every where is like here where the fortunes of the two major sporting codes are inextricably linked with their commercial broadcast partners. As much as I hate to admit it the afl and channel 7 leave the NRL for dust in the way they promote that game. There is hardly a Ch7 promo that does not feature an afl player or someone making an afl catch, many of their reality programmes will include afl players and  their top rating morning breakfast show hosts always seem to be wearing an afl scarf or something. This has made it so much easier for that code to infiltrate our state. Channel 9 with Karl Stevanovich is trying but 9 doesn`t seem to have its` heart in it as much as 7.

As regards your last paragraph I`ve been reading this a lot lately with examples like posting `Bevan French`s tries` on Youtube or wherever people young or otherwise will come across it. To be perfectly frank I just don`t see this as the way to actually grow the fan base. To your average young person who does not follow RL this will only have the same resonance as a spectacular catch in Gaelic Football, or whatever they do in that game or any other minor sport for that matter.. Unless there is an emotional attachment to the code or a team then these things are just a source of momentary visual gratification.

Yes they will help keep the already familiar and the already involved attached to the game but as far as spreading the game and making new fans I`m sure the internet is full of spectacular catches and moves from any number of other sports and Leagues great tries and big hits will just join that passing parade of momentary entertainment.

Providing RL gossip and news will have even less resonance. And after that what else is there to put up.

The key to the success of any team sport that runs for extended periods of the year is getting people to have an emotional interest in the success of a particular team. It`s been said on this forum that the limited geographical footprint of League in the UK shouldn`t be a hindrance to the formation of `super` clubs that transcend their geographical boundaries, I would agree that is possible for a couple of clubs but certainly not for a whole code.

I think the RFL could post all the spectacular tries, tackles , gossip, profiles in the world on-line but until they give people a local team to attach themselves to, get emotionally invested in  across the breadth of your country,  to those who aren`t already attached to the game it will be but passing entertainment or even worse ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

I understand what you are talking about with the You Tube information but, as with a lot of things that are posted on here in terms of marketing the game, it should not be seen in isolation. 

You do not do just the you tube video, it is done along with content on other channels of information, on other apps. My son will watch all sorts of trash on you tube mostly watching other people watch and comment on stuff, its ridiculous.. but he has come in and spoken about all sorts of things with me just because some "influencer type" has been talking about it.. I've ended up watching 1980s basketball with him because someone was talking about Michael Jordan and showed some clips.. so we found loads more that were proper clips not just some dulard talking over while watching them.. its really very different way of viewing content.. he'll also watch videos of other people playing video games and talking about it.. it is truly the strangest thing.

but that is what you need to eat into.. but it is only part of what you have to do.. in the same way as advertising is only part of a true marketing campaign.. 

With your first paragraph.. yes there is online readership but for the times it is subscription based so again its preaching to the converted to a point.. I''m not sure the last time i was on a newspaper site to be honest.. 

honestly i dont think it is that big a deal, except for it being slightly annoying for those of us who like RL.. its a bit of a slap in the face and it is a bit of an oversight by the paper but it isnt going to make or break the world cup and I dont think too heavy a judgment should be made to those working on it.. i would much rather it be in the guardian (which i think it was) and in things like wikipedia and other searchable online sites so that people later in the year can still see it is a "one to watch in 2021".. thats when it will be more important IMHO.

I see this as another one of those green crayon moments. People getting very annoyed (with cause granted) about something that isnt that important.. we have much bigger issues that the readership of the Times. They can also be fixed much easier as well and bypass these sorts of people who are becoming more and more irrelevant and it scaraes them.

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4 hours ago, RP London said:

I understand what you are talking about with the You Tube information but, as with a lot of things that are posted on here in terms of marketing the game, it should not be seen in isolation. 

You do not do just the you tube video, it is done along with content on other channels of information, on other apps. My son will watch all sorts of trash on you tube mostly watching other people watch and comment on stuff, its ridiculous.. but he has come in and spoken about all sorts of things with me just because some "influencer type" has been talking about it.. I've ended up watching 1980s basketball with him because someone was talking about Michael Jordan and showed some clips.. so we found loads more that were proper clips not just some dulard talking over while watching them.. its really very different way of viewing content.. he'll also watch videos of other people playing video games and talking about it.. it is truly the strangest thing.

but that is what you need to eat into.. but it is only part of what you have to do.. in the same way as advertising is only part of a true marketing campaign.. 

With your first paragraph.. yes there is online readership but for the times it is subscription based so again its preaching to the converted to a point.. I''m not sure the last time i was on a newspaper site to be honest.. 

honestly i dont think it is that big a deal, except for it being slightly annoying for those of us who like RL.. its a bit of a slap in the face and it is a bit of an oversight by the paper but it isnt going to make or break the world cup and I dont think too heavy a judgment should be made to those working on it.. i would much rather it be in the guardian (which i think it was) and in things like wikipedia and other searchable online sites so that people later in the year can still see it is a "one to watch in 2021".. thats when it will be more important IMHO.

I see this as another one of those green crayon moments. People getting very annoyed (with cause granted) about something that isnt that important.. we have much bigger issues that the readership of the Times. They can also be fixed much easier as well and bypass these sorts of people who are becoming more and more irrelevant and it scaraes them.

Thanks for your response. I would be the first to admit that my knowledge on the different demographics of the various newspapers in GB is sorely lacking, so I take your point. I used to buy a paper called the Guardian Weekly 30 years ago, it wasn`t much bigger than A3 and printed on what was almost like rice paper, I used to love the journalism in that paper, absolutely top notch. It was divided into three sections with a section each for The Guardian, Le Monde and I think The Washington Post. Being of limited size and a weekly I don`t think it did sport just concentrated on the best articles from each of those papers for that week.

There has been a programme called `Gruen` running over here now on the ABC for the last 12 years, it analyses all aspects of  the advertising industry, I`ve never watched it because I can`t stand the host, I am regretting it now as I have become quite fascinated on how the Rugby League could run an on-line campaign to help turn around its` fortunes. especially this idea of a multi-pronged approach that you mention. These sort of campaigns is what the programme covers I assume. I hear a lot of talk on here that it should be done, that it is the answer, but I never see what a comprehensive plan may look like, perhaps a forum like this isn`t the place for laying out what a top to bottom campaign may look like.

Any way it`s a fascinating topic and thank you for your opinion. 

 

 

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On 04/01/2021 at 13:45, Wirral Warrior said:

Eventhough I am not totally suprised, but I was disappointed not read any mention of the 2021 Rugby Leage World Cup in their preview of the '2021 Sporting Bonanza' either in the article or the accompanying chronological table of 2021 events.

The article was actually penned by David Walsh who has a good reputation for investigative sports journalism. In my opinion his lofty reputation took a dent yesterday with this omission.

There will be a pent up demand to view regular events such as Wimbledon, but to omit the RL World Cup to be played on home soil, is lazy jounalism at best.

This is a global tournament that will draw upto 3/4m spectators and will be covered on terrestrial television

Some initial Twitter reaction suggested that 'its the sports fault' for not pusuing a more aggressive PR campaign so Walsh et al could not ignore the sport.

This is probably true, but my view is that it is incumbent on everyone involved in the spot ( fans, administartors, journalists etc) to publically and consistently call out such poor quality media reporting

Been the same since mid 00's papers are in decline social media the way forward.

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9 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Thanks for your response. I would be the first to admit that my knowledge on the different demographics of the various newspapers in GB is sorely lacking, so I take your point. I used to buy a paper called the Guardian Weekly 30 years ago, it wasn`t much bigger than A3 and printed on what was almost like rice paper, I used to love the journalism in that paper, absolutely top notch. It was divided into three sections with a section each for The Guardian, Le Monde and I think The Washington Post. Being of limited size and a weekly I don`t think it did sport just concentrated on the best articles from each of those papers for that week.

There has been a programme called `Gruen` running over here now on the ABC for the last 12 years, it analyses all aspects of  the advertising industry, I`ve never watched it because I can`t stand the host, I am regretting it now as I have become quite fascinated on how the Rugby League could run an on-line campaign to help turn around its` fortunes. especially this idea of a multi-pronged approach that you mention. These sort of campaigns is what the programme covers I assume. I hear a lot of talk on here that it should be done, that it is the answer, but I never see what a comprehensive plan may look like, perhaps a forum like this isn`t the place for laying out what a top to bottom campaign may look like.

Any way it`s a fascinating topic and thank you for your opinion. 

 

 

wouldnt profess to be an expert in it at all but i run a manufacturing business that has a couple of brands so know a bit and my wife is in marketing and comms (very very busy at the moment) so picked up the odd bit. Do find it interesting though and try to watch/listen/read things on it while also doing a few things with Hallam University with work just to pick stuff up we can do ourselves.

its watching what other sports have done but RL is so insular its really frustrating. You can see employees moving between sports in almost every other sport as their knowledge of the industry and contacts is more important than the actual sport. In RL you rarely seem to see this at the top. The last time we really did it with Richard Lewis it worked pretty well but since then 2 internal uninspiring choices, ok for consolidation (which does need to happen from time to time) but not for moving forward. 

I often mention on here that we could have done a lot worse than wooing the ex head of England Netball as she did a fantastic job of re developing top level netball in this country but also get loads of people playing it.. totally different sport due to its abitlity to "play anywhere" but with the knowledge and contacts she could have made a big difference to RL IMHO But she is now the CEO of UK Athletics so will be interesting (when she gets the chance) to see how she drives that forward, another sport needing a real refresh and development, new domestic competition needed etc.. 

Honestly RL could do so much itself, i know it isnt necessarily cheap, which it can then send out to "lazy journalists" to use, there are freelance journos and writers who you could use that arent that expensive.. they just need to (and i hate the phrase) think a bit outside the box.. if journos are lazy dont try to change the journo give them what they want.. if the paper cant be arsed to research properly make sure you are in their inbox all the time so they dont have to... we wont change them because we're not big enough so adapt to them.. When i was media manager at South London we got articles in local papers because on a sunday evening/monday lunchtime i took the time to write the match reports and send them to every local and RL paper we got some really good coverage with the same article (and my name hardly ever appeared as the writer, but i didnt care).. the exposure led to more players coming led to a better team led to more interest etc.. its not as easy as this on a national front of course it isnt but the general idea is there.

anyway, i think i may have strode a bit off topic... naughty Times.

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On 11/01/2021 at 11:44, The Rocket said:

 

Well done the pair of you, we can make a difference, if everyone on here fired off an email or twitter in outrage over the omission in last weeks paper, literally hundreds, certainly scores instead of just agreeing with that `we`ve done all we can` and `that`s just the way it is`, we may well have got a proper article of our own covering the tournament, especially if the IRL had a nice little piece prepared, what is the point of having `OURLEAGUE` if your not prepared to use to reach fans and rally them, what ####### me is that the IRL should have moles on these sites and when something like this happen be rallying the troops instead of leaving it to blokes like you to provide contact points with the various media outlets. ABSOLUTELY NO IMAGINATION.

Spot on...

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On 11/01/2021 at 15:41, fighting irish said:

I salute you for pricking the mans conscience. What i meant was that a personal response to you (by email) hardly makes up for the major damage done (hiding the World  cup from their entire readership) by omitting the competition from a preview of the years sporting events. I'm on your side mate. My attack was on the chap that sent you the email. Haunt away.

Good man !

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On 12/01/2021 at 09:40, RP London said:

RL needs to be at the forefront of pushing their story into these areas, facebook, twitter, snapchat etc are where you will catch younger audiences attention 

RL is in what must be a unique position that most of the audience instinctively think it is another sport. This is presumably at least as true of younger people. Other than insisting that neither RL nor RU should ever be referred to as "Rugby", I`m short on ideas of how to establish a clear identity in our promotion. If PTBs in the UK weren`t such an embarrassment, I would suggest that every clip of action should always begin before the PTB, never after. 

If nothing more subtle can be conceived, maybe attaching "This is Rugby LEAGUE (not Rugby Union)" to everything posted, would be preferable to leaving any impression that it`s all just "Rugby". Might be a sledgehammer, but it would make people think.

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On 11/01/2021 at 15:41, fighting irish said:

I salute you for pricking the mans conscience. What i meant was that a personal response to you (by email) hardly makes up for the major damage done (hiding the World  cup from their entire readership) by omitting the competition from a preview of the years sporting events. I'm on your side mate. My attack was on the chap that sent you the email. Haunt away.

He is a main stream journalist, he hasn't got one (No offence, Mr Drake, Sir).

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Where were you last Thursday?

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On 12/01/2021 at 14:01, The Rocket said:

I suppose we have both gotten a little removed from the original point of this thread, i.e. the failure of the Sunday Times to mention the RLWC in its` list of significant sporting events in 2021. Consequently missing an opportunity to capitalise on the good promotional work being done elsewhere, and amongst what I would gather is a non-traditional League audience. If the Times is any thing like the broadsheets over here `hardcopy` readership is `X` and the on-line readership is `several times X`. That is important to remember. I still think it is essential though to get into those sort of publications because if you ever do want to expand the game at least there will be some profile. For a sport trying to raise and broaden its` profile and the profile of its WC it is an incremental missed opportunity.

I think the interesting comparison would be between the profile of the NRL in afl obsessed South and Western Australia and  League in any where outside the heartlands in your country. Often just happy that the local population just know that the game still exists.

With regards to some of your other points it is easy for me to forget that not every where is like here where the fortunes of the two major sporting codes are inextricably linked with their commercial broadcast partners. As much as I hate to admit it the afl and channel 7 leave the NRL for dust in the way they promote that game. There is hardly a Ch7 promo that does not feature an afl player or someone making an afl catch, many of their reality programmes will include afl players and  their top rating morning breakfast show hosts always seem to be wearing an afl scarf or something. This has made it so much easier for that code to infiltrate our state. Channel 9 with Karl Stevanovich is trying but 9 doesn`t seem to have its` heart in it as much as 7.

As regards your last paragraph I`ve been reading this a lot lately with examples like posting `Bevan French`s tries` on Youtube or wherever people young or otherwise will come across it. To be perfectly frank I just don`t see this as the way to actually grow the fan base. To your average young person who does not follow RL this will only have the same resonance as a spectacular catch in Gaelic Football, or whatever they do in that game or any other minor sport for that matter.. Unless there is an emotional attachment to the code or a team then these things are just a source of momentary visual gratification.

Yes they will help keep the already familiar and the already involved attached to the game but as far as spreading the game and making new fans I`m sure the internet is full of spectacular catches and moves from any number of other sports and Leagues great tries and big hits will just join that passing parade of momentary entertainment.

Providing RL gossip and news will have even less resonance. And after that what else is there to put up.

The key to the success of any team sport that runs for extended periods of the year is getting people to have an emotional interest in the success of a particular team. It`s been said on this forum that the limited geographical footprint of League in the UK shouldn`t be a hindrance to the formation of `super` clubs that transcend their geographical boundaries, I would agree that is possible for a couple of clubs but certainly not for a whole code.

I think the RFL could post all the spectacular tries, tackles , gossip, profiles in the world on-line but until they give people a local team to attach themselves to, get emotionally invested in  across the breadth of your country,  to those who aren`t already attached to the game it will be but passing entertainment or even worse ignored.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are going a bit too far there Rocket with the emotional attachment requirement. An emotional attachment is the ultimate, but you don’t need to go that far to draw people in.

I have zero emotional attachment to basketball or any basketball team, but I recall watching it and the Chicago Bulls when Michael Jordan played (his last season I believe, they played Utah Jazz in the finals). I saw him do that winning shot where he ran forward then stopped (taking the opposition player out), then calmly shot and kept the same pose for a second after he landed (quite a famous image in basketball apparently).

Big names—generally those who produce moments of brilliance—will draw people in. I may already have a vested interest in football (Liverpool FC are the only team in sport I have an emotional attachment to), but that’s not the main reason I watched Barcelona week in week out for two decades. I watched them because they had Ronaldo (1996-1997), Rivaldo (1997-2001), Ronaldinho (2003-2008), Messi (2005-present), I knew I’d see brilliance. Only Real Madrid have a bigger global support base than Barcelona in team sport and it’s because of those stars. How many people watched tennis because of Federer? 

There is no bigger draw than star names (sport, cinema, music, etc). The issue I have with RL is it doesn’t allow for star names to be created, certainly nothing like the Wigan team at Wembley (Offiah, Robinson, Tuigamala), as the open attacking style of play isn’t there anymore with it being a much more defensively sound attritional game. When individuals are allowed to stand out (as Jonah Lomu, the last RU star, did with NZ when he became an overnight superstar after scoring four against England) they captivate existing audiences, and draw in new ones. I got up on Saturday mornings at 7am to see Lomu and NZ, been well over 15 years since I did that as RU has gone even further than RL with the attritional stuff. 

Just read a complaint on here today that Wayne Bennett “didn’t grow the game here”. If anything he did the opposite, as he took the attritional stuff to the extreme. The 2017 RLWC final was an 80 minute arm wrestle, solely for RL purists. If you had watched RL for the first time, at the end of that game you would have went away still not knowing any player. If say a player was allowed to show a couple moments of brilliance, make a few eye catching runs etc, a new viewer would have caught their name, as would the media. The wrestle (from Australia) has only exacerbated the attritional aspect of the sport. The once free flowing attacking game that allowed individuals to shine and become stars, and draw in potential new audiences, doesn’t exist right now. That for me is the biggest thing RL needs to address.

Edited by DC77
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A bit of perspective about The Times: The Indy hasn't forgotten about the RLWC it's forgotten RL exists at all. TGG has become the lusus non gratis of English Journalism. That's quite an achievenment and maybe we should start celebrating triumphs like this one. It's taken us 120 odd years to disappear altogether from English culture & not many people know that!

 

 

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On 14/01/2021 at 10:25, unapologetic pedant said:

RL is in what must be a unique position that most of the audience instinctively think it is another sport. This is presumably at least as true of younger people. Other than insisting that neither RL nor RU should ever be referred to as "Rugby", I`m short on ideas of how to establish a clear identity in our promotion. If PTBs in the UK weren`t such an embarrassment, I would suggest that every clip of action should always begin before the PTB, never after. 

If nothing more subtle can be conceived, maybe attaching "This is Rugby LEAGUE (not Rugby Union)" to everything posted, would be preferable to leaving any impression that it`s all just "Rugby". Might be a sledgehammer, but it would make people think.

I agree with everything you say here.

It's tragic that with so little exposure for our sport, we allow this inept mis-communication to so effectively undermine the impact that we could make.

Who cares though? Is anyone (in a position to change this) listening?

Write to Elstone UP, get this vital message across. Please? 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

I agree with everything you say here.

It's tragic that with so little exposure for our sport, we allow this inept mis-communication to so effectively undermine the impact that we could make.

Who cares though? Is anyone (in a position to change this) listening?

Write to Elstone UP, get this vital message across. Please? 

Seen the headline over on the `Total Rugby League News` page:

  ` Leigh Centurions appoint Garreth Carvell as new Head of Rugby ".

Quite annoying that on the very same page that`s called `Total Rugby League News` they have a headline like that.

 I think at the end of the day though we can`t worry too much about this, the products are really are quite different and the general public aren`t stupid, they will differentiate.  And as people in new places take up our game and have access to NRL or SLE on Facebook or You Tube or whatever the differences will become apparent very quickly. 

I think that League is in no different a situation than many other products or services that have a close competitor with a similar name, frustrating yes, but as I said before the public aren`t stupid they will sort it out.

And in some ways ironically, I think it can work to our advantage riding on the coat tails of the much larger and more visible `rugby union` by maybe at first  being able to grab peoples attention. The differences can be sorted out later on. 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Seen the headline over on the `Total Rugby League News` page:

  ` Leigh Centurions appoint Garreth Carvell as new Head of Rugby ".

Quite annoying that on the very same page that`s called `Total Rugby League News` they have a headline like that.

 I think at the end of the day though we can`t worry too much about this, the products are really are quite different and the general public aren`t stupid, they will differentiate.  And as people in new places take up our game and have access to NRL or SLE on Facebook or You Tube or whatever the differences will become apparent very quickly. 

I think that League is in no different a situation than many other products or services that have a close competitor with a similar name, frustrating yes, but as I said before the public aren`t stupid they will sort it out.

And in some ways ironically, I think it can work to our advantage riding on the coat tails of the much larger and more visible `rugby union` by maybe at first  being able to grab peoples attention. The differences can be sorted out later on. 

 

 

 

I, like you, have great confidence in the ability of our great game to hook newcomers. 

I suppose dwelling on what seems like a 'minor' point could be construed as pendantry. 

I'm with U.P. though Rocket.

As a general rule, if there's a better way to do something, I'll take it.

It's only my gut feeling but I think the numbers (of people we lose) could be significant.

I can just see a lot of people turning off, when our all-too-meagre promotional stuff breaks thro' to their consciousness simply because they are not interested in RaRa.

So our opportunity is lost, shot to pieces, before they even realise that what's being shown is different, better, by a country mile.

Starting with a play-the-ball and making sure the words Rugby League are always used instead of just Rugby (RaRa) should improve our ''break through''.

Keeping newcomers interested until the promo is finished, rather than losing them before we have a chance to make an impression. 

Small gains compound.

I'll take that 

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5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I can just see a lot of people turning off, when our all-too-meagre promotional stuff breaks thro' to their consciousness simply because they are not interested in RaRa.

So our opportunity is lost, shot to pieces, before they even realise that what's being shown is different, better, by a country mile.

Starting with a play-the-ball and making sure the words Rugby League are always used instead of just Rugby (RaRa) should improve our ''break through''.

Agree that certainly is the danger in spreading League where people have been exposed to the drudgery of union, they will slam the door in our face so to speak before they even get a chance to sample the new improved version.

Completely greenfield sites, well I suppose there is no excuse for not marking our product clearly from the outset, that damn word `rugby` is always going to lead to some confusion though I suppose.

Little things like Barry O`Farrell hashtagging `spiritofrugby` are no brainers though, when it should have been `AsiaPacificRugbyLeague` instead. They are the little ones that those at the top have to get right.

I honestly do believe in the 6 months now that I have been on this forum I have seen it become more of an issue and certainly people on these sites are more conscious of making themselves clear, even the RFL and IRL seem to be emphasising that word `League` more, that`s great news. I can remember very clearly when I first came on this forum being criticised for referring to Rugby League just as League. No one seems to bat an eye now or maybe they just tolerate the dopey Aussie.

I know recently the Pedant told me that it is wearing continually picking people up on the importance of getting the terminology right, but as I said I think the discussion has begun and there is more of an effort being made. Ideas like those RLWC face masks are brilliant though, you got to laugh though with the thread announcing them being called `RWC Face Masks`, ah well.. we`ll get there.

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11 hours ago, The Rocket said:

And in some ways ironically, I think it can work to our advantage riding on the coat tails of the much larger and more visible `rugby union` by maybe at first  being able to grab peoples attention. The differences can be sorted out later on. 

I used to think this "foot in the door" approach had merit. Maybe it does in very particular initial circumstances. But generally it seems to create an image at the outset of RL as a minor derivative, which is then hard to escape from. Promotion is at least as likely to alert new audiences to the existence of the larger rival.

Describing RL as "Rugby" can also enable Union authorities to depict League developers as fraudsters, trying to pass their product off as another`s. Consequently sports administrators and politicians are more sympathetic to the type of RU lobbying and sabotage that would be hard to morally and legally justify otherwise. Most egregious example is the post-war French "Jeu a Treize" palaver. In wasting their energy trying to contest part ownership of the word "Rugby" our French friends ended up with nothing more distinctive than a number.

Toronto was shaping as the first significant example where the League/Union conflation might be working to our advantage. But ultimately it provided further evidence of its imprudence. Whatever remains of their efforts after the collapse can only benefit RU. The Wolfpack`s owners appear to have done nothing for RL at grass roots level. This must be due in part to their view that the game on the field is "Rugby". And that "League" simply refers to the governing body whose competition they were a part of.

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2 hours ago, Oxford said:

But which way up should the boiled Egg be?

"O pointy bird  O pointy pointy,

annoint thy head, annointy-nointy"

Pointy end up ! Of course.

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2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

"O pointy bird  O pointy pointy,

annoint thy head, annointy-nointy"

Pointy end up ! Of course.

Well I'm glad we've cleared that one up, at least.

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6 hours ago, The Rocket said:

"O pointy bird  O pointy pointy,

annoint thy head, annointy-nointy"

Pointy end up ! Of course.

 

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

Well I'm glad we've cleared that one up, at least.

But surely, evolution would dictate, (I hope) that at the moment of birth, the pointy end comes out (downward) first?

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11 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

 

But surely, evolution would dictate, (I hope) that at the moment of birth, the pointy end comes out (downward) first?

Well bug ger me.

The egg is formed in the uterus pointy end down (the same shape as the uterus) but turns in order to be born (laid) round end first!!!!!

Poor chicken.

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

Well bug ger me.

The egg is formed in the uterus pointy end down (the same shape as the uterus) but turns in order to be born (laid) round end first!!!!!

Poor chicken.

Youch !! Talk about making things difficult for yourself. Must be where the expression ` pushing one out backwards ` comes from.

I`m sure there must be a ` Why did the chicken cross the road  " joke in there somewhere, or maybe UP will have a limerick to suit the occasion.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Youch !! Talk about making things difficult for yourself. Must be where the expression ` pushing one out backwards ` comes from.

I`m sure there must be a ` Why did the chicken cross the road  " joke in there somewhere, or maybe UP will have a limerick to suit the occasion.

 

I've got one. Why did the pervert cross the road? 

Because he was stuck up the chicken! 

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