Toulouse imploding

[gingerjon]

34 minutes ago, dkw said:

An absolute masterpiece of a book.

I reference it all the time. Probably the book I’ve read most times.

[kiggy]

33 minutes ago, dkw said:

An absolute masterpiece of a book.

Well...if we can't agree on the Rugby at least we can agree on Pratchett being a genius.

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I reference it all the time. Probably the book I’ve read most times.

More often than this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Game-Hooligans-History-Rugby-Union/dp/1845962559/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3K9S3TX6T0Q0L&keywords=rugby+union+history&qid=1647447793&sprefix=rugby+union+history%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-1

[dkw]

1 hour ago, kiggy said:

Well...if we can't agree on the Rugby at least we can agree on Pratchett being a genius.

Neil Gaiman is also a brilliant author, Good Omens was a magnificent book by them both.

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, dkw said:

I would ignore his ramblings, he`s now in an ivory tower having an owner willing to throw money about (until hes not again) and forgets its not that long ago they were begging for money from anywhere. 

Who begged, when did this fictitious inability to pay bills and wages occur?

 

[sweaty craiq]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Which are the other two French clubs, and why only 16 English, I can think of more who’d be worthy of a place;

 Saints, , Leeds, Wire, Salford, Widnes, Hull x 2, Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield, Newcastle, York, Barrow, Sheffield, Leigh, Fev, Broncos. Plus maybe Rochdale, NWC, Doncaster, Cornwall, Workington, Whitehaven, Midlands and possibly others.

 

10x2 would cut a number of those clubs above off, and all the rest in the championship and L1, they might as well fold or go fully amateur. 

Would be great if all could put up the bond, go FT and guarantee to spend a minimum of say £1.4m in SL2 on a squad - the more the merrier I agree with you. Those not in a position initially should be encouraged to build for the next review, in the meantime the semi pro comp is the right place for them.

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Would be great if all could put up the bond, go FT and guarantee to spend a minimum of say £1.4m in SL2 on a squad - the more the merrier I agree with you. Those not in a position initially should be encouraged to build for the next review, in the meantime the semi pro comp is the right place for them.

If the salary cap was increased more investors would be prepared to put money in I think. At the moment who would bother, it’s not like some clubs are even allowed an academy so those who have them hold all the aces right away. 

[dealwithit]

On 16/03/2022 at 23:13, Dave T said:

And that brings us nicely onto the core point. So if the RFL are paying this, what are they using to pay the costs? Because they don't have half a million a year to cover this. And what benefit does the RFL get?

I suspect your point is that it is taken from central funding - well that is just the clubs paying for it. That's not a bad approach in itself, but it does then leave us open to poor decisions being made because of costs to individual clubs.

Ultimately this type of thing just highlights flaws in governnace.

Maybe it does highlight flaws. 
But if central funding is used for all travel costs — that is money before club grants — then it means League 1 teams travelling to Canada, SL clubs travelling to France or a challenge cup tie in Dublin are all paid for upfront. The lucky dip is no longer a problem. 
But before you commit to that as a governing body, you would probably develop a long term strategy for the sport before admitting teams from Toronto, Dublin or Belgrade. 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

Maybe it does highlight flaws. 
But if central funding is used for all travel costs — that is money before club grants — then it means League 1 teams travelling to Canada, SL clubs travelling to France or a challenge cup tie in Dublin are all paid for upfront. The lucky dip is no longer a problem. 
But before you commit to that as a governing body, you would probably develop a long term strategy for the sport before admitting teams from Toronto, Dublin or Belgrade. 

To be fair to the RFL, the strategy has been that anyone can join as long as they cover the costs, because there is no central funding to cover it. 

People don't like that. 

[dealwithit]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

To be fair to the RFL, the strategy has been that anyone can join as long as they cover the costs, because there is no central funding to cover it. 

People don't like that. 

That strategy is fine, but not all clubs will survive and that leads to disappointment and distrust in the governing body. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, dealwithit said:

That strategy is fine, but not all clubs will survive and that leads to disappointment and distrust in the governing body. 

I'd much rather we had a coherent strategy that involved only admitting expansion clubs witha strong business case and funding in place. 

Unfortunately I suspect we would never see a new club join the league. 

[dealwithit]

22 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'd much rather we had a coherent strategy that involved only admitting expansion clubs witha strong business case and funding in place. 

Unfortunately I suspect we would never see a new club join the league. 

100%
 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Can we change the thread title now Toulouse have beaten Saints 

[Scubby]

You have to give a huge amount of credit to Sylvan Houles.

The guy was given no money to recruit, lost his most experienced spine players just before the season and got whacked in his first game.

He stuck with his squad and didn't panic. They fully deserve to get their first win and the adversity may well galvanise the club.

[Eddie]

On 18/03/2022 at 12:29, Dave T said:

I'd much rather we had a coherent strategy that involved only admitting expansion clubs witha strong business case and funding in place. 

Unfortunately I suspect we would never see a new club join the league. 

Time will tell about Cornwall, but I’m optimistic. 

[The Daddy]

Has the imploding started yet or did I miss it?

[RL Sonja]

Such a wonderful result for Toulouse. 

Also a great result for the Super League. How often does last beat first in the Premier League? Last time for example was when?

[Adelaide Tiger]

On 17/03/2022 at 05:18, Eddie said:

If the salary cap was increased more investors would be prepared to put money in I think.

I would partially agree with that comment but would add that the lack of security of the investment also inhibits more investors coming into the game.

Rimmer stated recently that the existing league structure will remain in situ for the next couple of years.  Therefore it will be interesting to see if retaining the existing structure beyond 2024, or introducing a new structure such as 2 x 10 will provide the newly created Joint Venture Company with something it can sell not just to commercial partners but to people that want to invest in clubs themselves.

 

[theswanmcr]

4 hours ago, RL Sonja said:

Such a wonderful result for Toulouse. 

Also a great result for the Super League. How often does last beat first in the Premier League? Last time for example was when?

Not very often… https://www.premierleague.com/news/1530127

But there are 20 teams and often the very bottom team is cut adrift from the rest. A better comparison would be Top 4 vs Bottom 4 there. Can’t find any stats but you do see wins or at least draws quite a bit there.  

[JonM]

On 16/03/2022 at 14:27, gingerjon said:

A quote from Good Omens.

'Shadwell hated all southerners and, by implication, was standing on the North Pole ...'

i've spent the last week on Svalbard (amazing place). The locals consider the people from the Arctic North of mainland Norway to be soft southerners living a life of luxury with their fancy plants that grow outside in summer and all.

[RL Sonja]

12 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Not very often… https://www.premierleague.com/news/1530127

But there are 20 teams and often the very bottom team is cut adrift from the rest. A better comparison would be Top 4 vs Bottom 4 there. Can’t find any stats but you do see wins or at least draws quite a bit there.  

So 4 times in nearly 30 years. Once every 7.5 years on average does the bottom side beat the top side in the Premier (sic) League. 

Yet it is eulogised as if it represents the second coming. 

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, JonM said:

i've spent the last week on Svalbard (amazing place). 

Both envious and glad I wasn't there.

[theswanmcr]

2 minutes ago, RL Sonja said:

So 4 times in nearly 30 years. Once every 7.5 years on average does the bottom side beat the top side in the Premier (sic) League. 

Yet it is eulogised as if it represents the second coming. 

I think what it does show is our incorrect obsession with competitiveness across the league as a whole.

Norwich have been a yo-yo team for years - walking the Championship and then getting hammered each week and finishing bottom of the Premier League.
 

The difference is that with a bigger league with more teams you get a much more interesting battle and more upsets for the other two relegation spots.

We could easily do something similar… 14 teams with bottom one (often way adrift) automatically  relegated but the 13th also possibly relegated in a play off with Championship second team. 

[Scubby]

The difference in RL is that the game is skint. SL is pretty much #### or bust.

Clubs like Cas having a #### season and getting relegated could set them back years when actually the club is on the up as an organisation (and are just struggling a bit on the field). They got 10,500 for Salford at home FFS and are finally building a new stand at their stadium.

Toulouse are going to build into SL, get new sponsors, new fans and gain more confidence and you could relegate them and set them back 5 years. The same goes for Wakefield who are actually going to start building work this year. They go down you have to completely deconstruct a full time organisation - people will lose jobs on and off the pitch.

At the moment, there are a couple of clubs in the Championship on the up and 14 teams playing each other home and away makes complete sense. 

You cannot keep giving players 9 month full time contracts with clauses in and hope to have a strong competition.

[Jughead]

Big thing for Toulouse now is when/if they get their second win. Another win in quick succession and there’s a chance for them, if they go another 5-6 rounds, it’s very tough for them.