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Toulouse imploding


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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, many saying things like this are the ones championing rules to be changed. Including yourself. 

Wanting rules that dont create unfair and impossible situations for clubs to improve or catch up to the other SL clubs are very different to the ones currently thrust upon them due to insular short sightedness.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

Wanting rules that dont create unfair and impossible situations for clubs to improve or catch up to the other SL clubs are very different to the ones currently thrust upon them due to insular short sightedness.

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

I have read ‘rules’ regarding assisting promoted teams somewhere in RFL documents but I can remember where.  

Possible this was from the 90’s but either way, the system of P&R we have now is not really much different to football except for those clubs having more money to spend when promoted and the game doesn’t rely on physical domination as much.

Too many different permutations of P&R to even bother contemplating.  

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I have read ‘rules’ regarding assisting promoted teams somewhere in RFL documents but I can remember where.  

Possible this was from the 90’s but either way, the system of P&R we have now is not really much different to football except for those clubs having more money to spend when promoted and the game doesn’t rely on physical domination as much.

Too many different permutations of P&R to even bother contemplating.  

And the salary cap...

To succeed in football, most promoted teams have to spend loads, often more than the top teams. We strictly prohibit that for promoted teams.

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4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And the salary cap...

To succeed in football, most promoted teams have to spend loads, often more than the top teams. We strictly prohibit that for promoted teams.

It would put a lot of a clubs money at risk to assemble a team which would have an above average chance of staying in SL.  One year contracts aren’t going to cut it and legal caveats for ‘if we don’t achieve promotion’ would riddle contracts.  Imo that’s not a good business plan unless you’ve the money of a very rich man.

Secondly, most of good player availability has been picked off until the NRL cut contracts or some ‘bad lads’ become available, plus, we have the Dolphins in the market place now.

Money and player availability are the main sticking points in my opinion.  

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

So all teams in SL are made to pay for travel for the opposition? Good to know.

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

So all teams in SL are made to pay for travel for the opposition? Good to know.

Oh jeez, this one again. 

None of this is new for Toulouse. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Oh jeez, this one again. 

None of this is new for Toulouse. 

 

So other SL teams pay for the opposition teams travel? Its a pretty simple question.

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32 minutes ago, dkw said:

So other SL teams pay for the opposition teams travel? Its a pretty simple question.

I have never claimed that to be the case. 

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

So other SL teams pay for the opposition teams travel? Its a pretty simple question.

Cats didn’t pick up Leigh’s travel costs last season, so is this only TO? Do you feel it acceptable for non UK SL clubs to get a share of the Sky funding when the broadcaster gets no subs from that nation for the sport?

 

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Just now, sweaty craiq said:

Cats didn’t pick up Leigh’s travel costs last season, so is this only TO? Do you feel it acceptable for non UK SL clubs to get a share of the Sky funding when the broadcaster gets no subs from that nation for the sport?

 

More people in the UK will want to watch a Catalans game than want to watch a Wakey or Salford game, it doesn’t matter whether the funding comes from people watching in France or here. And anyway, Sky don’t pay for the production costs of the games in France, so are getting a product for very little. 

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11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

More people in the UK will want to watch a Catalans game than want to watch a Wakey or Salford game, it doesn’t matter whether the funding comes from people watching in France or here. And anyway, Sky don’t pay for the production costs of the games in France, so are getting a product for very little. 

Will they?

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3 hours ago, Eddie said:

From a small sample of people I know, yes. 

I was talking to a couple of blokes the other day and all the three of us said the opposite. That's a small sample 

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3 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

I was talking to a couple of blokes the other day and all the three of us said the opposite. That's a small sample 

You all said you’d rather watch Wakefield Trinity than Catalans? Are you Trinity fans? 

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15 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Good old Starbug,always quick to rubbish other posters ideas but never offers any himself.

I'm fine with things as they are , except moving the lower tier season to boxing day start and August finish , giving any promoted team more time to prepare and recruit , as Widnes had in 2021

So are you going to answer my questions ? , Or are you bottling it again ? 

 

 

 

 

So bottling it is 

Edited by GUBRATS
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8 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Cats didn’t pick up Leigh’s travel costs last season, so is this only TO? Do you feel it acceptable for non UK SL clubs to get a share of the Sky funding when the broadcaster gets no subs from that nation for the sport?

 

Does Sky care? Clearly not. 

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5 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

That’s true the increased funding proves it

Yeah the decrease in the Sky funding was obviously a result of Leigh being relegated again from Superleague.

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On 08/03/2022 at 09:55, Jughead said:

Why should we ring-fence Toulouse Olympique but not Newcastle Thunder and/or York City Knights? Growth exists within the UK, too, and if we are ring-fencing certain clubs based on geography and the potential of certain clubs, why would we not do that for others based in the UK? And if we were too, how do you justify potentially relegating mid-table clubs based upon their face not fitting because of something like geographical location? 

I don`t think this is particularly `because they`re French` let`s protect them, or `ring-fence` them as you call it, argument. And if say York or Newcastle had been the team that had fought their way into the Super League we would be having the same debate about them.

In particular I find that your nomination of those two, one city team from a relatively large metropolis, is almost a concession that you understand the arguments being made for Toulouse, it`s just that they are not in Britain that you find the problem.

And I dare say that those on here arguing for the French city team would be arguing with just as hard for the two you nominated if they had scrapped and fought their way into the Super League and for exactly same reasons.

This isn`t a France vs. England debate. It`s a `we might have a club here that has real big-club potential ` argument. It just so happens that Toulouse are in France, they come from a city of 1 million people, they don`t have a hostile relationship with their co-tenant union club and they have a Mayor who has said publicly he wants that city to be " the oval-ball capital of Europe ". That`s before we even get to having a ready made rival who has trodden the same path successfully.

None of us can be certain that Toulouse are going to be a success, but you weigh up the pro`s and con`s and you place your bet, we may well be wrong, but that`s life, but you have to do something.

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20 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t think this is particularly `because they`re French` let`s protect them, or `ring-fence` them as you call it, argument. And if say York or Newcastle had been the team that had fought their way into the Super League we would be having the same debate about them.

In particular I find that your nomination of those two, one city team from a relatively large metropolis, is almost a concession that you understand the arguments being made for Toulouse, it`s just that they are not in Britain that you find the problem.

And I dare say that those on here arguing for the French city team would be arguing with just as hard for the two you nominated if they had scrapped and fought their way into the Super League and for exactly same reasons.

This isn`t a France vs. England debate. It`s a `we might have a club here that has real big-club potential ` argument. It just so happens that Toulouse are in France, they come from a city of 1 million people, they don`t have a hostile relationship with their co-tenant union club and they have a Mayor who has said publicly he wants that city to be " the oval-ball capital of Europe ". That`s before we even get to having a ready made rival who has trodden the same path successfully.

None of us can be certain that Toulouse are going to be a success, but you weigh up the pro`s and con`s and you place your bet, we may well be wrong, but that`s life, but you have to do something.

Not sure it is about the club for me because for me, it isnt an England vs France debate but an enabler.  

No UK team can play England in a regular international and generate the extra fta coverage and commercial rev that comes from that.  

By locking in french clubs you can get that increase in french player base to get a better Eng vs France and stronger French side. 

The TV money from the current SL product has probably peaked so we need to grow the biggest untapped market the european game has. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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14 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Not sure it is about the club for me because for me, it isnt an England vs France debate but an enabler.  

No UK team can play England in a regular international and generate the extra fta coverage and commercial rev that comes from that.  

By locking in french clubs you can get that increase in french player base to get a better Eng vs France and stronger French side. 

The TV money from the current SL product has probably peaked so we need to grow the biggest untapped market the european game has. 

And I`m sure that for most people it isn`t ; my response was for that particular poster. 

The rest of your points are further arguments why so many see Toulouse as an opportunity not to be wasted.

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1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t think this is particularly `because they`re French` let`s protect them, or `ring-fence` them as you call it, argument. And if say York or Newcastle had been the team that had fought their way into the Super League we would be having the same debate about them.

In particular I find that your nomination of those two, one city team from a relatively large metropolis, is almost a concession that you understand the arguments being made for Toulouse, it`s just that they are not in Britain that you find the problem.

And I dare say that those on here arguing for the French city team would be arguing with just as hard for the two you nominated if they had scrapped and fought their way into the Super League and for exactly same reasons.

This isn`t a France vs. England debate. It`s a `we might have a club here that has real big-club potential ` argument. It just so happens that Toulouse are in France, they come from a city of 1 million people, they don`t have a hostile relationship with their co-tenant union club and they have a Mayor who has said publicly he wants that city to be " the oval-ball capital of Europe ". That`s before we even get to having a ready made rival who has trodden the same path successfully.

None of us can be certain that Toulouse are going to be a success, but you weigh up the pro`s and con`s and you place your bet, we may well be wrong, but that`s life, but you have to do something.

To suggest I have a problem with a team because they’re French is crass, wide of the mark and incorrect. 

I have an issue with ring fencing some clubs not all and find the idea of doing so, whilst also having promotion and relegation, a poor idea. 

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18 hours ago, Eddie said:

From a small sample of people I know, yes. 

Small sample... The basis for many an assertion.  The small group I spoke with said they'd prefer to see Huyton; I don't beliere this to be true either.

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3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t think this is particularly `because they`re French` let`s protect them, or `ring-fence` them as you call it, argument. And if say York or Newcastle had been the team that had fought their way into the Super League we would be having the same debate about them.

In particular I find that your nomination of those two, one city team from a relatively large metropolis, is almost a concession that you understand the arguments being made for Toulouse, it`s just that they are not in Britain that you find the problem.

And I dare say that those on here arguing for the French city team would be arguing with just as hard for the two you nominated if they had scrapped and fought their way into the Super League and for exactly same reasons.

This isn`t a France vs. England debate. It`s a `we might have a club here that has real big-club potential ` argument. It just so happens that Toulouse are in France, they come from a city of 1 million people, they don`t have a hostile relationship with their co-tenant union club and they have a Mayor who has said publicly he wants that city to be " the oval-ball capital of Europe ". That`s before we even get to having a ready made rival who has trodden the same path successfully.

None of us can be certain that Toulouse are going to be a success, but you weigh up the pro`s and con`s and you place your bet, we may well be wrong, but that`s life, but you have to do something.

RL in a nut shell. At first I thought it might be anti-French but it is not, it's just a game that is pretty insecure and places self preservation against progress. The reason for this is money. The pot is shrinking and everyone is fighting for the diminishing pot rather than thinking how the pot could grow. 

L1 funding is an example of that.

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