379 replies to this topic

[Trojan]

The fact that they went bust in the 'golden era' of RL (when everyone was mates and cared about the game first and foremost ) in 1963 was the point.

Yes they went bust in the era when everyone was mates. That's why when they revived the club all the other clubs helped them in any way they could - players, money etc.

[Terry Mullaney]

So, the SL clubs, with the Sky millions, which have gone belly up are, according to previous posts, London, Paris & Crusaders. But let's not forget, Sheffield and Gateshead. Do I see a common denominator? Being a little too adventurous with the dream of expansion perhaps?

And, of course, let's also not forget the scandalous amount of money that the sham mergers of the latter two clubs mentioned above cost the game, simply in order to get Hull and Huddersfield back to the big time.

And people wonder why we fans of Championship clubs, who can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, remain bitter against the system. Before you answer just take time out to put yourselves in our position. I support a club which competed with the best and won all of the major honours the sport had to offer, pre Super League.

Feathersone Rovers is a club which, from an outside perspective, is magnificently run in all aspects but yet the reality is, it has little or no chance of progression to a higher level. It's just not right.

Trojan is right, the sport at our level is losing fans. 1600 last Thursday night for top v second. Has that rung any alarm bells at RFL HQ? Well, what do you think?

[Johnoco]

Yes they went bust in the era when everyone was mates. That's why when they revived the club all the other clubs helped them in any way they could - players, money etc.

Yeah, sure mate. It was all sweetness and light in the past.

[Johnoco]

Terry, how does 1600 compare with crowds in the 70's 80's or 90's? (I don't know, it's a genuine question)

[Terry Mullaney]

Terry, how does 1600 compare with crowds in the 70's 80's or 90's? (I don't know, it's a genuine question)

I don't know Jonocco is the simple answer because I've never been one to keep statistics. Maybe not too greater a difference in the 60's, 70's and 80's although I do know that in the crazy second division of only eight teams playing each other four times created by Gary Hetherington, we averaged something like 2600 in the 80's. More recently the 90's Rovers averages were 700 per game better than Wakefield's the year that they beat us in the Grand Final, so what could our's have been now given the finances available to employ dedicated marketing personnel? We were just 4 minutes away for victory in the 98 GF. Wakey have never been out of SL since that day despite what some would say about newly promoted teams being not able to hack it. Wakey are not on their own either.

But... the sport braggs about how much it has improved and moved on from those days. We constantly hear it from the Sky pundits and Nigel Wood is very selective about the kind of press releases he puts out. What evidence is there that such as Rovers or Barrow or Halifax and others couldn't do as well or better than Salford, Cas, Wakefield, Harlequins, Crusaders, Catalans. That's 40% or thereabouts of the current SL.

As I said in my previous posting, put yourselves in our position. What would you fans who are in the SL comfort zone be saying?

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 11 July 2010 - 01:21 AM.

[dallymessenger]

i dont think the real issue is the introduction of franchising

its more a fear that championship clubs will be locked out of SL.

franchising is bringing in stability to SL. clubs are given 3 years to prove their worth. fail and they get kicked out

it also forces championship clubs to concentrate on issues other than on field performance.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Yes they went bust in the era when everyone was mates. That's why when they revived the club all the other clubs helped them in any way they could - players, money etc.

tey were given s life line because it was in the best interest of the clubs and the game that they survived. It's called enlightened self interest and a good thing too.
That is why Bradford were helped and other clubs that went under pre SL weren't.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

So, the SL clubs, with the Sky millions, which have gone belly up are, according to previous posts, London, Paris & Crusaders. But let's not forget, Sheffield and Gateshead. Do I see a common denominator? Being a little too adventurous with the dream of expansion perhaps?

And, of course, let's also not forget the scandalous amount of money that the sham mergers of the latter two clubs mentioned above cost the game, simply in order to get Hull and Huddersfield back to the big time.

And people wonder why we fans of Championship clubs, who can't see any light at the end of the tunnel, remain bitter against the system. Before you answer just take time out to put yourselves in our position. I support a club which competed with the best and won all of the major honours the sport had to offer, pre Super League.

Feathersone Rovers is a club which, from an outside perspective, is magnificently run in all aspects but yet the reality is, it has little or no chance of progression to a higher level. It's just not right.

Trojan is right, the sport at our level is losing fans. 1600 last Thursday night for top v second. Has that rung any alarm bells at RFL HQ? Well, what do you think?

'we featherstone fans'? I'm sure plenty of people share your thoughts, but don't you think you are being a little arrogant here?
and please try to be less abrasive.

Featherstone Rovers had a tradition of being in a financial mess even in its glory years.
You are ight it is magnificently run these dys nd their future as a sporting organisation is assured.

The CEO of Rovers said on Thursday that there would hve been a much bigger crowd had there not been major problems on the motorway that night.


But anyway this discussion doesn't really centre arond the championhip and championship one clubs, but the handfull of clubs who see themselves as contenders for SL. Three of these have been in SL, one of them failed miserably the other two struggled and paid the finacial price and the other would face massive problems trying to be competitive should it be admitted-not promoted: SL is a different competition to the Championship. Two of these clubs in the days of automatic P and R were in and out of the top division year on year with debilitating results for the clubs and the game. The one club that had never been out of the top flight ruined itself finacially in staying there.

Like Bradford in the early 60s Hull and Huddersfield were highly symbolic clubs with massive potential and they survived to prosper. I think this is a good thing.

Sheffield eagles a few miles down the M1 is a 'liitle too ambitious with the dream of expansion', spoken like a ttrue parochialist. Gateshead struggle, but they still exist. Sheffield are a force to be reckoned with in the Championship. Without the 'sham mergers' the game would have been without four clubs. Maybe you are right Hull FC one of the oldest football clubs of any kind in the country in a city where Rugby League goes beyond passion and Huddersfield the place where the game was born and like Bradford a club of vital significance to the game, shoul hav been allowed to go under.

[Trojan]

Yeah, sure mate. It was all sweetness and light in the past.

But it happened nevertheless. Sweetness and light had nothing to do with it, a "we all hang together or else we'll all hang separately" attitude would be nearer the mark. This solidarity no longer exists between the various parts of Rugby League.

[Trojan]

The CEO of Rovers said on Thursday that there would hve been a much bigger crowd had there not been major problems on the motorway that night.

There are major problems on some part of the M62 between Wigan area and Yorkshire most nights. I should know I endured them for over twenty years. Playing a top of the table cross Pennine fixture on a work night, which is also live on TV and expecting a big crowd is like asking for the moon. Why was it played on a Thursday? To suit Mr Murdoch's schedule? My information is that Sky pay nothing for Championship fixtures. Is this still the case? And if it is what are Fev and Leigh doing moving one of their top fixtures to an inconvenient time for their supporters? Because it suits Sky?

[Trojan]

Maybe you are right Hull FC one of the oldest football clubs of any kind in the country in a city where Rugby League goes beyond passion and Huddersfield the place where the game was born and like Bradford a club of vital significance to the game, shoul hav been allowed to go under.

But Cas will be allowed to go under. I've no doubt that there was homophobic chanting at other grounds where Gareth Thomas has appeared too. And it should be stamped upon hard. "But hey let's not stamp on Leeds or Saints or Wigan, lets stamp on Cas. They're an irrelevence to the game's expansion plans aren't they?"

[Trojan]

franchising is bringing in stability to SL. clubs are given 3 years to prove their worth. fail and they get kicked out

As I replied to Parky, if you read the posts on here you'd see that this is clearly not the case. There is a great deal of unrest among supporters of Championship clubs. If you read other threads you'll also discern that there are also the seeds on unrest among fans of SuperLeague clubs. Fans percieve the management's (possibly the players too?) attitude that it doesn't matter if we don't finish in the top 8 - we'll still be here next season.
The whole thread was started by me because John Kear a SL coach said he'd come to the conclusion that franchising was bad for the game.

Edited by Trojan, 11 July 2010 - 09:09 AM.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

But it happened nevertheless. Sweetness and light had nothing to do with it, a "we all hang together or else we'll all hang separately" attitude would be nearer the mark. This solidarity no longer exists between the various parts of Rugby League.

many other clubs were allowed to disappear.
Bradfordweren't because of what they represented and because of their potential, same with Hull and Hudds a generation later.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

But Cas will be allowed to go under. I've no doubt that there was homophobic chanting at other grounds where Gareth Thomas has appeared too. And it should be stamped upon hard. "But hey let's not stamp on Leeds or Saints or Wigan, lets stamp on Cas. They're an irrelevence to the game's expansion plans aren't they?"

I have to diasagree with you regarding Thomas Geoff and the implications of the case.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

There are major problems on some part of the M62 between Wigan area and Yorkshire most nights. I should know I endured them for over twenty years. Playing a top of the table cross Pennine fixture on a work night, which is also live on TV and expecting a big crowd is like asking for the moon. Why was it played on a Thursday? To suit Mr Murdoch's schedule? My information is that Sky pay nothing for Championship fixtures. Is this still the case? And if it is what are Fev and Leigh doing moving one of their top fixtures to an inconvenient time for their supporters? Because it suits Sky?

The club seem happy about arrangements. The chair said in his programme article that he favours evening kick offs. I was merely passing on what the CEO had told me and that problems on the motorway had affected the attendance, which incidentally was up on the previous year's fixture, although only slightly.

[Trojan]

many other clubs were allowed to disappear.
Bradfordweren't because of what they represented and because of their potential, same with Hull and Hudds a generation later.

The only one I can think of from this period is Belle Vue Rangers, which IMO was a major mistake.
The rest have been expansion clubs, planted in an area without any preparation. I'm not much of a gardener but I know enough about it not to expect much without culitvation first.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

The only one I can think of from this period is Belle Vue Rangers, which IMO was a major mistake.
The rest have been expansion clubs, planted in an area without any preparation. I'm not much of a gardener but I know enough about it not to expect much without culitvation first.

st helens recs, liversedge, etc
so this 'mateship' wasn't universal then? It was limited to a certain group of clubs in a certain area.

Bradford weren't rescued by 'mateship', but by practical good sense and a good thing too.

[Trojan]

st helens recs, liversedge, etc
so this 'mateship' wasn't universal then? It was limited to a certain group of clubs in a certain area.

Bradford weren't rescued by 'mateship', but by practical good sense and a good thing too.

"mate" was Johnoco's word not mine. Solidarity was my word. I'm not old enough to remember Liversedge or St Helens Recs, or Tyledesley or Brighouse Rangers for that matter. However, I recall Wakey getting into serious trouble in the late sixities and a "Save Trinity" organisation. Presumably this also had help from the other clubs.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

"mate" was Johnoco's word not mine. Solidarity was my word. I'm not old enough to remember Liversedge or St Helens Recs, or Tyledesley or Brighouse Rangers for that matter. However, I recall Wakey getting into serious trouble in the late sixities and a "Save Trinity" organisation. Presumably this also had help from the other clubs.

ok solidarity then
why did it work for Bradford but not all the other clubs that went under if not enlightened self interest? Where was the solidarity with the other clubs that were allowed to go under?
The RFL he p clubs as well and have done historically, buting tattersfield from doncaster and renting it back to them cheaply in the 60s
Buying the lease of Cougar Park last year because Cougars couldn't afford the terms of the new lease.

[Trojan]

ok solidarity then
why did it work for Bradford but not all the other clubs that went under if not enlightened self interest? Where was the solidarity with the other clubs that were allowed to go under?
The RFL he p clubs as well and have done historically, buting tattersfield from doncaster and renting it back to them cheaply in the 60s
Buying the lease of Cougar Park last year because Cougars couldn't afford the terms of the new lease.

They'll have the Cougar Park lease as an asset though won't they?
I admit that I've always been against franchising, but I was part of a small minority until recently. As I said to Parky and Dally - read the posts on this thread and other threads. I'm not in a small minority any more. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - and it appears that to many fans it's proved a very indigestible pudding indeed.