85 replies to this topic

[Ullman]

I agree with Rob here, it was a certain double movement and as I said at the match was the turning point in the game, as it was the first time Wire went in front and from then they got their tails up and stepped up a gear.

I'm still not convinced, Gaz. It can't have been 'a certain double movement' if the referee had no hesitation in awarding the try. I didn't think Ian Smith was great last night, but I would expect he has a reasonable grasp of the laws of the game.

Or am I being naive?

[1976PMJwires]

I think you're being more than a bit harsh on Riley there Dave. He missed the tackle last night but it was a great step and finish from Briscoe but I can't see where you think this is becoming at all "regular" from him.

He's made a few mistakes this season but I think he has been no worse than any one else in the team.

I agree with Dave T

Riley needs a kick up his ######..... I would have penny in b4 him or Rhys williams (the future)

Riley needs to learn his postion and how to tackle FFS.

[getdownmonkeyman]

What a fantastic showing from Fitzgibbon.

Is there a bigger pack on a field when O'Meley. Moa, Lauaki, Radford and Cuscack are together?

[GazCoops]

I'm still not convinced, Gaz. It can't have been 'a certain double movement' if the referee had no hesitation in awarding the try. I didn't think Ian Smith was great last night, but I would expect he has a reasonable grasp of the laws of the game.

Or am I being naive?

You would think so but someone who has a reasonable grasp of the rules of the game would notice the numourous forward passes, persistant offside and players not been square at the play of the ball half the time.

Ian Smith was poor all night for both teams and missed loads, im not suprised he missed the double movement.

[Dave T]

I think you're being more than a bit harsh on Riley there Dave. He missed the tackle last night but it was a great step and finish from Briscoe but I can't see where you think this is becoming at all "regular" from him.

He's made a few mistakes this season but I think he has been no worse than any one else in the team.

I have commented on this issue a few times over the past few months tbh, some of his defencsive work has been poor at best. I don't get to many games at the moment, but I always at least watch the tries back, and more and more tries are the result of an ineffective 1on1 tackle from him. The good work from Briscoe was after the miss, if Riley is going to shoot out of the line and hit his opposite number, then it needs to be a proper hit - it wasn't and it gave Briscoe half a chance which is all he needed!

Riley has missed 25 tackles compared to Hicks' 9.

[Wilderspoolmemories]

I have commented on this issue a few times over the past few months tbh, some of his defencsive work has been poor at best. I don't get to many games at the moment, but I always at least watch the tries back, and more and more tries are the result of an ineffective 1on1 tackle from him. The good work from Briscoe was after the miss, if Riley is going to shoot out of the line and hit his opposite number, then it needs to be a proper hit - it wasn't and it gave Briscoe half a chance which is all he needed!

Riley has missed 25 tackles compared to Hicks' 9.

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

[Ullman]

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

That's a bit harsh. I'm sure Dave can stick up for himself, but he's one of the fairest minded individuals on this forum.

[Just Browny]

Riley is a very good player in a position that, these days, is as difficult as any on the field. While he does make the odd mistake, I'd be pleased to learn which winger doesn't, and his speed is an invaluable asset. Riley made one mistake that cost a try on Friday, and scored two of absolute quality due to his speed and positioning.

Really enjoyed Friday's game, thought Hull really gave a good account of themselves with limited manpower (for about the fifth season in a row at this time of year - I'd love to know what conditioning work they do ). Even without Briers, we brought plenty of class to the table and it was a perfect workout the week before Wembley.

Edited by Just Browny, 22 August 2010 - 03:22 PM.

[Dave T]

You obviously don't appreciate great attacking skill from opposition players.

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

[Dave T]

Riley is a very good player in a position that, these days, is as difficult as any on the field. While he does make the odd mistake, I'd be pleased to learn which winger doesn't, and his speed is an invaluable asset. Riley made one mistake that cost a try on Friday, and scored two of absolute quality due to his speed and positioning.

Really enjoyed Friday's game, thought Hull really gave a good account of themselves with limited manpower (for about the fifth season in a row at this time of year - I'd love to know what conditioning work they do ). Even without Briers, we brought plenty of class to the table and it was a perfect workout the week before Wembley.

JB, I'm sure you know my posts well enough by now to know that I do not criticise any players lightly, especially players of my team (local ones at that!).

I was pleased that he made amends with the two tries, and I like his kick return speed, so I am not against Riley, I am just worried that he is missing more and more one-on-one tackles on a more regular basis now.

I made this judgement before looking at the stats which comprehensively backed up my point.

[getdownmonkeyman]

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

I see where you are coming from. Riley coming out was the right thing to do, unfortunately, his execution was way off, Briscoe taking full advantage of the situation. The sum total is; if you are coming out to nail someone on-on-one, your execution has to be perfect.

[Just Browny]

JB, I'm sure you know my posts well enough by now to know that I do not criticise any players lightly, especially players of my team (local ones at that!).

I was pleased that he made amends with the two tries, and I like his kick return speed, so I am not against Riley, I am just worried that he is missing more and more one-on-one tackles on a more regular basis now.

I made this judgement before looking at the stats which comprehensively backed up my point.

I wasn't actually having a go at anyone (strange as it seems on an internet forum), was just making a general point. Riley has certainly made a few errors this season in defence, but I think that's because he's been concentrating on improving his finishing. All in all we've had a net positive from that, I think.

[Dave T]

I wasn't actually having a go at anyone (strange as it seems on an internet forum), was just making a general point. Riley has certainly made a few errors this season in defence, but I think that's because he's been concentrating on improving his finishing. All in all we've had a net positive from that, I think.

Don't worry I didn't think you were having a go, just adding some context around my comments.

Your final summary is a very fair comment tbh. With the ball I have no issues, I just worry whenever teams target him, and I just hope it doesn't cost us in a big game (next Saturday!!!)

[Wilderspoolmemories]

So Riley did everything right then?

My post wasn't about Briscoe, but if you think that try was unstoppable, then you are clueless. Briscoe pretty much caught that ball stood still, and should have bene put on his ######. What he did with the ball was very impressive, but if you think Riley did nothing wrong there, then it's not really worth continuing the debate.

So I "clearly do not understand the salary cap" and now I am "clueless." I may as well give up on my 35 years as a wires fan then,and go and watch basketball or something. There's no point continuing to watch a sport I so obviously(in your opinion)know so little about!!!!!!!!!

You admit that what Briscoe did was impressive,after saying he should have been put on his backside,so I rather think you contradict yourself there a little! To take the ball in that situation at speed and score would have been impressive,so to take the ball more or less standing still and still score is even more impressive,I think Tom Briscoe deserves some credit for his skill rather than people saying he only scored because riley pooped up,which is what you are suggesting. If you think there was no skill on show from Briscoe there,then it is not really worth continuing the debate.

[FullFat]

I think the try demonstrated that Briscoe has great awareness and a great step, Riley was just a fraction of a second too late and Briscoe took advantage. That said stats do not show the whole story, how many one on ones has Riley missed when abandoned by the inside defence, or when chasing across the whole length of the pitch to try and make the tackle. This has happened to him and his effort in tracking back against Pat Richards in the Wigan game to keep him out wide in my opinion won us that game.

DaveT I know your not one to criticise too often but as you said, you've not been to too many games lately and I have and whilst Riley has made mistakes plenty of other players have too and I still dispute that it's becoming more regular. Statistics on their own don't tell the whole story otherwise Phil Clarke would be the font of all knowledge RL related! Riley had a wobbly patch earlier in the season but I'd have him in the team every week. I think he will continue to improve just as the whole team will!

[1976PMJwires]

I think the try demonstrated that Briscoe has great awareness and a great step, Riley was just a fraction of a second too late and Briscoe took advantage. That said stats do not show the whole story, how many one on ones has Riley missed when abandoned by the inside defence, or when chasing across the whole length of the pitch to try and make the tackle. This has happened to him and his effort in tracking back against Pat Richards in the Wigan game to keep him out wide in my opinion won us that game.

DaveT I know your not one to criticise too often but as you said, you've not been to too many games lately and I have and whilst Riley has made mistakes plenty of other players have too and I still dispute that it's becoming more regular. Statistics on their own don't tell the whole story otherwise Phil Clarke would be the font of all knowledge RL related! Riley had a wobbly patch earlier in the season but I'd have him in the team every week. I think he will continue to improve just as the whole team will!

Riley can't tackle (very well) him and mathers have argued on many occasions, often going missing on his wing.

His attempted tackle on briscoe was lazy, look were his arm was, i think he was actually going for the interception.

He isn't even a great finisher, just been on the end of good moves. How many times has he dropped chances over the season.

DaveT may not have been to many matches, but i have, and riley isn't a "Good" winger, he is "average" (like all english wingers)

Also, to add to the arguement, he wont even be in the first team next year.

Hodgson, King, Atkins, Brdige, Hicks.......... Riley as the spare player.

[FullFat]

Riley can't tackle (very well) him and mathers have argued on many occasions, often going missing on his wing.

His attempted tackle on briscoe was lazy, look were his arm was, i think he was actually going for the interception.

He isn't even a great finisher, just been on the end of good moves. How many times has he dropped chances over the season.

DaveT may not have been to many matches, but i have, and riley isn't a "Good" winger, he is "average" (like all english wingers)

Also, to add to the arguement, he wont even be in the first team next year.

Hodgson, King, Atkins, Brdige, Hicks.......... Riley as the spare player.

Riley isn't a poor tackler at all. Sometimes his positioning means that he isn't in the best place to make that tackle but poor he isn't. His positioning will improve with experience and coaching, he is at the start of his career and will definately improve.

The tackle (or attempt) in question is an example of that inexperience in positioning.

If he's not a good finisher then he'll do for me. The number of tries scored shows he is doing his job in that department. All of the backs have dropped chances this year but Riley has taken the vast majority of his.

He may be average as you say but he has the right attitude and is showing plenty of improvement and only time will tell whether he is in or out of the team next year bu I have a feeling that he will get his chances and hopefully he will take them. If he isn't then whoever is will have to be taking their chances or they will find themselves on the sidelines and that is the beauty of (at last) having a strong squad.

It will be interesting to compare Riley at the end of his career with Hicks now to see how good average actually is!

[Dave T]

I think the try demonstrated that Briscoe has great awareness and a great step, Riley was just a fraction of a second too late and Briscoe took advantage. That said stats do not show the whole story, how many one on ones has Riley missed when abandoned by the inside defence, or when chasing across the whole length of the pitch to try and make the tackle. This has happened to him and his effort in tracking back against Pat Richards in the Wigan game to keep him out wide in my opinion won us that game.

DaveT I know your not one to criticise too often but as you said, you've not been to too many games lately and I have and whilst Riley has made mistakes plenty of other players have too and I still dispute that it's becoming more regular. Statistics on their own don't tell the whole story otherwise Phil Clarke would be the font of all knowledge RL related! Riley had a wobbly patch earlier in the season but I'd have him in the team every week. I think he will continue to improve just as the whole team will!

You won't get me disagreeing with your judgement on Briscoe. I would love to see him at Warrington. Your missed tackles point is a valid one, but the fact is that he is still missing those tackles. There have ben a fair few instances where he has been caught out of position and simply stuck his hand up as the opposition go over him. Also, fair comment on the chase back for Richards, it was an excellent effort. Riley has improved out of sight this year, and is a valuable player, but some of the defensive work IMHO has been poor recently, and is starting to cost us a fair few points. My posts are simply about this area, not his all round play.

In terms of not going to games lately, I have been to a fair few this year, and luckily we have been on Sky a lot. I have seen 19 of our games this year.

I also acknowledge that stats don't tell the whole story, but his tackle completion ratio is appalling. It sits at 80%, which is worse than most of his rivals, I only found Peter Fox to be lower than him, and he missed a shocking 37 tackles.

Edited by Dave T, 24 August 2010 - 07:02 PM.

[Dave T]

So I "clearly do not understand the salary cap" and now I am "clueless." I may as well give up on my 35 years as a wires fan then,and go and watch basketball or something. There's no point continuing to watch a sport I so obviously(in your opinion)know so little about!!!!!!!!!

You were wrong on the salary cap. You thought the 50% rule was still in, and it isn't, so not sure why you would bring that up again. I said if you believed that Riley did nothing wrong then you are 'clueless'. Fair enough if you disagreed about the severity of what he did, but he had a perfect chance to put Briscoe on his ###### and stop the move, and he didn't.

You admit that what Briscoe did was impressive,after saying he should have been put on his backside,so I rather think you contradict yourself there a little!

Not sure of your logic here. I said Briscoe's work with the ball ie. squeezing it into the corner of the field under extreme pressure, was very good.

To take the ball in that situation at speed and score would have been impressive,so to take the ball more or less standing still and still score is even more impressive,I think Tom Briscoe deserves some credit for his skill rather than people saying he only scored because riley pooped up,which is what you are suggesting. If you think there was no skill on show from Briscoe there,then it is not really worth continuing the debate.

Again, not sure why you are saying I am claiming there was no skill on show, it seems it is you contradicting yourself, as a couple of lines above you are saying that I compliment him!

My issue was that this move could have been stopped as Briscoe was catching the ball. Riley decided to come up fast. He didn;t complete the tackle. Once Briscoe was given a sniff, he took it brilliantly. The way he got the ball down in the corner was class.

Read back through the thread, you will see that I have given Briscoe credit all through it.

[1976PMJwires]

On the Riley issue, whether he's good enough or not...... it's down to opinions.

I like the lad, just makes too many mistakes (MHO)


Games Played 26
Tries scored 25
Assists 5
Errors 20
Miss tackles 26


He will not been 1st or 2nd choice winger on the team sheet next year.
and he will have to improve errors and miss tackles to dislodge hicks or king.