RP London

IMHO the issue is the bit in bold (though i understand what you mean on a personal level for Kata)... the rest is the way of things, if he qualifies as a Tongan then there isnt much you can do and if he is proud to wear the shirt etc.. but the bit in bold would stick in my throught..

actually to be fair i hadn't thought of that... simply being born in countries that entitle you to have a passport.. yeah that wouldnt be great... hell of a lot of planning though but for people who have been playing and have the "long list" of parents & grandparents playing at the top level its not beyond the realms to think its worth a try! I agree with your initial post and personally i would find it interesting (though not really relevant and not something we want to be too far out in the public domain) but whether they played age grade etc for other countries too..

Totally agree.

I'd add to that that agents will be very useful when you are looking at new clubs or improving your carrier as they have contacts and knowledge of plans at clubs that the players just wont have... then you end up contracted in with an Agent and I bet that isnt easy to get out of... also means that even if you are good at negotiating your own contract you dont have the issues and fallings out that can happen when negotiating a contract and can just play whilst it is going on in the background which is good for player and club (until something like this happens).. Agents have their uses but they should be instructed by the client.. even if they know there is a better option surely their job is to inform their client so that they can make the best decisions with the best information possible.. then the agent acts upon that decision. Its a shame if this is not the case in this instance. Its basically the same as people using recruitment consultants when finding a job in the real world.. and they can do this too if their commission is higher with a different company I have seen a recruitment consultant tell someone the other job was not offered to them to force their hand to the company that would pay more! (i would say it was why i left but that was actually because I was asked to leave as i hated it and apparently it was obvious!)

Thats the very nature of the world today though. Its where they need the arbitrary rule (grandparents in this instance or residency) so that everyone is on an even footing.. thought over time this will also then cause the smaller nations issues as eventually those that moved to NZ or Aus (for example) will run out of relations to trace back and will have to play for NZ or Aus.. For me its not about where they were born etc as long as they qualify its the fact they can play for 2/3/4 senior nations and go back and forth that is the issue. looks a good squad though

Love the fact the commentator was talking about a game being a "lovely hors d'ouvre" just as he was taking the first bite... timing!

I do agree and see your point on the history but i think you could do it for next year by adding Toronto and Tolouse and keeping Widnes up (though they need to get their house in order).. but certainly if you were to say 1-2 years those 3-4 teams that you can see growing (london, resurgent Bradford, Growing York etc) are given that incentive to get sorted and be there to be added... IMHO we are in a good place which I think was helped by the 8s system where there are teams that can see a route, which is not closed again with 1 up 1 down and the limitations. I think if you were to give them that hope in the very near future they would be able to continue the trajectory and give us some strong teams to add.. 14-16 is the ideal size of the top league and once there you can work on building that strength below too (i would also go to 2 up 2 down though the 2nd position may involve some sort of play off). Just feel they are missing an opportunity and 1 up 1 down is too few but 2 up 2 down would be too many for a league of 12... they have left themselves yet again in a position where it is not ideal and only a small tweak would help it to benefit many more

I can understand them not going to 14 now but I would have liked to see an announcement that they would up it to 14 in 2020 or 2021 therefore giving the champ clubs that have worked hard to get themselves competitive on an off the field something to aim for.. at the moment they are back to pretty much a 13 team super league with 1 team sitting on the sidelines each year.

yes i totally agree with this... this is the way it should be.. I think we have 14 teams that can do it with a couple of others that are striving to get there and should be able to make p&r work for them... if it can go to 2 in the future then that should be because the standard of the champ has risen but only then. IMHO if they make the challenge cup rounds fit better into the system then the "every minute matters" can be heightened by middle of the table teams getting further in the cup..

I agree with your post but I think your solution is poor, even with the proviso that nothing is ever perfect. "Magic Weekend" is now "Magic Day".. how does that solve any problem? there is no issue with the weekend it is simply about whether this should be an extra fixture.. the quarter finals would be far too far in advance of the semis and final at that point too... why not the round of 16.. so 2 days of 4 fixtures and 16 teams involved so 16 sets of fans + neutrals?? if you want cross division, as many have said, then the divisions need to be equal, you cannot have it as you have with teams with such large differences playing each other and having p&R based on it. Personally if you want "creativity" etc then bring back the Yorkshire and Lancashire league trophies... split the 12 teams into "conferences".. play your conference twice and the other conference however many times is needed to make up the requisite number of games.. this can then change if you want to add a 3rd conference or want to expand the conferences. you dont need to play evenly with the play offs. Top 2 in conferences go to the play offs with a wildcard team that is 5th in the combined table (or best not to make it from their conference) plus the challenge cup winners (gives the challenge cup a bit of meaning too).. to make a 6 team play off... 3v6 4v5 loser out winner goes to play 1 and 2. at the bottom 1 up 1 down with conference below (who play for the yorkshire and lancashire cup)... this can lead to an origin style cross conference all star match too.... again not perfect but for me its better, also allows for expansion in different ways without too much hassle.. can always add a "non heartland conference" down the line etc.

Sorry, I do understand.. what was meaning was something like bigger prize money is very much a club thing, I dont see that making huge differences.. giving it an added qualification place etc I think may help.. i have (maybe on another thread) mentioned about having the winner getting a play off place (5th if its top 4 or 6th if its top 5 and 14 team league etc).. may not make a difference and may actually cheapen it.. not sure any of that though needs to be done in conjunction with other things too, its not a one bullet solution for sure.

Thing is its not about the players or the clubs from what I can tell.. they want to win it, its the challenge cup after all... but it has to be something the supporters want to win or see won.

Wont be an England mug i take it..

Read the rest of the thread and other threads on this discussion forum and you'll see plenty of ideas for us... If we actually knew we would either be in the RFL marketing department or the problem would be solved.. you had an idea, people argued against it thats the way it is dont worry about it, but its not a case of "at least I'm coming up with ideas" we all do, and they get argued against or people say "that would be interesting to see" but they never will because this isnt an RFL think tank. until you do some PROPER market research into it its just bluster on a forum of why you personally are not going/interested or what you hear other people may say.. My main suggestion.. what makes it special or what is not making it as special as it used to be? if the RFL could find that out they can then fix that issue. The date may be one reason, but I would suggest no date is perfect. The fact we now have a grand final which is a huge occasion may be an issue. The fact it just doesnt seem as important (like the FA Cup is not seen as as important as it used to be) may be something to fix.. Its a discussion forum and people discuss things, but no one on this forum is going to actually come out with the cast iron solution. As can be seen on this thread, what one person thinks is the problem can so easily be argued against because it isnt really the issue.. If we knew what the issue was we wouldnt be having discussion and the rfl would just fix it.

I'm not really sure the facts hold that argument up.. a few limited teams have dominated the cup... a few others have managed to make to the final but its not a huge amount.. when you look at the teams that did get through who are "not of the norm" today they were team that were doing well in general that year anyway.. its always the better teams that do well. There is no seeding in the draw, when the teams come in it is an open draw and luck still plays a part (as we have seen with the likes of tolouse getting to the later stages and a champ Hull KR etc) but the teams just come in at different stages which in this day and age is fair.. if the super league clubs came in at round 1 it would be farcical and unworkable as a concept and as much as a team may get knocked out early against each other there would be many more embarassing score lines.. Club Wins Last win Runners-up Last final lost Total finals 1 Wigan 19 2013 13 2017 32 2 Leeds 13 2015 12 2012 25 3 St. Helens 12 2008 9 2002 21 4 Warrington 8 2012 9 2016 17 5 Widnes 7 1984 6 1993 13 6 Huddersfield 6 1953 4 2009 10 7 Hull 5 2017 12 2013 17 8 Halifax 5 1987 7 1988 12 9 Bradford 5 2003 6 2001 11 10 Wakefield 5 1963 3 1979 8 11 Castleford 4 1986 2 2014 6 12 Oldham 3 1927 4 1926 7 13 Featherstone Rovers 3 1983 2 1974 5 14 Swinton 3 1928 2 1932 5 15 Batley 3 1901 0 – 3 16 Hunslet § 2 1934 2 1965 4 17 Dewsbury 2 1943 1 1929 3 18 Leigh 2 1971 0 – 2 19 Broughton Rangers 2 1911 0 – 2 20 Hull Kingston Rovers 1 1980 6 2015 7 21 Salford 1 1938 6 1969 7 22 Barrow 1 1955 4 1967 5 23 Workington Town 1 1952 2 1958 3 24 Bradford F.C. § 1 1906 1 1898 2 25 Sheffield Eagles 1 1998 0 – 1 26 Rochdale Hornets 1 1922 0 – 1 27 Catalans Dragons 0 – 1 2007 1 28 London Broncos 0 – 1 1999 1 29 Keighley 0 – 1 1937 1 30 York § 0 – 1 1931 1