Bell Vue Bees.

[MancRL]

Manchester Rangers behind new Bell Vue Bees junior ARLFC.

http://www.manchesterrangers.co.uk/belle-vue-launch-2016/

[DoubleD]

Slightly confused......................why don't the juniors just come under Manchester Rangers rather than setting up a separate club?

[Guest]

Manchester Rangers behind new Bell Vue Bees junior ARLFC.

http://www.manchesterrangers.co.uk/belle-vue-launch-2016/

Would I be right in thinking that the main stadium in the Bellevue village is for speedway and that if Manchester rangers were to progress into a semi-pro outfit they would be looking to be based at the etihad complex?

[Guest]

Slightly confused......................why don't the juniors just come under Manchester Rangers rather than setting up a separate club?

Not 100% sure but this looks like it could be a separate club from rangers in another part of Manchester.

[MancRL]

Would I be right in thinking that the main stadium in the Bellevue village is for speedway and that if Manchester rangers were to progress into a semi-pro outfit they would be looking to be based at the etihad complex?

Manchester Rangers RLFC are already based at the regional arena at the Etihad campus. Bell Vue is for amateur Rugby League, schools and the new Bell Vue Bees junior RL club.

[Guest]

Manchester Rangers RLFC are already based at the regional arena at the Etihad campus. Bell Vue is for amateur Rugby League, schools and the new Bell Vue Bees junior RL club.

Cool, thanks. This is definitely the way to spread RL in Manchester or any other city/town in the UK. First introduce the game at both primary and high school level exposing the kids to RL then establish a junior/amateur club fir those kids that get the RL bug and want to develop it further in a structured environment.

[MancRL]

Slightly confused......................why don't the juniors just come under Manchester Rangers rather than setting up a separate club?

I think it's part of an ongoing strategy to spread Rugby League through out the City of Manchester. Firstly: they've been getting schools from East Manchester playing and introducing it into East Manchester schools; this is ongoing. I think they've got about 4 high schools and a couple of primary schools playing in East Manchester at the moment. The next step is a junior club, which is Bell Vue Bees the one that's been set up. Hopefully the East Manchester schools will feed into this club. And hopefully they'll field teams at all age levels.

I don't speak for Rangers, but in the future they may decide to use the same, successful strategy they've employed in East Manchester and do it in North Manchester, which has no Rugby League presence at all. If they decide in the future to go into schools in North Manchester, then a club like the Bell Vue Bees would need to be set-up in the North of the city as well.

Rangers have got an 'A' team as well as the first team. This club is growing and spreading Rugby League at an exponential rate in the City of Manchester.

[MancRL]

Cool, thanks. This is definitely the way to spread RL in Manchester or any other city/town in the UK. First introduce the game at both primary and high school level exposing the kids to RL then establish a junior/amateur club fir those kids that get the RL bug and want to develop it further in a structured environment.

True. They're laying solid foundations through schools, university and now an junior RL club.

[Guest]

I think it's part of an ongoing strategy to spread Rugby League through out the City of Manchester. Firstly: they've been getting schools from East Manchester playing and introducing it into East Manchester schools; this is ongoing. I think they've got about 4 high schools and a couple of primary schools playing in East Manchester at the moment. The next step is a junior club, which is Bell Vue Bees the one that's been set up. Hopefully the East Manchester schools will feed into this club. And hopefully they'll field teams at all age levels.

I don't speak for Rangers, but in the future they may decide to use the same, successful strategy they've employed in East Manchester and do it in North Manchester, which has no Rugby League presence at all. If they decide in the future to go into schools in North Manchester, then a club like the Bell Vue Bees would need to be set-up in the North of the city as well.

Rangers have got an 'A' team as well as the first team. This club is growing and spreading Rugby League at an exponential rate in the City of Manchester.

This. Belle vue bees are going to need some opposition so the sooner RL spreads to North Manchester using the same successful model used in East Manchester the better ;-)

[Guest]

True. They're laying solid foundations through schools, university and now an junior RL club.

I honestly think at this rate in which RL is being spread throughout Manchester I think the decision whether to turn pro or not will be made for them!!

If you have primary&secondary schools, universities&collegues and junior&amateurs all established and playing RL in Manchester the next logical step is to have a professional team at the top of this pyramid.

[MancRL]

I honestly think at this rate in which RL is being spread throughout Manchester I think the decision whether to turn pro or not will be made for them!!

If you have primary&secondary schools, universities&collegues and junior&amateurs all established and playing RL in Manchester the next logical step is to have a professional team at the top of this pyramid.

Yes, Manchester Rangers make no secret of their ambition to become Manchester's first pro Rugby League club since 1955. But they're going about it the right way, which is building-up a proper pyramid.

Regarding Belle Vue Bees arlfc. It won't be a problem finding Rugby League opposition in this area. Manchester is lucky in that it sits cheek by joul with many well established local heartlands Rugby League clubs.

I do hope Rangers or other clubs, maybe Rochdale, Swinton gain a presence in North Manchester schools before Rugby Union start their schools expansion programme and get in there first.

[JM2010]

Slightly confused......................why don't the juniors just come under Manchester Rangers rather than setting up a separate club?

I think if the club wants to spread the game and hopefully become a professional outfit the city needs to have many junior sides that aren't directly part of Manchester Rangers set up so they there is an amateur RL scene in Manchester and not just one side with a junior section

[mmp]

I honestly think at this rate in which RL is being spread throughout Manchester I think the decision whether to turn pro or not will be made for them!!

If you have primary&secondary schools, universities&collegues and junior&amateurs all established and playing RL in Manchester the next logical step is to have a professional team at the top of this pyramid.

 

 

Sorry - and as someone who's worked my backside off growing the game in this neck of woods - we are a few years off Manchester being 'the logical step' for pro-rugby. That's no offence to Rangers - they're doing the right things but the game in this part of the world has to do this right or it will fail.

 

A Pyramid, needs a base. 

 

In Greater Manchester there are 10 districts.

 

Wigan is a genuine heartland so no issues there, in Oldham and Rochdale are pro-clubs and an OK structure below (with Nat. Conf. level sides and a few other amateur clubs - but i'd argue, not enough). In Salford, it's grown a bit recently and facilities are better but it needs more - too few Salfordians end up pro (applies to Salford and Swinton).

 

In Bury (Broncos), Bolton (Wesrhoughton) are growing clubs with adults and juniors - Bolton also has Mets at open age. In Trafford there are a couple junior sides who are working their backside off and need more credit for what they do - its hard work!

 

In Manchester - we have Rangers and Mancunians - neither fielded juniors last year in formal leagues but I am hugely welcoming of Rangers efforts for 2016 and I hope Mancunians will field juniors too. Either way - we are talking about a small number of juniors a few years away from being old enough to play 'pro' even if good enough! 

 

We have NO clubs in Tameside and Stockport. 

 

My point is, the pyramid needs building from below....

 

...its OK people on forums saying 'next logical step' but the infrastructure below needs to be in place first and it isn't. In Leeds are 40 amateur club spreading talent - multiple age groups = a pipeline of players. In Greater Manchester, excluding Wigan, we probably have just about have 40 'sides' across age ranges and that includes Oldham/Rochdale.  That same area has Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale at pro level. 

 

We NEED a bigger base to grow from!

 

Rangers are a great example of the way to do things given the commitment to junior RL. Westhoughton need more credit given what they do in Bolton and the guys in Trafford definitely need a well done! 

 

Until we have a MORE junior sides, producing players over a period of years, Manchester (Greater Manchester) will not be a logical step for pro-RL in my view. I'm not anti-growth at all as this post hopefully shows...but we need players and we need a focus on kids rugby to get those players!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Sorry - and as someone who's worked my backside off growing the game in this neck of woods - we are a few years off Manchester being 'the logical step' for pro-rugby. That's no offence to Rangers - they're doing the right things but the game in this part of the world has to do this right or it will fail.

A Pyramid, needs a base.

In Greater Manchester there are 10 districts.

Wigan is a genuine heartland so no issues there, in Oldham and Rochdale are pro-clubs and an OK structure below (with Nat. Conf. level sides and a few other amateur clubs - but i'd argue, not enough). In Salford, it's grown a bit recently and facilities are better but it needs more - too few Salfordians end up pro (applies to Salford and Swinton).

In Bury (Broncos), Bolton (Wesrhoughton) are growing clubs with adults and juniors - Bolton also has Mets at open age. In Trafford there are a couple junior sides who are working their backside off and need more credit for what they do - its hard work!

In Manchester - we have Rangers and Mancunians - neither fielded juniors last year in formal leagues but I am hugely welcoming of Rangers efforts for 2016 and I hope Mancunians will field juniors too. Either way - we are talking about a small number of juniors a few years away from being old enough to play 'pro' even if good enough!

We have NO clubs in Tameside and Stockport.

My point is, the pyramid needs building from below....

...its OK people on forums saying 'next logical step' but the infrastructure below needs to be in place first and it isn't. In Leeds are 40 amateur club spreading talent - multiple age groups = a pipeline of players. In Greater Manchester, excluding Wigan, we probably have just about have 40 'sides' across age ranges and that includes Oldham/Rochdale. That same area has Salford, Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale at pro level.

We NEED a bigger base to grow from!

Rangers are a great example of the way to do things given the commitment to junior RL. Westhoughton need more credit given what they do in Bolton and the guys in Trafford definitely need a well done!

Until we have a MORE junior sides, producing players over a period of years, Manchester (Greater Manchester) will not be a logical step for pro-RL in my view. I'm not anti-growth at all as this post hopefully shows...but we need players and we need a focus on kids rugby to get those players!!!!!!!

That's me told then. Nobody's saying bring Manchester into the fold tomorrow but the growth of both Manchester rangers and the mancunians has been amazing in the few years that they've been in existence and if they continue to grow at this pace then I don't see in say 5-10 years time why a semi-pro team in Manchester couldn't be achievable. You wouldn't exactly equate the amateur RL scene on Tyneside with that of Leeds but they have a semi-pro side likewise with Coventry or even Sheffield and they were once in super league.

[MancRL]

That's me told then. Nobody's saying bring Manchester into the fold tomorrow but the growth of both Manchester rangers and the mancunians has been amazing in the few years that they've been in existence and if they continue to grow at this pace then I don't see in say 5-10 years time why a semi-pro team in Manchester couldn't be achievable. You wouldn't exactly equate the amateur RL scene on Tyneside with that of Leeds but they have a semi-pro side likewise with Coventry or even Sheffield and they were once in super league.

Don't listen to him. Manchester Rangers are set-up for pro Rugby League now. TODAY. They've got a Super League standard stadium, they're located slap-bang in the middle of the world class sporting Etihad campus with their own Metrolink stop 200 yards away.

In the near future over a billion pounds is going to be spent on casinos, hotels and other attractions on their doorstep. They've got an expert board backing them. They'll have a training facility at the soon to be opened Sport England Belle Vue sports village.

They're getting bigger gates than some semi pro League 1 clubs get while playing in NWML 4. So if the likes of Hemel, Gloucester, Skolors ect can be semi pro. Manchester Rangers have more than proved themselves. If anything they should be fast tracked into League1. The RFL should realise the potential of this club. And stop faffing around.

[Spidey]

Fast tracked to pro league? Not a chance there are enough established pro clubs within 10-20 miles of Manchester Rangers, there's just not the infrastructure beneath. You'd need at least 5-10 new amatuer clubs proving rugby at every age group beneath open age to get the pipeline of players otherwise you're just going after the same players that the other clubs are going after. Once that's all in place go for it. You need much more than a nice stadium to make a pro club

[MancRL]

Fast tracked to pro league? Not a chance there are enough established pro clubs within 10-20 miles of Manchester Rangers, there's just not

the infrastructure beneath. You'd

need at least 5-10 new amatuer clubs proving rugby at every age group

beneath open age to get the pipeline

of players otherwise you're just

going after the same players that the other clubs are going after.

Once that's all in place go for it.

You need much more than a nice stadium to make a pro club

If that were the case, Then why are loads of people banging on about

Toronto entering League1. And don't tell me League1 clubs like Hemel, Oxford, Skolors ect are supported by numerous amateur clubs. Because they're not.

Rangers are more than just a nice stadium. Which does actually help if you want to be a pro club. They tick all the boxes.( Transport, Locating,Potential to grow,marketing, website, sponsors) and they're only a NWML4 club. Yes they're putting in place

foundations and there is still a lot more to do. But why should they wait when they fulfill most of the criteria already. Unlike quite a few

other semi pro clubs.

It's just a matter of when they're admitted. Or why would they bother putting all this effort into a NWML4 club. They've obviously been given the nod. You just don't build a club up like this unless somewhere down the line you've been told something positive.

[Spidey]

If that were the case, Then why are loads of people banging on about

Toronto entering League1. And don't tell me League1 clubs like Hemel, Oxford, Skolors ect are supported by numerous amateur clubs. Because they're not.

Rangers are more than just a nice stadium. Which does actually help if you want to be a pro club. They tick all the boxes.( Transport, Locating,Potential to grow,marketing, website, sponsors) and they're only a NWML4 club. Yes they're putting in place

foundations and there is still a lot more to do. But why should they wait when they fulfill most of the criteria already. Unlike quite a few

other semi pro clubs.

It's just a matter of when they're admitted. Or why would they bother putting all this effort into a NWML4 club. They've obviously been given the nod. You just don't build a club up like this unless somewhere down the line you've been told something positive.

None of those clubs have any competition in the immediate vicinity. Rangers are surrounded by Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton & Salford. Any decent players will gravitate to the established clubs that why you'd need a new pool of players to sustain another pro club in Greater Manchester, that takes time walk before you run

[MancRL]

None of those clubs have any competition in the immediate vicinity. Rangers are surrounded by Rochdale, Oldham, Swinton & Salford.

Any decent players will gravitate to the established clubs that why you'd need a new pool of players to sustain another pro club in Greater

Manchester, that takes time walk before you run

You don't know that.... And it all depends what's on offer to those players.

Manchester Rangers can go down two roads. Firstly growing the game from grass roots level. Like you say, which I agree with And in the long term is the foundation for sustainability

. But also attracting new players too what would be their semi pro team. They would need these players just to survive the first few seasons in league1

[mmp]

That's me told then. Nobody's saying bring Manchester into the fold tomorrow but the growth of both Manchester rangers and the mancunians has been amazing in the few years that they've been in existence and if they continue to grow at this pace then I don't see in say 5-10 years time why a semi-pro team in Manchester couldn't be achievable. You wouldn't exactly equate the amateur RL scene on Tyneside with that of Leeds but they have a semi-pro side likewise with Coventry or even Sheffield and they were once in super league.

 

Sorry - not a case of being told. Was just pointing out we've 4 pro clubs already and barely any junior infrastructure. Players don't grow on trees. The difference in those other areas are that they are catchments with less competition. Greater Manchester is a 2.5m population (excl. Wigan) and 4 pro clubs.

 

I know guys at Rangers at a personal level and welcome what they do so it's not a criticism of them.  But my point is very simple - we need lots and lots more juniors playing RL to sustain 5 pro clubs in this catchment.

[The Parksider]

Sorry - and as someone who's worked my backside off growing the game in this neck of woods - we are a few years off Manchester being 'the logical step' for pro-rugby.

 

We NEED a bigger base to grow from! we need players and we need a focus on kids rugby to get those players!!!!!!!

 

The top super league clubs provide one heck of a focus for the growth of a substantial junior game. 

 

That's me told then. Nobody's saying bring Manchester into the fold tomorrow  You wouldn't exactly equate the amateur RL scene on Tyneside with that of Leeds but they have a semi-pro side 

 

A semi pro side that has struggled badly year on year

 

Don't listen to him. Manchester Rangers are set-up for pro Rugby League now. TODAY.

They're getting bigger gates than some semi pro League 1 clubs The RFL should realise the potential of this club. .

 

The entry of amateur clubs to the semi pro level has incurred massive costs that have stunted their potential for growth, where have Hemel gone since they turned semi-pro?

 

Fast tracked to pro league? Not a chance there are enough established pro clubs within 10-20 miles of Manchester 

 

some of whom like Swinton, Salford, Rochdale and Oldham nearly folded

 

don't tell me League1 clubs like Hemel, Oxford, Skolors ect are supported by numerous amateur clubs. Because they're not.

 

They are not and that's why when they hit semi pro and all the costs they stagnate unless there's a rich man and a vision for further growth.

 

it has been said that if you put the whole Manchester/Salford conurbation together you have some sort of a big enough base to support a pro club with the local players they need to be successful.

 

But the elephant in the room is Superleague Salford. There's very big resources there to support and grow a pyramid under them where well organised and enthusiastic ARL and all the players and fans that can create can feed into the top side like we see in Leeds and Wigan.

 

Why try to go into competition with them. A semi pro "Manchester" named club would only become another Bramley or Springfield Borough.

 

The idea is purely based on the name "Manchester" being something people will rally to. In reality the growth of the Manchester RL game will feed any decent player or fan towards Salford.

 

And that would be great for the game if that happens.

[bamfordsbeans]

Whilst I agree we really need to push the amateur and junior side,this does look like a good opportunity.With strong areas such as Wigan on their doorstep there should be presently enough talent available to compete with the likes of Oxford,Hemel etc.

As somebody said earlier there is the threat of money rich union to take advantage if we fail to promote these chances we get for genuine expansion.

[MancRL]

Whilst I agree we really need to push the amateur and junior side,this does look like a good opportunity.With strong areas such as Wigan on their doorstep there should be presently enough talent available to compete with the likes of Oxford,Hemel etc.As somebody said earlier there is the threat of money rich union to take advantage if we fail to promote these chances we get for genuine expansion.

This club is an exception. It's proving every step of the way they're not dreamers with no real idea of what they're doing. And others who are comparing them to other expansion clubs like Hemel, Skolors ect is misleading. You're right, Ranger could compete with these clubs.

Like I've pointed out they've got advantages that other expansion clubs down South haven't, the main one being their location to attract exspirenced players into the club in the future. Also their development programme is working. This new 'Belle Vue Bees club' is an example of this.

Yes their are other semi pro clubs in the near vicinity Oldham, Swinton and Rochdale. And these clubs should be taking a leaf out of Rangers book and start promoting RL at grass roots level in their own areas, because they could be doing a lot more to grow the game where they are. But just because those other clubs are close to Manchester doesn't mean the City of Manchester shouldn't aspire to have its own pro/semi-pro Rugby League club. This is stated on the clubs mission statement. "To become the first professional club in the city of Manchester since 1955"

[MancRL]

Sorry - not a case of being told. Was just pointing out we've 4 pro clubs already and barely any junior infrastructure. Players don't grow on trees. The difference in those other areas are that they are catchments with less competition. Greater Manchester is a 2.5m population (excl. Wigan) and 4 pro clubs.

 

I know guys at Rangers at a personal level and welcome what they do so it's not a criticism of them.  But my point is very simple - we need lots and lots more juniors playing RL to sustain 5 pro clubs in this catchment.

This isn't me on a forum saying wouldn't it be a good idea if Manchester had a pro/semi pro Rugby League club. This is Manchester Rangers stated aim. "To become the first professional Rugby League club in the city of Manchester since 1955" and they've set out a strategy for achieving their goal. Which appears to be working.

So when you say you know guys at "Rangers" have you told them that you believe their ambition to become a pro/semi-pro Rugby League club is doomed to failure?

[MancRL]

The top super league clubs provide one heck of a focus for the growth of a substantial junior game. 

 

 

A semi pro side that has struggled badly year on year

 

 

The entry of amateur clubs to the semi pro level has incurred massive costs that have stunted their potential for growth, where have Hemel gone since they turned semi-pro?

 

 

some of whom like Swinton, Salford, Rochdale and Oldham nearly folded

 

 

They are not and that's why when they hit semi pro and all the costs they stagnate unless there's a rich man and a vision for further growth.

 

it has been said that if you put the whole Manchester/Salford conurbation together you have some sort of a big enough base to support a pro club with the local players they need to be successful.

 

But the elephant in the room is Superleague Salford. There's very big resources there to support and grow a pyramid under them where well organised and

enthusiastic ARL and all the players and fans that can create can feed into the top side like we see in Leeds and Wigan.

 

Why try to go into competition with them. A semi pro "Manchester" named club would only become another Bramley or Springfield Borough.

 

The idea is purely based on the name "Manchester" being something people will rally to. In reality the growth of the Manchester RL game will feed any decent player or fan towards Salford.

 

And that would be great for the game if that happens.

I understand your point about Salford. But in their wisdom they decided to move miles out of the way to a stadium on the fringes, which is quite difficult to get to. They should have moved nearer to the city centre or remained in Weaste. This has left a vacuum and "Rangers" are planning to fill it. Their location to Manchester city centre and their excellent transport links will in time become one of "Rangers" main assets in attracting new supporters to the sport of Rugby League. Because they're not really out to get old RL fans in the main. The club is about getting new fans into RL.