Promotion and relegation or something completely different ?

[Red John]

So... Does nobody "win" the championship? I'm a bit confused what happens in the middle 8.

 

My understanding is that the winners of the Championship are the team that finishes top of that division at the end of the regular season. The subsequent middle 8 division of the end of season set up is a play-off to decide who competes in SL in the following season.

[Krytensmate]

What was the ' topic ' again ?

[scotchy]

So... Does nobody "win" the championship? I'm a bit confused what happens in the middle 8.

Who cares who wins the championship? The competition isn't to win the championship it's to finish top 3 in the super 8's and get promotion.

Nobody is going to be paying attention to who is top after 30 rounds, even those championship fans who would have us believe that they are all about the competition haven't been discussing who will win the championship, only who will be in the top 4. Isn't it great that there is meaning back in 'the championship'

[Krytensmate]

Who cares who wins the championship? The competition isn't to win the championship it's to finish top 3 in the super 8's and get promotion.

Nobody is going to be paying attention to who is top after 30 rounds, even those championship fans who would have us believe that they are all about the competition haven't been discussing who will win the championship, only who will be in the top 4. Isn't it great that there is meaning back in 'the championship'

Without doubt the biggest ' Down ' side to this new structure is that the bottom half [ or more ] will be that far off the pace of the top that the competition in itself will be uncompetitive , and the last 3 rd of the Championship season will be largely ignored , which is why for this to work it will need an increase in funding to all the Championship clubs at some point [ yes I know there isnt any more cash ]

 

In effect the ' Gap ' has just moved , not actually been closed

[Amber Avenger]

Who cares who wins the championship? The competition isn't to win the championship it's to finish top 3 in the super 8's and get promotion.

Nobody is going to be paying attention to who is top after 30 rounds, even those championship fans who would have us believe that they are all about the competition haven't been discussing who will win the championship, only who will be in the top 4. Isn't it great that there is meaning back in 'the championship'

 

That is certainly true, although I do find it odd that essentially it boils down to the fact that the Championship is a league that doesn't have a proper winner and it's just a glorified entrance exam for Super League.

 

I know we innovate in RL, so I'm not having a go, but I don't think the Championship will be a league in the same way that Super League is a league and Championship 1 is. I don't know yet if that's bad or good, but it certainly seems odd at the moment.

[Ackroman]

It's good to assume championship fans have a certain opinion on the new season. Although I think it would be better just to ignore them altogether.

[scotchy]

Without doubt the biggest ' Down ' side to this new structure is that the bottom half [ or more ] will be that far off the pace of the top that the competition in itself will be uncompetitive , and the last 3 rd of the Championship season will be largely ignored , which is why for this to work it will need an increase in funding to all the Championship clubs at some point [ yes I know there isnt any more cash ]

In effect the ' Gap ' has just moved , not actually been closed

best case scenario that gap moves to 5th/6th in the championship. Worst case scenario we get 2 big gaps. Between the big clubs in SL and everyone else and then on between 4th down min the championship. But that gap is there and always will be. Let's be honest you give Hunslet 1.8m and they will still struggle compete.

[scotchy]

It's good to assume championship fans have a certain opinion on the new season. Although I think it would be better just to ignore them altogether.

I'm not assuming an opinion. I'm attributing a noted behaviour.

[scotchy]

That is certainly true, although I do find it odd that essentially it boils down to the fact that the Championship is a league that doesn't have a proper winner and it's just a glorified entrance exam for Super League.

I know we innovate in RL, so I'm not having a go, but I don't think the Championship will be a league in the same way that Super League is a league and Championship 1 is. I don't know yet if that's bad or good, but it certainly seems odd at the moment.

nobody treats the championship with more disrespect than certain fans of certain championship clubs who treat it as nothing more than a competition to get out of. They treat the entire competition as having no worth other than a chance at promotion.

[tuutaisrambo]

That is certainly true, although I do find it odd that essentially it boils down to the fact that the Championship is a league that doesn't have a proper winner and it's just a glorified entrance exam for Super League.

 

I know we innovate in RL, so I'm not having a go, but I don't think the Championship will be a league in the same way that Super League is a league and Championship 1 is. I don't know yet if that's bad or good, but it certainly seems odd at the moment.

Well now Promotion is back however unlikely........clearly that is the goal and is the aim.........If anyone manages to go up they are clearly the winner.

 

After experiencing winning the league leaders shield and Grand final in the old format i know which i'd prefer.

[Krytensmate]

nobody treats the championship with more disrespect than certain fans of certain championship clubs who treat it as nothing more than a competition to get out of. They treat the entire competition as having no worth other than a chance at promotion.

Probably true , just as the Championship Football and league1,league2,conference and most likely every other lower tier of anysport that has access to a higher tier does , the Sports/competitions that dont are largely ignored , Just out of interest [ off the top of your head without looking on the internet } , who won the Bartercard/NZ RL competition last year ? , or the Queensland Cup , NSW Cup ?

[Krytensmate]

best case scenario that gap moves to 5th/6th in the championship. Worst case scenario we get 2 big gaps. Between the big clubs in SL and everyone else and then on between 4th down min the championship. But that gap is there and always will be. Let's be honest you give Hunslet 1.8m and they will still struggle compete.

Best case scenario is the structure is a success and further increases in central funding move any gap in the Championship down to the bottom joining the gap between the Championship and Championship 1 , giving us attainable steps all the way up the ladder for any club with ambition , and also workable steps down for those that struggle

[scotchy]

Probably true , just as the Championship Football and league1,league2,conference and most likely every other lower tier of anysport that has access to a higher tier does , the Sports/competitions that dont are largely ignored , Just out of interest [ off the top of your head without looking on the internet } , who won the Bartercard/NZ RL competition last year ? , or the Queensland Cup , NSW Cup ?

None of your examples would be a 2nd tier. They are just different comps. None would ever fit with P+R.

are you saying you would know who won last year's RU championship? Or the 2nd tier of the county cricket? Or the Scottish football league?

[scotchy]

Best case scenario is the structure is a success and further increases in central funding move any gap in the Championship down to the bottom joining the gap between the Championship and Championship 1 , giving us attainable steps all the way up the ladder for any club with ambition , and also workable steps down for those that struggle

the gap will still exist. You could take Leeds sky funding give it to Hunslet and Hunslet are still going to be miles away from Leeds.

We have a gap in SL where funding is equal. Even if funding was equal through out the whole of the leagues those gaps will still be there

[Krytensmate]

the gap will still exist. You could take Leeds sky funding give it to Hunslet and Hunslet are still going to be miles away from Leeds.

We have a gap in SL where funding is equal. Even if funding was equal through out the whole of the leagues those gaps will still be there

I havent suggested equal funding throughout the leagues , just funding to even out the steps between them

[Krytensmate]

None of your examples would be a 2nd tier. They are just different comps. None would ever fit with P+R.

are you saying you would know who won last year's RU championship? Or the 2nd tier of the county cricket? Or the Scottish football league?

True , they wouldnt , , and I admit , I dont know any of the ones you suggest , but I've no doubt the fans of those clubs that did get promoted are happier than if they hadnt , it just is the nature of the beast , where you already have more clubs than you can realistically fit in 1 top tier , those that arent in it , want to be

 

I'd be interested to know how much interest there is in the Queensland and NSW cups , as in attendances and sponsors , are these clubs just NRL reserves or stand alone clubs /

[scotchy]

I havent suggested equal funding throughout the leagues , just funding to even out the steps between them

and I'm taking it to its extreme example and saying even if every club were given the same funding there would still be large gaps throughout the leagues. We see it in a league with equal funding. The idea that funding will remove those gaps is misplaced.

Leeds turnover 10m sky funding it 1.8m. Where is the other 8.2m coming from?

Nigel Hudgell, running a very best case scenario promoted club talks of a 'glass ceiling' Hull kr hit. Where even as a club with 7 crowds, Sky SL funding and half a million pound in gifts per year, the top of SL is simply beyond their reach.

Just as Getting to the Level of Leeds and Wigan is beyond some clubs even with equal funding + a little, it is beyond some of the lower league clubs to get to the level of a Leigh or Bradford.

[Krytensmate]

and I'm taking it to its extreme example and saying even if every club were given the same funding there would still be large gaps throughout the leagues. We see it in a league with equal funding. The idea that funding will remove those gaps is misplaced.

Leeds turnover 10m sky funding it 1.8m. Where is the other 8.2m coming from?

Nigel Hudgell, running a very best case scenario promoted club talks of a 'glass ceiling' Hull kr hit. Where even as a club with 7 crowds, Sky SL funding and half a million pound in gifts per year, the top of SL is simply beyond their reach.

Just as Getting to the Level of Leeds and Wigan is beyond some clubs even with equal funding + a little, it is beyond some of the lower league clubs to get to the level of a Leigh or Bradford.

That still isnt a reason to not try though , otherwise all bar the top 5/6 might as well pack it in , i'll give Mr koucash a bell later on to let him know

[scotchy]

That still isnt a reason to not try though , otherwise all bar the top 5/6 might as well pack it in , i'll give Mr koucash a bell later on to let him know

Something not going to work is probably the best reason not to try.

 

Koukash can alter that because he has the money and is prepared to spend it doing so. If you don't have someone willing to spend that money it is virtually impossible to make a 'step' up, especially under P+R.

[Amber Avenger]

nobody treats the championship with more disrespect than certain fans of certain championship clubs who treat it as nothing more than a competition to get out of. They treat the entire competition as having no worth other than a chance at promotion.

If that's a dig a me then you've missed the point. My point is how can it ever be considered a proper "league" in the same way as SL and League one if the only prize on offer is promotion? You can't blame people for thinking that when the whole aim of the league has been drastically changed from - finish as high as you can to win the league to finish as high as you can to win the opportunity to get into SL

[Amber Avenger]

Well now Promotion is back however unlikely........clearly that is the goal and is the aim.........If anyone manages to go up they are clearly the winner

So if nobody goes up its a full season with no winner? Like I say, it's odd.

[scotchy]

If that's a dig a me then you've missed the point. My point is how can it ever be considered a proper "league" in the same way as SL and League one if the only prize on offer is promotion? You can't blame people for thinking that when the whole aim of the league has been drastically changed from - finish as high as you can to win the league to finish as high as you can to win the opportunity to get into SL

No no, not a dig at all. More agreement with your underlying argument that the point of the championships isn't to win them, but to get out of them, And that the people who often argue most in favour of a return to P+R for the good of the championship are also the ones who treat winning it with the least respect.

 

[Amber Avenger]

No no, not a dig at all. More agreement with your underlying argument that the point of the championships isn't to win them, but to get out of them, And that the people who often argue most in favour of a return to P+R for the good of the championship are also the ones who treat winning it with the least respect.

Ah - apologies. Misread the signs! Happy to be on the same page

[The Parksider]

More agreement with your underlying argument that the point of the championships isn't to win them, but to get out of them, And that the people who often argue most in favour of a return to P+R for the good of the championship are also the ones who treat winning it with the least respect.

 

 

IIRC Dewsbury didn't take up a superleague place they won, IIRC Batley were not bothered about going up albeit a fly by night wanted to buy them to take them into SL. I'd guess a number of clubs in the championship would not want to be promoted.

 

I don't think all 12 are clamouring for the play off spots to get promotion, maybe an extra decent crowd or two.

 

Also given Haven's troubles and situation and the Professionalisation of the top couple of clubs the championship is a tad unbalanced as a competition

[bobbruce]

So if nobody goes up its a full season with no winner? Like I say, it's odd.

I think red john answers it earlier. The winner is the top team after 23 rounds the middle 8 being a separate comp.