mini rugby opinions and possible fixtures

[Lokolad]

Hi all, the club I'm involved in have recently introduced a under 7s mini section that has had a positive response from people in the local area with and without a rugby league background. We decided not to enter the Yorkshire Junior League because:

 

1-the YJL never actually responded to our emails and calls (anyone else had this issue?) when asking if there was a merit style league for this age group where we would happily organise our own fixtures.

2-we weren't sure on the interest we'd get so felt entering a weekly league was a too bigger leap. 

3-our gut feeling was 5,6 & 7 year olds maybe shouldn't be playing full contact rugby league weekly even though we knew they'd be keen to......

 

Our training started and interest was good getting 8-12 regular children all enjoying positive, fun sessions. We approached a number of clubs about friendlies but have had mostly negative responses, some totally disagreeing with our decision to not enter a league and some seemingly treating us like the black plague due to 'not been registered' even though the section is registered with the RFL and rugby league cares just not to a league.

 

Without waffling on too much more I'd like peoples feedback on this please.......? What would you do? Our thinking was primary rugby league was all about enjoyment and positivity, I'm not sure entering a league for us would have produced that.

 

Also if you know of or are involved in a club looking for an odd fixture at this age group we'd love to hear from you.

[TheMancunianCandidate]

This is a really interesting post. I think our philosophies are very similar.

We at Mancunians started mini sessions, based on the primary rugby league principles last summer and they are very successful. We've had 25 or so kids at sessions, all having great time and vitally, playing rugby league and learning new skills.

Sadly, we too have had a negative experience with other clubs - they too cite that as our players don't have registration cards (with mug shots for 8 year olds??) they can't play us as we won't be covered on insurance and we've actually been trolled on social media by a few people involved in RL clubs abusing us for being the only club I the NW who plays under primary RL rules.

For balance, I should point out that there isn't much appetite at our end to join a league for various reasons, but yes, we have had a fairly negative experience so far.

But to answer your question, I'd do what YOU need to do to achieve YOUR goals, don't feel pressured to conform to others' norms. What we do is go to other similar clubs and have joint training sessions with them and join festivals around the NW. Maybe you could do similar?

[Bedford Roughyed]

I think lots of sports are having the same 'conflict' as to what to do with kids.

 

I think a lot of the evidence suggests that skills based games are better in the long run (in producing new talent), rather than competitive full side fixtures.  However, lots of coaches, parents and even players disagree. 

 

Football has had the same arguments.  Best practice in places like Spain show the way, yet most coaches want 11 a side league games.

 

Its an interesting subject for sure!

[Lokolad]

Fantastic replies, thank you.

In the last 2 days I've had 3 replies all quite strongly against playing us in a friendly due to 'not being registered' even though we are in fact to the RFL just not to a league. We as a club (and yourselves by the sounds of things) probably have the wellbeing of the children involved more in mind than the 'registered' clubs do.

 

I myself, as many do started playing at under 8s, full contact with a strong junior section. By the time we all got to open age a lot of the lads just couldn't play anymore after 10 years of putting their body on the line weekly, not only did the club at the time lose out but the game of Rugby League itself. The more we push our children at a young age the more the game itself loses out in my opinion.

[tim2]

The evidence is strong that skills based, non full contact primary league is the correct way to do it. However this doesn't sit well with people brought up in the traditional way who find it a bit "PC" and not tough enough.

 

Some may have a point in the fact that at some stage players have to learn to tackle, that it can hurt and best to do that younger than older - but unfortunately too many adults like to live their dreams through kids and enjoy seeing their team thrash another team 60-0 and be top of the league / winning cups etc. For me there's plenty of time for that later in life.

 

The reg cards issue is to some extent related - clubs and their officials have, over the years, abused the age group and player reg system to achieve the goal of winning stuff. This makes everyone paranoid. If you stop worrying about winning and focus on the kids then you simply don't put an older kid in with younger ones. You don't even consider doing it.

[mmp]

Fantastic replies, thank you.

In the last 2 days I've had 3 replies all quite strongly against playing us in a friendly due to 'not being registered' even though we are in fact to the RFL just not to a league. We as a club (and yourselves by the sounds of things) probably have the wellbeing of the children involved more in mind than the 'registered' clubs do.

 

I myself, as many do started playing at under 8s, full contact with a strong junior section. By the time we all got to open age a lot of the lads just couldn't play anymore after 10 years of putting their body on the line weekly, not only did the club at the time lose out but the game of Rugby League itself. The more we push our children at a young age the more the game itself loses out in my opinion.

Absolutely get your principle but you may missing be an important point.

Society is full of litigation and it is exceptionally important that the sport (and amateur clubs) manage 'risk'. If in a worst case scenario a youngster gets seriously hurt there is a possibility of a parent trying to hold the club or even an individual volunteer liable for not having taken adequate precautions - your job as an administrator if this ever happens is to manage that risk and PROVE precautions are in place.

From what you've said you've not registered the players and hence - how can you show your managing liability? You could be taking a kid off the street who is too young, much older, etc. etc. and exposing them without any checks. And how can another club know you are doing the basic level of checks given that if they say OK to play you they are taking on some risk?

In my view we need far more informal opportunities to get people playing (merit leagues., semi contact etc.) but you still need the necessary protections.

My suggestion is ask the league if you can register your players on the basis you are looking for some informal friendly matches or joint training sessions - if the league and opponents still oppose what your trying to do then I'd disagree with them - but until your players are registered any side is in a Catch-22 scenario even if they are really really keen to help.

If your issue is you want to play but not register players then sorry - I agree with the other clubs for not playing against you...they're just protecting themselves (and volunteers) from being caught out.

[Spidey]

Although games are arranged formally by the league at that age. They are not "competitive" no leagues are recorded until u13s and the first competitive cup is u12. Teams are grouped by ability to ensure a level playing field. Which is reviewed on an ongoing basis

There are merits for both versions of the game. Neither should be stifled by the other. But the importance of player registration is key. We can't be having older kids turning up and playing. It's there for protection that's the primary reason behind the cards

[TaxiEgg]

No one from mancunians as contacted me regarding their kids .

We are not a league we are an association and follow the non competitive ethos of primary rugby league the old mini and modified games .

So let's not cloud the issue the NWC has 53 clubs and over 220 teams and almost 4000 kids registered playing structured games with the ethos of coach to develop not to win.

Registration cards for children are mandatory in RL purely and simple to safeguard them .

No cards means no checks on ages etc so if people think that that is the way to build and promote the game then in my opinion then they should not be working with children .

Liverpool Lions have approached us to allow them to play the odd game and participate in festivals to help promote the game in a predominantly football city our clubs will work with them like they always have registered insured and safe .

[Lokolad]

Again super replies and opinions, thank you.

To reply to a couple of points:

The word 'registered' seems to be getting thrown around a lot with different opinions to what your actually 'registering' to. Surely if your registered with the RFL (not a league), have DBS checks in place, have public liability/insurance and a welfare officer (to name a small number of required things we all know there's more) that is showing adequate precautions and that risk is managed? That said I do understand why the more traditional clubs would be more stand offish to 'unregistered' (to a league!) teams but at this age primary rugby is meant to promote 'playing the game', we're finding it very difficult to do this.......!

 

Totally agree on players having the cards to eradicate older ages putting younger off. Again surely you could have these cards without actually entering a league though? Comments from other clubs spoken to in the Yorkshire junior league seems to suggest this method isn't currently working-coaches wanting to play 13-13, full contact, promoting winning mentalities over participation, 'forgetting' certain players cards etc.

 

Regards asking the league, this has been done on numerous occasions by email and answer machine to no reply. Maybe the league is in a 'traditional mind-set' and feels our proposal doesn't require a response.....who knows! Maybe its just another slice of evidence that suggests our game is poorly run....

[TaxiEgg]

Contact me with your concerns and I will try my best to help you , again we do not have leagues at primary level all games are friendlies .

We accomodate clubs outside the normal fixtures as it gives them time to dip their toes in the water ,

Clubs generally want to play every week and enter our fixture program when they feel they are ready to do so .

nwc.chair@gmail.com

[Silvia Saint]

Interesting debate and something our club - Chester Gladiators - has experienced through the last 12 months.

 

We relaunched our Minis section last April and it grew week-on-week through the summer which led to us continuing with indoor sessions through the winter.

 

Parents (and more so players) were desperate for fixtures and we had some of the issues highlighted above around getting games organised so we took the plunge in February and decided to enter two age groups in NWC (U7s and U8s).

 

The NWC, its officials and the overwhelming majority of clubs have been fantastic and it's the best move we could have made. We now have 20 registered players at U8s and although numbers aren't quite as strong with our U7s, both teams have been making remarkable progress.

 

The players, parents and coaches are loving this season, although that doesn't mean we haven't had issues with one or two clubs or individuals whose competitive streak gets the better of them. 

 

What I would say is that those clubs are well known and other coaches/parents will give you a heads up so you can prepare or knock them on the head. And the NWC committee are a great help too.

 

We're now ready to get games going for U9s and U11s (I'll be contacting Mick this week to see what he can do for us) and we have thriving Tots (U4s) and Cubs (U6s) that will hopefully transfer into our future teams.

[Tin]

Lokoload,

i hope i can provide some reassurance and  encouragement for you. im sure youve had great moments and frustrating ones whilst youve been getting your sides together and when youve put a lot of time and work in you do feel those frustrations.

 

we (chester u8's) have started in earnest this season and experienced a lot of those, fortunately for us everything is working out very well now, we have children loving playing and training, parents helping out with coaching, supervision, laundry, car pooling, fee collection all helped by some really great match day experiences. 

 

we are obviously still learning a lot every week from the clubs we visit and teams we play but expect the core players we have will be playing together for years to come and enjoy playing these clubs regularly.

 

on the registrations it does seem like another obstacle in your way but it is actually quite straightforward. you can photo/scan documents to send electronically and last week i had a card returned on saturday that id emailed documents for on wednesday. it is also free.

 

with respect to reception/games we would love to give you a game and share some of our experiences and would be happy to do so on whatever basis would suit you - smaller sides if you have less players, pooled teams, quarters with training breaks, pause at pb, full set of 6 and progress to u8 rules if that suits you. we'll even make you a cake.

 

from the teams we've played this season i know some others would do the same. if you'd like to get in touch with me i can see if we have a slot or time in the summer maybe for a game. happy to share any of our experience on progress to getting a team together this season too if it helps

 

i'm sure mick could put you in touch with other suitable teams for a positive first match day experience.

 

cheers mate, stick at it. its so worthwhile, sundays are the highlight of mine and many others weeks now and the effort you put in you really cant put a value on the rewards from

Tin

[Lokolad]

It seems from the comments here the NWC junior league is a really well run, informative league. Unfortunately we're the wrong side of the Pennines to join! That said we would be very interested in a 'fixture' with the said clubs in coming summer months............more so if there's a cake involved!

The new under 7s section itself is going really well and growing week by week we just feel a little like 'black sheep' with our views of not wanting to enter a league but still having a need for the odd fixture ,this post has put my mind at ease with regards our opinions and hopefully keep the momentum going.

[TheMancunianCandidate]

Loko Lad. If you check your messages you'll see a message from me.

This is a very interesting topic. Best of luck with your ventures,

S