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7 minutes ago, MZH said:

He's right about Rowley not being a big draw for prospective signings, but I dont think its too much of an issue. Toronto as a concept is enough of a draw for players without needing a big name coach in charge.

Brierly was a very good signing at this stage in Toronto's development, but he isnt really a star of the game. He was a guy who really excelled at Championship level but was fairly mediocre when he made the step up to Super League. A few years down the line when you are looking at International standard players and guys with state of origin experience you need a coach who these guys will respect, and alot of them have probably never heard of him.

Agree with that to some extent. He hasn't proved himself at the highest level consistently but he is one hell of an exciting player with ball in hand.

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11 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

but I struggle to imagine many Super League or NRL players really excited about the idea of playing under a coach who has never coached at that level.

Yes but for Powell this has only recently become the case. And it's more the level they've had to play at than any influence the name of the coach might have. Next season more big name will come because Eric's building it!

I also think it's a bit odd to talk in this way because under him Leigh did very well and played some great rugby which plenty of coaches in SL can't say.


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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5 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Yes but for Powell this has only recently become the case. And it's more the level they've had to play at than any influence the name of the coach might have. Next season more big name will come because Eric's building it!

I also think it's a bit odd to talk in this way because under him Leigh did very well and played some great rugby which plenty of coaches in SL can't say.

We aren't discussing what Eric Perez is doing or not doing given I was replying to a comment about the impact Rowley is having. 

Yes, Leigh played some good rugby under him, against part-timers with worse squads than them. He's still a coach with 0 experience at the top level and that is not a selling point to top players. 

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13 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Brierley previously played under Rowley at Leigh and was struggling in his chosen position at Huddersfield so it wasn't a massive shock that he moved, I think Brierley has since said as much that him struggling in his chosen position was a big part of it. I doubt Toronto are offering much more than lower Super League clubs, but I think they can offer players to be a part of something different and exciting and that is a big selling point. I don't think Rowley is putting anyone off, but I struggle to imagine many Super League or NRL players really excited about the idea of playing under a coach who has never coached at that level.

Perhaps a bit of a be a star in Toronto vs. be mediocre at Huddersfield then.

Personally, I think that Toronto needs to up their performance to be competitive in the upper tiers. I recall having read/heard something about Toronto scoring on about 30% of their sets, which with their current level of competition being semi pro, should be a higher percentage (if the number is correct).

I look forward to Toronto having a real challenge, kind of to test our metal, as the expression goes. Will it happen in the Super 8s? I don't think so but if the TWP are promoted, I think they may be in for a bit of a shock going from a dominant position to a much more difficult set of games next season.

I think at the moment, players, fans, everyone are just enjoying the ride..

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Just now, wolfcastto said:

Perhaps a bit of a be a star in Toronto vs. be mediocre at Huddersfield then.

Personally, I think that Toronto needs to up their performance to be competitive in the upper tiers. I recall having read/heard something about Toronto scoring on about 30% of their sets, which with their current level of competition being semi pro, should be a higher percentage (if the number is correct).

I look forward to Toronto having a real challenge, kind of to test our metal, as the expression goes. Will it happen in the Super 8s? I don't think so but if the TWP are promoted, I think they may be in for a bit of a shock going from a dominant position to a much more difficult set of games next season.

I think at the moment, players, fans, everyone are just enjoying the ride..

I found the article I mentioned - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants From "When you left Huddersfield you said something like ‘Super League is not all it’s cracked up to be’" downwards

I think it's unrealistic to expect Toronto to score on many more sets than that. Sometimes the circumstances of the game dictate that you just complete your sets, or you'll knock on, or whatever. Paradoxically, if Toronto forced passes in the pursuit of scoring more tries, they would probably actually score less. 

I think Toronto will have one of the best squads in the Championship, but I also think this year of easy wins will have done them no favours. They'll have slacked off on their attention to detail (it's unavoidable) and possibly got into a couple of bad habits, but I think that'll subside after a few games at Championship level, particularly with a few good players coming in.

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16 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Agree with that to some extent. He hasn't proved himself at the highest level consistently but he is one hell of an exciting player with ball in hand.

I only know him at the TWP level at this moment and certainly agree with his performances here. Want to see the team tested and see how it goes in the future.


Wolfcast Toronto
https://twitter.com/wolfcastto

 

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2 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

We aren't discussing what Eric Perez is doing or not doing given I was replying to a comment about the impact Rowley is having. 

Yes, Leigh played some good rugby under him, against part-timers with worse squads than them. He's still a coach with 0 experience at the top level and that is not a selling point to top players. 

Well we are discussing anything and everything RL/TWP or I thought we were! And I don't entirely agree with your assessment and I also think there are other attractive notions about this for players and disincentives as well which will depend entirely on the individual players ambitions and motivations.:biggrin:

 

 


“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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2 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

I found the article I mentioned - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2017/jul/18/ryan-brierley-toronto-wolfpack-rugby-league-leigh-huddersfield-giants From "When you left Huddersfield you said something like ‘Super League is not all it’s cracked up to be’" downwards

I think it's unrealistic to expect Toronto to score on many more sets than that. Sometimes the circumstances of the game dictate that you just complete your sets, or you'll knock on, or whatever. Paradoxically, if Toronto forced passes in the pursuit of scoring more tries, they would probably actually score less. 

I think Toronto will have one of the best squads in the Championship, but I also think this year of easy wins will have done them no favours. They'll have slacked off on their attention to detail (it's unavoidable) and possibly got into a couple of bad habits, but I think that'll subside after a few games at Championship level, particularly with a few good players coming in.

I have no idea what a "good" ration of scoring actually is..  as we learn more, I am sure I'll understand better.

You can see it in Ryan still.. he kind of walks around in a dream state at the games (prior to start) I don't think he has yet come to terms with being a "celebrity" in Toronto. You also have to remember that they come to a stadium with anywhere from 5-7 thousand(ish) fans at the game, as compared to back in the UK, where I understand they get hundreds of fans in the stands. Must be a bit surreal for the players.

That is why I want them to play tougher teams.. how's the old saying.. you want to improve, complete against those better than you.


Wolfcast Toronto
https://twitter.com/wolfcastto

 

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5 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Well we are discussing anything and everything RL/TWP or I thought we were! And I don't entirely agree with your assessment and I also think there are other attractive notions about this for players and disincentives as well which will depend entirely on the individual players ambitions and motivations.:biggrin:

 

 

Players motivations belong to nobody but themselves..  I'm just happy to watch RL and have my fanboy moments. :)

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Just now, wolfcastto said:

Players motivations belong to nobody but themselves..  I'm just happy to watch RL and have my fanboy moments. :)

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Good attitude, really refreshing and something we need more of. to stop us being jaded when we have the Greatest Game!

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“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”    

 

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1 hour ago, wolfcastto said:

I have no idea what a "good" ration of scoring actually is..  as we learn more, I am sure I'll understand better.

With the Wolfpack you're witnessing a score fest every game. That's unusual. At the elite end of rugby league it's possible to only see a few tries per game because the teams are both highly skilled at defence. If you get two highly skilled attacking teams with bad defence more tries will be scored.

One stat relevant to rugby league is "completion rate". It is the percentage of times in possession that a team holds the ball for a full set of six tackles. Completion rates will generally be discussed during and after games. Commentators will say "They need to complete their sets" etc. During NRL games live scoring websites will list it as, for example, 12/16. That is 12 complete sets out of 16. A low completion rate can be caused by all the factors that can cause a team to lose possession such as knock ons, being dragged over sideline etc etc.

Here is an old article about completion rates in the NRL a few years ago. http://m.nrl.com/stats-insider-completion-ratings/tabid/10874/newsid/71567/default.aspx

Enjoy learning about the game.

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With scorelines like 60-4 this year, an exciting, basically score at will but how are they going to do it this time, show; making the Championship will hopefully teach another type of game.

The game with the 6-4 scoreline which ends up being the best game you've ever seen.

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2 hours ago, CanaBull said:

With scorelines like 60-4 this year, an exciting, basically score at will but how are they going to do it this time, show; making the Championship will hopefully teach another type of game.

The game with the 6-4 scoreline which ends up being the best game you've ever seen.

It is just like I commented in the podcast.. I'm getting sick of seeing blowout after blowout and am hoping for a closer game.. not just in score, but in gameplay..  as you say, it ends up being the best game you've ever seen. Couldn't agree more.

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On 7/24/2017 at 7:10 PM, wolfcastto said:

Just out of curiosity (as pretty new to rugby) but why do you think that Rowley won't be able to attract big names in the future?

Every time we have an interview with him, he always talks about not only getting the best player, but the best person as being more important. It worked for us to get Quinn and I think it may have a good amount of pull / draw for new players in the upcoming years.

I think he is trying to build the team the right way..  it's not going out for pints with the boys that builds the team, it's the incredible hard work that they put it that allows them to bond and then celebrate with pints with each other (and with the fans) :)

 

I just don't feel he has shown enough as a coach yet for players to look and say I'd love to play for him. Ultimately his coaching career has been a short one so far. He started getting successful once Derek Beaumont started pumping money into Leigh. Also I think his teams play in a grubby way. Leigh were terrible for it and a few times the ex Leigh lads have tried it on for Toronto. When something was really on the line in the qualifiers his tactics were found out straight away and Leigh were terrible when it mattered under him. Needs to expand his coaching capacity for me, takes the plaudits having squads backed with plenty of money. I also think the way he went about things at leigh showed a complete lack of class that a top class coach needs to have.

Like I say I love the Toronto project and Chad Bain who signed actually played for the amateur team i'm team manager of when he was in Bradford. Great lad and was chuffed for him. Hope it stays viable as more teams with more money in the game can only be a good thing

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5 minutes ago, thepimp007 said:

I just don't feel he has shown enough as a coach yet for players to look and say I'd love to play for him. Ultimately his coaching career has been a short one so far. He started getting successful once Derek Beaumont started pumping money into Leigh. Also I think his teams play in a grubby way. Leigh were terrible for it and a few times the ex Leigh lads have tried it on for Toronto. When something was really on the line in the qualifiers his tactics were found out straight away and Leigh were terrible when it mattered under him. Needs to expand his coaching capacity for me, takes the plaudits having squads backed with plenty of money. I also think the way he went about things at leigh showed a complete lack of class that a top class coach needs to have.

Like I say I love the Toronto project and Chad Bain who signed actually played for the amateur team i'm team manager of when he was in Bradford. Great lad and was chuffed for him. Hope it stays viable as more teams with more money in the game can only be a good thing

I will fully state that I am not at all aware of his history as a coach (TWP is my first rugby exposure at this level) and can only comment on what I have seen to this point.  Having listened to him at each post game press conference as well as a number of informal chats with him - seems nothing but a class act and perhaps, even with your commented experience / tactics , he has developed and matured (and will continue to do so) to a coach that will grow the team and sport in the future.. hopefully to the point of bigger players.  At this point, I only see it doing good to grow the sport and I'm happy to be experiencing it.

I think that sometimes people tend to forget that as much as players develop their skills, the coaches do as well... and yes, certainly doesn't hurt to have the funding.

So looking forward to getting to the UK and talking to people who actually use words like chuffed and plaudits... and being rugby fans as well certainly does not hurt..   ;)

In regards to grubby, what does that mean for the type of play? As in rule bending or bad sportsmanship? (sorry, just don't know what it means in the rugby world)

 

 

 


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1 hour ago, wolfcastto said:

I will fully state that I am not at all aware of his history as a coach (TWP is my first rugby exposure at this level) and can only comment on what I have seen to this point.  Having listened to him at each post game press conference as well as a number of informal chats with him - seems nothing but a class act and perhaps, even with your commented experience / tactics , he has developed and matured (and will continue to do so) to a coach that will grow the team and sport in the future.. hopefully to the point of bigger players.  At this point, I only see it doing good to grow the sport and I'm happy to be experiencing it.

I think that sometimes people tend to forget that as much as players develop their skills, the coaches do as well... and yes, certainly doesn't hurt to have the funding.

So looking forward to getting to the UK and talking to people who actually use words like chuffed and plaudits... and being rugby fans as well certainly does not hurt..   ;)

In regards to grubby, what does that mean for the type of play? As in rule bending or bad sportsmanship? (sorry, just don't know what it means in the rugby world)

 

 

 

From everything im seeing about the Wolfpack I think they are promoting the club and game in Canada fantastically. I don't see how much of that can be pointed at Rowley. I feel seeing Noble out and about and Foggarty pushing hard as the bigger influences. I just have doubts over his coaching ability. He has been given funds to get a squad that should be doing exactly what they are at the moment. For me it was the correct thing to do get the Canadian people interested by seeing them handing out hidings while they get they get used to the sport. Then as their knowledge grows they will appreciate the tighter contests (and hopefully the losses) that will come as they progress, hopefully for me right to Super League.

Yeah thats what grubby is. It has been a trait of Rowley coached sides, niggles in the tackles, pushing the boundries on the ground, it worked in the championship until they tried it against SL sides in the Qualifiers and got found out massively

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17 minutes ago, thepimp007 said:

From everything im seeing about the Wolfpack I think they are promoting the club and game in Canada fantastically. I don't see how much of that can be pointed at Rowley. I feel seeing Noble out and about and Foggarty pushing hard as the bigger influences. I just have doubts over his coaching ability. He has been given funds to get a squad that should be doing exactly what they are at the moment. For me it was the correct thing to do get the Canadian people interested by seeing them handing out hidings while they get they get used to the sport. Then as their knowledge grows they will appreciate the tighter contests (and hopefully the losses) that will come as they progress, hopefully for me right to Super League.

Yeah thats what grubby is. It has been a trait of Rowley coached sides, niggles in the tackles, pushing the boundries on the ground, it worked in the championship until they tried it against SL sides in the Qualifiers and got found out massively

I am not in complete agreement with you on the club and game promotion. I think in a sport crazy city the size of Toronto and the surrounding metro area (about 6 million people) it should not be difficult to attract a larger audience than what they currently draw. I am very curious to see what the attendance numbers will be like for the 4 home games of the super 8s, ESPECIALLY when one of those games could see them clinch promotion to the championship.

I feel that there have been some missed opportunities to not only grow the TWP but rugby league as a whole.  Both Coventry and Barrow were amazing examples of promoting both their teams as well as the league. TWP should be looking at Coventry (Alan Robinson) as they are where he was with them not too long ago and we could learn from what he is doing with Coventry.

There is no question that Canada and Toronto are nowhere near as familiar with rugby as the normally associated countries. Rowley has even commented after the initial games that the fans are cheering at inappropriate times, which is fair, as we certainly don't know the game, if I can generalize my fellow Toronto residents. For me, I started losing interest (just as a reference) as the games were consistently becoming blowouts..   "Ok, so I missed some pictures of TWP scoring a try, they'll score another in a few minutes.."  I'd much rather watch a more matched game than what has transpired with the season.

On the plus side, it did give me more of an opportunity to actually watch some of the later games from the stands with the fans, which is another aspect of rugby league that I love.

 

 

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