Jump to content
Total Rugby League Fans Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Man of Kent

Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, DavidM said:

If he’s coming out now and saying it’s about the WC I’d find that totally bizarre 

He says it just because it's lost two games 😅


Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Brian Carney compares the tin-eared Wayne Bennett to Gerald Ratner and turns his guns on Ralph Rimmer for presiding over a “farce”.

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/11857353/brian-carney-is-wayne-bennett-rugby-leagues-gerald-ratner

It's a poor analogy.

Ratner's business model was always to sell tat pretending to be jewellery. He made the mistake of saying it out loud.

Bennett was doing a good job selling a quality product to a growing customer base and then his idiot boss bought a load of tat off some old bloke in a pub and told him to suspend all the good work he was doing and shift the tat first.

As for Brian Carney, he should take responsibility for providing an Irish fig leaf to this "Great Britain" nonsense. He gave an interview to Irish media saying that when he played for them he had been lied to about promised changes to make the team more representative so why is he acting surprised that this has happened again?

I respect Wayne Bennett for treating it like the farce that is is and trying to salvage something from it by getting some England World Cup preparation in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, damp squib said:

It's a poor analogy.

Ratner's business model was always to sell tat pretending to be jewellery. He made the mistake of saying it out loud.

Bennett was doing a good job selling a quality product to a growing customer base and then his idiot boss bought a load of tat off some old bloke in a pub and told him to suspend all the good work he was doing and shift the tat first.

As for Brian Carney, he should take responsibility for providing an Irish fig leaf to this "Great Britain" nonsense. He gave an interview to Irish media saying that when he played for them he had been lied to about promised changes to make the team more representative so why is he acting surprised that this has happened again?

I respect Wayne Bennett for treating it like the farce that is is and trying to salvage something from it by getting some England World Cup preparation in.

Brian Carney is just embarrassing Irish league fans and players at this stage. I don't understand his obsession with calling the team "GB and Ireland", when clearly they have no intention of branding itself as that. We should be distancing ourselves from this, not desperately clinging onto this nonsense.

  • Like 2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Brian Carney is just embarrassing Irish league fans and players at this stage. I don't understand his obsession with calling the team "GB and Ireland", when clearly they have no intention of branding itself as that. We should be distancing ourselves from this, not desperately clinging onto this nonsense.

I completely agree. Did you see his previous column?

An entire article about how the tour would have been a success if they had fully embraced the different "Home Nations" (his words). The entire point of the article was basically "stop calling it GB" and he refers to "GB and Ireland" about a hundred times. His editor then publishes it with a Title and Sub-heading that both refer to the team as GB. TotalRL.com publish a commentary on his article in which they refer to the team exclusively as GB, ignore the point of the article and focus on a throwaway comment about Darryl Powell. They don't care and he's a fool for continuing to try.

To any Irish person reading his articles the subtext of what he is saying is blindingly obvious. But he's writing for a British audience who don't understand the problem and don't want to understand, and in order to get the point across he would have to get explicitly political which would probably get him the James McClean/poppy treatment and his P45. I would sympathise, but then I remember that he cheerleaded the return of "GB" having seen all of this happen before so he only has himself to blame.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Brian Carney is just embarrassing Irish league fans and players at this stage. I don't understand his obsession with calling the team "GB and Ireland", when clearly they have no intention of branding itself as that. We should be distancing ourselves from this, not desperately clinging onto this nonsense.

It was GB and Ireland though. 

I've noticed that, since the brand was brought back, they've dropped the coat of arms on the right breast. That's probably due to the fact that the RLI wanted nothing to do with it from what I heard.

It's not clear what this brand being brought back was meant to stand for; what its intentions were; what its future was; who and where exactly it represents.

Employing Bennett as the coach killed the concept because he treated it as a friendly series for England. Some people have said the respect him for treating it like the farce it is. Screw that. He should never have taken the job if he didn't buy into the concept of it.

  • Like 3

Wells%20Motors%20(Signature)_zps67e534e4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, damp squib said:

I completely agree. Did you see his previous column?

An entire article about how the tour would have been a success if they had fully embraced the different "Home Nations" (his words). The entire point of the article was basically "stop calling it GB" and he refers to "GB and Ireland" about a hundred times. His editor then publishes it with a Title and Sub-heading that both refer to the team as GB. TotalRL.com publish a commentary on his article in which they refer to the team exclusively as GB, ignore the point of the article and focus on a throwaway comment about Darryl Powell. They don't care and he's a fool for continuing to try.

To any Irish person reading his articles the subtext of what he is saying is blindingly obvious. But he's writing for a British audience who don't understand the problem and don't want to understand, and in order to get the point across he would have to get explicitly political which would probably get him the James McClean/poppy treatment and his P45. I would sympathise, but then I remember that he cheerleaded the return of "GB" having seen all of this happen before so he only has himself to blame.

Gosh that's depressing to see. He really is alone in this battle, as you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in Ireland that wants Irish players in a team called GB. The Lions in union are still to this day called the British lions by some quarters in the British media, so how he thinks there is a chance of getting the Ireland name tacked onto this is beyond me. Not that he should be even trying to in the first place.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It was GB and Ireland though. 

I've noticed that, since the brand was brought back, they've dropped the coat of arms on the right breast. That's probably due to the fact that the RLI wanted nothing to do with it from what I heard.

It's not clear what this brand being brought back was meant to stand for; what its intentions were; what its future was; who and where exactly it represents.

Employing Bennett as the coach killed the concept because he treated it as a friendly series for England. Some people have said the respect him for treating it like the farce it is. Screw that. He should never have taken the job if he didn't buy into the concept of it.

Was there actually a job for coaches to apply for, or was the role simply given to Bennett? In some ways I don't think you can blame Bennett for focusing purely on the job he's there to do, which is to coach England, if the role was simply handed to him. It provided him with an opportunity to coach most of his England players this year otherwise he wouldn't have had that opportunity.

It was completely ridiculous to bring back GB, claim it is some separate entity to England and then hand the coaching job to someone whose only interest is England. Bennett's been in the game long enough for everyone to know what he's like.

I wouldn't even have minded if they had included players from the Celtic nations who perhaps might not have made a full strength side - because if you're going to bring back Great Britain then it only makes sense if you're going to go all in with this British identity. If it's coached by the England coach and full of England players it's not worth it.

Edited by EagleEyePie
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It was GB and Ireland though. 

I've noticed that, since the brand was brought back, they've dropped the coat of arms on the right breast. That's probably due to the fact that the RLI wanted nothing to do with it from what I heard.

When and where? Absolutely everything to do with the team is referred to as "Great Britain RL Lions". That's their official name.

It goes far beyond the name though. It's a red, white and blue jersey with a Union flag on it and they sing the British anthem for God's sake!

Anyway I'm falling into the same trap as Brian Carney. At this stage anyone who wants to or is capable of understanding the problem already does and anyone who can't or doesn't want to won't be persuaded.

The ridiculous thing is that I don't even want them to change anything. Anyone who wants the team back wants "Great Britain RL", the "iconic" red, white and blue jersey and the bloody anthem. I just want them to stop claiming it represents Ireland!

Edited by damp squib
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Gosh that's depressing to see. He really is alone in this battle, as you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in Ireland that wants Irish players in a team called GB. The Lions in union are still to this day called the British lions by some quarters in the British media, so how he thinks there is a chance of getting the Ireland name tacked onto this is beyond me. Not that he should be even trying to in the first place.

The difference is that in Union that's the exception. The team is almost always referred to as "The British and Irish Lions" or just "The Lions", certainly in any official capacity, and the jersey and anthem are neutral.

But this isn't because they're more enlightened, it's because the Irish contingent insisted on it if the team was to continue. The Irish representation in GB RL Lions are all born and raised in Britain and don't understand or care, and the one player who was from actually from Ireland (Carney) was completely ignored when he raised objections.

Edited by damp squib

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, damp squib said:

The difference is that in Union that's the exception. The team is almost always referred to as "The British and Irish Lions" or just "The Lions", certainly in any official capacity, and the jersey and anthem are neutral.

But this isn't because they're more enlightened, it's because the Irish contingent insisted on it if the team was to continue. The Irish representation in GB RL Lions are all born and raised in Britain and don't understand or care, and the one player who was from actually from Ireland (Carney) was completely ignored when he raised objections.

Yeah good points, any small minute chance this team had in respresting Ireland will always be squashed by the British media, who have always disrespected Irish sports teams and stars by claiming them as "British" (see Katie Taylor, Shane Lowry, Conor McGregor etc). The BBC and sky sports have been pulled up on this so many times now, I genuinely think they do it for click bait at this stage.

Edited by Keith989

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, damp squib said:

The difference is that in Union that's the exception. The team is almost always referred to as "The British and Irish Lions" or just "The Lions", certainly in any official capacity, and the jersey and anthem are neutral.

But this isn't because they're more enlightened, it's because the Irish contingent insisted on it if the team was to continue. The Irish representation in GB RL Lions are all born and raised in Britain and don't understand or care, and the one player who was from actually from Ireland (Carney) was completely ignored when he raised objections.

Ouch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Yeah good points, any small minute chance this team had in respresting Ireland will always be squashed by the British media, who have always disrespected Irish sports teams and stars by claiming them as "British" (see Katie Taylor, Shane Lowry, Conor McGregor etc). The BBC and sky sports have been pulled up on this so many times now, I genuinely think they do it for click bait at this stage.

I don't think they do it on purpose, we're not that important. There's just widespread ignorance (deliberately cultivated) about the relationship and history between Britain and Ireland. Mostly it just comes from a well meaning but deeply misguided belief that Ireland is part of the "British Family of Nations", rather than a former British colony, and therefore they have no idea why wrapping Ireland up in British symbols is controversial, to put it mildly. This is why the response to pointing these things out to many British people is usually defensiveness as it challenges long held world views and makes people uncomfortable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, damp squib said:

When and where? Absolutely everything to do with the team is referred to as "Great Britain RL Lions". That's their official name.

I said it was, not it is. I've never heard the phrase "Great Britain Rugby League Lions" before this tour. It seems to be on everything this time, including the scoreboard initials: GBRLL. It looks unnecessary. They're playing rugby league. It's not the NZRLK. 

Lions in the monicker. GB is the area represented. RL is the sport. Don't overcomplicate it by putting everything in!

Speaking of the area represented...

49 minutes ago, damp squib said:

It goes far beyond the name though. It's a red, white and blue jersey with a Union flag on it and they sing the British anthem for God's sake!

So why do they selected Irish players and have an Irish badge on the Lions coat of arms? It IS intended to represent Ireland too. It's either an afterthought or complete ignorance.

Great-Britain-RL.jpg.15e2ef3359b3abbdce30172de7730a3f.jpg

eng_pl_GREAT-BRITAIN-RUGBY-RL-PUMA-SHIRT-XL-41313_1.thumb.jpg.20515ec178934a4969ce0adf986e9da3.jpg

0413b_qB3PaEVLDQytPExAfwd9oEAL.jpeg.thumb.jpg.dcdb2c6de77d1950fa328abdd3d7617a.jpg

It even says "British Isles XIII" on the badge.

If it's meant to be the same team, the equivalent now is including Remi Casty in the GB team at the moment. Like Ireland, France isn't mentioned in the team name or the national anthem (at least they have the right colours though!).

I genuinely am beginning to think that the powers that be simply don't know that Great Britain and the United Kingdom are 2 different things.

53 minutes ago, damp squib said:

The ridiculous thing is that I don't even want them to change anything. Anyone who wants the team back wants "Great Britain RL", the "iconic" red, white and blue jersey and the bloody anthem. I just want them to stop claiming it represents Ireland!

Well I think that's what they've tried to do this year, like I said. They've dropped the only link to Ireland (the coat of arms). But the Lions I grew up with DID represent Ireland too. It very much had Cork-born Carney playing for it, with an Irish badge on the coat of arms. I'm beginning to think that he only played on residency now and no one told us (and him)!

So not only is this a terrible nostalgia tour, it's a bloody inaccurate one.


Wells%20Motors%20(Signature)_zps67e534e4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we're mostly in agreement Wellsy.

I would say though that regardless of whether "& Ireland" was previously in the official team, it was never referred to as such in the media or by the players or the RL public. And an Ireland badge on an otherwise entirely British-themed Jersey with a British anthem is not adequate representation for a team made up of two different countries. It treats Ireland as a whole as if it is a constituent country of the UK.

Quote

I genuinely am beginning to think that the powers that be simply don't know that Great Britain and the United Kingdom are 2 different things.

Not just that, they don't know that Great Britain, the United Kingdom and Ireland are 3 different things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see why GB doesn't need more backs on this tour. The forwards have been very good but the backs are uniformly AWFUL. None of them could hold down a regular first grade spot in the NRL. I fear my Canberra Raiders will deeply regret buying George Williams. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...