Is the British game hypocrites in regards Catalans and Toulouse?

[Marauder]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:22 PM, bobbruce said:

I’ve no idea why we don’t just give two SL spots to the FRL and let them decide how clubs get in and out of SL. Then adding more French clubs if/when they become ready. 

You never know, we could have a super league consisting of 1 x Canadian team, 1 x American team, 1 x Russian team 1 x German team 7 x French teams, London Broncos, Coventry & Newcastle..

[owls]

Toulouse should have been in SLE right from the very start, the plan was for 2 French teams originally,i personally think they have been treated very poorly with a very insular minded attitude from many people,

for all those that say there isn't enough quality players for 14 teams, then how is that Toronto and Toulouse have beaten super league sides, 14 teams should be in the league and maybe 16 in 3 or 4 years time,

 

[Lewis]

35 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

An issue that often gets ignored is not just how a club like Les Catalan gets in to SL, but what happens next. What happens if they are relegated? thats an issue that has never been tested. How can we possibly expect an overseas team to adjust between a pro league and a semi-pro one with a couple of months notice. How can we expect to get buy in from local authorities etc When teams can be moving from leagues where they get tens of thousands and thousands travelling to leagues where clubs get hundreds and tens will be travelling. How can we get buy in from overseas TV companies when they dont know if they will have a team to screen in a fully pro comp next year.

Scale matters, we pretend it doesn't but the fact it does keeps whacking us in the face with alarming regularity.

What is also often forgotten is the benefit Les Catalans had of getting 2 years to build. They could go out get players, get sponsors, get a backroom staff together, get corporates involved, grow and enthuse the fanbase and ready themselves to enter the league. Thats how in just over a decade they have managed to grow their revenues to greater than all but leeds.

Nail on the head for me. 

[Rupert Prince]

On 9/22/2018 at 11:07 PM, yipyee said:

Catalan was not deemed a threat to the established, Toulouse are...

I do not see them as a threat to the established since they probably would prefer a 10 team SL.

It might work 14 teams in a few years. 

[Celt]

On 9/22/2018 at 10:08 PM, Scubby said:

What do Toulouse have to prove if you compare their situation with Catalans inclusion? Over 4000 there today. Are we hypocrites or just too bloody minded?

 

Nail on the head with this post.

Unfortunately any sport that decides it will be "governed" from Yorkshire inevitably becomes infested with small-mindedness, parochialism, nepotism, and self-interest, not to mention an incredible reluctance to embrace change. 

Less than 20 years ago, club rugby union was being played on roped-fields often with no stands and sometimes virtually zero spectators. Now they have finals in Bilbao and thousands of people walking away already booking up for next year (Newcastle) despite having no idea which teams will be playing. Rugby League meanwhile still has major stakeholders who think that having Leigh in the competition is preferable to Toronto, Perpignan or even London(!) as.... 'they will bring more away fans'.

A small-town sport for small-town mindsets.

[owls]

8 hours ago, Celt said:

Nail on the head with this post.

Unfortunately any sport that decides it will be "governed" from Yorkshire inevitably becomes infested with small-mindedness, parochialism, nepotism, and self-interest, not to mention an incredible reluctance to embrace change. 

Less than 20 years ago, club rugby union was being played on roped-fields often with no stands and sometimes virtually zero spectators. Now they have finals in Bilbao and thousands of people walking away already booking up for next year (Newcastle) despite having no idea which teams will be playing. Rugby League meanwhile still has major stakeholders who think that having Leigh in the competition is preferable to Toronto, Perpignan or even London(!) as.... 'they will bring more away fans'.

A small-town sport for small-town mindsets.

completely agree and I am of Yorkshire descent,

[RayCee]

I would like to see Toulouse in SL. It would provide a real derby game in France. It has the potential to catch the media attention more and the opportunity for greater sponsorship. It would help the game to improve overall.

However, I would hate to see TO get into SL and not be competitive. They need to have solid financial backing and sound management. I don’t know enough about the club know if those fundamentals are in place or can be anytime soon. 

 

[Celt]

On 9/24/2018 at 3:08 AM, CanadianRugger said:

I personally think if the RFL were mindful of expansion, they would have kept the Eights and marketed the entire professional game as "One League, Three Tiers".  It is clear as day to me that the League's are no longer exclusively an M62 endeavour or even a British endeavour, and shouldn't be treated as such.  

The LNR in French Rugby Union has two fully professional leagues that collectively contain over 30 professional rugby teams, with fluid movement of teams between the two leagues.  The LNR even has a long term plan to establish a 3rd Tier of Professional Rugby Union in the country with the expectation that a new Federale Elite division will be added to the LNR system. 

https://www.rugbyworld.com/news/french-rugby-enjoys-a-popularity-boom-68018

 

 

Two issues with this:

1 - the third league is in no way professional, and is barely semi professional in some cases. You literally have low-end (potentially) professional clubs like Bradford and York matched up with teams that are at the 'leisure' end of the amateurish scale - Oxford (a total joke) West Wales (off-season keep fit for union players) etc. So '3 tiers' of professionalism (in either funding OR mindset) is simply not the case.

2 -  without wishing to drag this off topic -the FFR has scrapped the F1 Elite pool. There probably will be a 3rd fully professional tier soon, but the most recent attempt did not work. A friend of mine played in the league and he told me that from the outset half the participants did not meet the criteria to be promoted. 

[yipyee]

On 9/24/2018 at 6:02 PM, Rupert Prince said:

I do not see them as a threat to the established since they probably would prefer a 10 team SL.

It might work 14 teams in a few years. 

Well a ten team SL with Toulouse Toronto and Catalan would mean only 7 of the establishment so therefore a threat! 

Of course that would be a better league but hey let's hold the game back for the sake of a few villages!

[Rupert Prince]

29 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Well a ten team SL with Toulouse Toronto and Catalan would mean only 7 of the establishment so therefore a threat! 

Of course that would be a better league but hey let's hold the game back for the sake of a few villages!

A 10 team league would not include those teams, and it would not have included Salford or Widnes.  My understanding is that this was one option. It might have been a bargaining tool of course.

As it is we have 12 teams and 1 up 1 down. Just about sustainable. What the game needs are additional VIABLE teams, then we can expand the game.  14 teams? Fine. Lets find them. And lets find the extra money (courtesy of SKY?) to sustain them.

[yipyee]

7 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

A 10 team league would not include those teams, and it would not have included Salford or Widnes.  My understanding is that this was one option. It might have been a bargaining tool of course.

As it is we have 12 teams and 1 up 1 down. Just about sustainable. What the game needs are additional VIABLE teams, then we can expand the game.  14 teams? Fine. Lets find them. And lets find the extra money (courtesy of SKY?) to sustain them.

Exactly a 10 team league to protect a few clubs who don't want bigger clubs threatening the status quo, watch this space for a 14 team league to again protect a few clubs from the drop when the bigger Toulouse and Toronto make it to SL