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Reserves 2020


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Just now, Dunbar said:

The player that I think about in these conversations is Harry Smith. An outstanding Academy player who put in the most dominant display I have seen from a junior half back in the last series against the Australian Schoolboys. 

He is  now reaching an age where he cannot play Academy rugby and he has already been on DR at Swinton and a game at London Skolars.

The question is would a player like Smith develop better as a player on DR with a Championship/League 1 side or with Wigan in their reserves. 

The problem I have with DR is the assumption that all a player needs to improve is game time.  I would argue that what they really need is high quality coaching, professional surroundings and an understanding of what you need to do to be a top quality professional Rugby player.

My view is if Wigan (and others) get the reserve system right Smith would be exposed to better coaches and surrounded by better players than at a DR club... the playing standard is of course part of the equation but only a part.

I am optimistic about what the reserve League could offer our game.

Don’t DR players train with their parent clubs during the week anyway and then attend the training of the club they’re being sent to at the weekend? 

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7 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Don’t DR players train with their parent clubs during the week anyway and then attend the training of the club they’re being sent to at the weekend? 

They may well do but I see that as being a pretty poor outcome. Being coached all week to play a certain way and execute plays with colleagues who are being coached to think in the same way... and then at the weekend play a game with a completely different group of players.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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16 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

They may well do but I see that as being a pretty poor outcome. Being coached all week to play a certain way and execute plays with colleagues who are being coached to think in the same way... and then at the weekend play a game with a completely different group of players.

Can personally see both sides of it. 

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19 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Can personally see both sides of it. 

As can I. Which is why I will judge based on outcomes rather than assumptions as some on this thread have done.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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The best solution is obviously going to be somewhere between a balance of reserves and loans. For both of them to work however they need to be fully resourced and financed (they have to be full time imo) and I see neither as particularly offering that at the moment. 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The best solution is obviously going to be somewhere between a balance of reserves and loans. For both of them to work however they need to be fully resourced and financed (they have to be full time imo) and I see neither as particularly offering that at the moment. 

I think you’re right. From a Saints perspective, Josh Simm playing reserve rugby probably isn’t that beneficial to him, having spent much of the year on DR at Leigh (and playing well, I believe), whereas for Lewis Dodd, the reserves are likely going to be the next step in his development. 

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4 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Don’t DR players train with their parent clubs during the week anyway and then attend the training of the club they’re being sent to at the weekend? 

Danny Richardson made a comment about this last year with his DR with Leigh. He would train all week at Saints but then never found out until the weekend where he was playing and if it was Leigh he then had little time to adjust their team. This resulted in some pretty indifferent displays and he said it didn't help his confidence at all.

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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Just now, Saint Toppy said:

Danny Richardson made a comment about this last year with his DR with Leigh. He would train all week at Saints but then never found out until the weekend where he was playing and if it was Leigh he then had little time to adjust their team. This resulted in some pretty indifferent displays and he said it didn't help his confidence at all.

He’s a bit daft if he wasn’t sure where he was playing each week. 

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17 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

He’s a bit daft if he wasn’t sure where he was playing each week. 

Why ?

He would often find himself in the 19 man squad for Saints so would spend the week training with them as if he were playing, but then on Friday would then find out if he was actually in the 17, and if not he would be sent to Leigh to pay for them at the weekend. 

St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions

 

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On 06/12/2019 at 12:43, Tommygilf said:

...Reserves fixtures have been released with several clubs looking to use them as pre-match build up for SL games. Looks like a straight h/a fixture list...

 

Not sure it’s as simple as that (unfortunately.) Reading through the RFL website...

https://www.rugby-league.com/championship__league_1/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

It appears the 14 reserve teams will only play 18 games, not 26 required for straight h/a.

AC8AB277-AA1D-461F-AF90-128FAE3E241F.jpeg

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4 hours ago, dead man inc said:

Not sure it’s as simple as that (unfortunately.) Reading through the RFL website...

https://www.rugby-league.com/championship__league_1/article/56084/reserves-and-academy-fixtures-released-for-

It appears the 14 reserve teams will only play 18 games, not 26 required for straight h/a.

AC8AB277-AA1D-461F-AF90-128FAE3E241F.jpeg

Micky mouse as you like, you need a full double round robin to crown a champion without playoffs!  

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On 12/12/2019 at 12:51, Oliver Clothesoff said:

He’s a bit daft if he wasn’t sure where he was playing each week. 

What are you suggesting he should have done, check his horoscope to see if Saints or Leigh were going to play him at the weekend?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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12 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Nah, just applied common sense. 

In what way? If he wasn't being told until the weekend whether he was playing for Saints or Leigh that weekend, what common sense should he have applied to know which team he was going to be playing for before he was told?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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