Exiles to return?

[Hela Wigmen]

Last week, many on here wanted regular games with France again, in the hope it would eventually improve them to a standard where games aren’t 40+ point blowout scorelines. A few days on and people want to see the Exiles return. Odd. 

 

[JM2010]

Why can't we have both?

[jim_57]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Last week, many on here wanted regular games with France again, in the hope it would eventually improve them to a standard where games aren’t 40+ point blowout scorelines. A few days on and people want to see the Exiles return. Odd. 

 

They're not mutually exclusive.

England should play France every year. Given the circumstances this year there could be a spot for a game against Exiles as playing any Southern Hemipshere team before the World Cup isn't a guaranteed option at this point.

[Hela Wigmen]

3 minutes ago, jim_57 said:

They're not mutually exclusive.

England should play France every year. Given the circumstances this year there could be a spot for a game against Exiles as playing any Southern Hemipshere team before the World Cup isn't a guaranteed option at this point.

The Exiles return is planned for next year, not this. I could understand and support it if the Exiles was returned as a one off this year given the pandemic but no way in a World Cup year should England be playing a completely made up side when they’re trying to grow the game and shift tickets for the World Cup. 

England v France mid-year in ‘21 and then England v whoever (even France again), as a World Cup warm up game makes much more sense than trying to force the Exiles, which was a resounding failure before. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

On 13/07/2020 at 08:12, Hela Wigmen said:

Shouldn’t happen in 2021. It should have been considered for this year and this year only. Next year England should play proper countries. 

There  are only 4 others Aus, NZ, PNG and France, the rest are cuertosy of the heritage rulings, mainly subsections of Aussie and Kiwi nationals.

[jim_57]

1 minute ago, Hela Wigmen said:

The Exiles return is planned for next year, not this. I could understand and support it if the Exiles was returned as a one off this year given the pandemic but no way in a World Cup year should England be playing a completely made up side when they’re trying to grow the game and shift tickets for the World Cup. 

England v France mid-year in ‘21 and then England v whoever (even France again), as a World Cup warm up game makes much more sense than trying to force the Exiles, which was a resounding failure before. 

 

I'd say given the highly probable lack of games this year it wouldn't hurt to play 3-4 before the World Cup.

Playing pre-season could work as a way to kick start the year with the best English players in Super League playing the best of the rest in Super League. It gives 17 English players another big game and a few test players from France, Ireland, the Pacific Islands etc get a game against high quality opposition in World Cup year.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

There  are only 4 others Aus, NZ, PNG and France, the rest are cuertosy of the heritage rulings, mainly subsections of Aussie and Kiwi nationals.

Cool. Doesn’t matter. Them’s the rules and that’s how it is. 

Rather see England v France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Jamaica or whoever than Exiles. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, jim_57 said:

I'd say given the highly probable lack of games this year it wouldn't hurt to play 3-4 before the World Cup.

Playing pre-season could work as a way to kick start the year with the best English players in Super League playing the best of the rest in Super League. It gives 17 English players another big game and a few test players from France, Ireland, the Pacific Islands etc get a game against high quality opposition in World Cup year.

Not a chance we’ll get 3-4 games before the World Cup. 

There’d be very little interest in that idea, too. 

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Last week, many on here wanted regular games with France again, in the hope it would eventually improve them to a standard where games aren’t 40+ point blowout scorelines. A few days on and people want to see the Exiles return. Odd. 

 

With the selection possibilities that an exile team could field from the SL of those not elegible to play for England, what would be your prediction scorewise of a match up? 

I think it would be far far more competitive than playing France.

[Hela Wigmen]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

With the selection possibilities that an exile team could field from the SL of those not elegible to play for England, what would be your prediction scorewise of a match up? 

I think it would be far far more competitive than playing France.

That close that fans didn’t care about it and stopped turning up. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

That close that fans didn’t care about it and stopped turning up. 

I would wager with you that more would turn up to watch than would for a fixture v France.

[jim_57]

9 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Not a chance we’ll get 3-4 games before the World Cup. 

There’d be very little interest in that idea, too. 

 

Maybe not, but if any year they should be aiming for it it's next year. Add a pre-season game and it's only a matter of 2-3 more mid-season and before the World Cup.

Debatable, if ever they're going to revive the concept it would be with SBW, Folau, Inglis & Maloney all in Super League.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, jim_57 said:

Maybe not, but if any year they should be aiming for it it's next year. Add a pre-season game and it's only a matter of 2-3 more mid-season and before the World Cup.

Debatable, if ever they're going to revive the concept it would be with SBW, Folau, Inglis & Maloney all in Super League.

They should definitely be looking at a few games in a World Cup year, I cannot see Super League clubs agreeing to that though. 

We had great players in the last Exiles team. Still failed. 

[Hela Wigmen]

8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I would wager with you that more would turn up to watch than would for a fixture v France.

Exiles went from 14k to 7k in two years. 

 

[Damien]

And what about if all these great players don't want to play for the Exiles? I remember being told that part of the reason the concept was scrapped the last time was because of a reluctance of players to turn out for the Exiles after Tommy Leuluai suffered a serious season ending injury in the last game. Up until then players had used it as a bit of a harmless meet up but then players thought it was no longer worth it. This coupled with dwindling interest and apathy saw it scrapped.

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Exiles went from 14k to 7k in two years. 

 

Yes I know, but v France was worse.

Did you go to the LSV for those French games Hela?

Considering that Leigh is just around the corner from three of our best supported clubs who lets say for arguments sake have 10K home fans each, there was not much appetite from those for the French fixtures, and in my opinion quite rightly so they were forgone conclusions of one-sided games, again would you wager on the outcome of England v the best of the rest non English the SL can offer?

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

And what about if all these great players don't want to play for the Exiles? I remember being told that part of the reason the concept was scrapped the last time was because of a reluctance of players to turn out for the Exiles after Tommy Leuluai suffered a serious season ending injury in the last game. Up until then players had used it as a bit of a harmless meet up but then players thought it was no longer worth it. This coupled with dwindling interest and apathy saw it scrapped.

Isn't that just an attitude thing Damien, reward them well enough with the folding stuff and they will play, ask yourself why are they over here in the first place?

[JM2010]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I know, but v France was worse.

Did you go to the LSV for those French games Hela?

Considering that Leigh is just around the corner from three of our best supported clubs who lets say for arguments sake have 10K home fans each, there was not much appetite from those for the French fixtures, and in my opinion quite rightly so they were forgone conclusions of one-sided games, again would you wager on the outcome of England v the best of the rest non English the SL can offer?

I'd probably back rest of the world but it would be a good game played at a high standard

[Hela Wigmen]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I know, but v France was worse.

Did you go to the LSV for those French games Hela?

Considering that Leigh is just around the corner from three of our best supported clubs who lets say for arguments sake have 10K home fans each, there was not much appetite from those for the French fixtures, and in my opinion quite rightly so they were forgone conclusions of one-sided games, again would you wager on the outcome of England v the best of the rest non English the SL can offer?

France v England pulled 16k and 14k in France. Go there, if we have to. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Isn't that just an attitude thing Damien, reward them well enough with the folding stuff and they will play, ask yourself why are they over here in the first place?

I can only go by what I was told. Unless you are talking huge money, which the Exiles players were not getting and realistically wont be getting, then its simply not worth it. A few hundred pounds or even £1k is peanuts when you are talking about careers and players on £100k contracts anyway. They are here for the money and their contracts, getting injured in a nothing Exiles match potentially jeopardises all of that.

Even the actual matches reflected this and they were very disappointing from an intensity point of view. My lasting memory of these matches is both sets of players looking like they were more concerned with avoiding injury and few looking like they were taking it seriously. The first couple of matches even had players messing about and laughing and joking with their club teammates in the opposing team. SOO it certainly wasn't.

[Pickford]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There  are only 4 others Aus, NZ, PNG and France, the rest are cuertosy of the heritage rulings, mainly subsections of Aussie and Kiwi nationals.

I wouldn't say Wales are a heritage team. They do have some heritage players, but aren't completely reliant on them like Scotland, Ireland, Italy etc. 

Wales most recent squad was the 9s World Cup. They had four heritage players. So did PNG who you see, and rightly so, as a genuine side. 

Just because of Wales standing in the international game doesn't mean they're not a proper team. 

 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Pickford said:

I wouldn't say Wales are a heritage team. They do have some heritage players, but aren't completely reliant on them like Scotland, Ireland, Italy etc. 

Wales most recent squad was the 9s World Cup. They had four heritage players. So did PNG who you see, and rightly so, as a genuine side. 

Just because of Wales standing in the international game doesn't mean they're not a proper team. 

 

I completely agree. It does Wales a huge injustice, considering their RL history, clubs and the number of Welsh players, to just lump them in with heritage nations.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

I can only go by what I was told. Unless you are talking huge money, which the Exiles players were not getting and realistically wont be getting, then its simply not worth it. A few hundred pounds or even £1k is peanuts when you are talking about careers and players on £100k contracts anyway. They are here for the money and their contracts, getting injured in a nothing Exiles match potentially jeopardises all of that.

Even the actual matches reflected this and they were very disappointing from an intensity point of view. My lasting memory of these matches is both sets of players looking like they were more concerned with avoiding injury and few looking like they were taking it seriously. The first couple of matches even had players messing about and laughing and joking with their club teammates in the opposing team. SOO it certainly wasn't.

The risk of injury situation happens every time a player strides over the touchline to play a game, If you are telling me that they are not suitably insured as they would most certainly be for any other game they play in then I would agree with you, but we both know that is not the case. 

Are you summising what they would be paid or do you know for definite, you seem very sure?

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, Pickford said:

I wouldn't say Wales are a heritage team. They do have some heritage players, but aren't completely reliant on them like Scotland, Ireland, Italy etc. 

Wales most recent squad was the 9s World Cup. They had four heritage players. So did PNG who you see, and rightly so, as a genuine side. 

Just because of Wales standing in the international game doesn't mean they're not a proper team. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

I completely agree. It does Wales a huge injustice, considering their RL history, clubs and the number of Welsh players, to just lump them in with heritage nations.

Lusten guy's you are preaching to the converted, as a Nation we would have had great difficulty in ever beating the Aussies as Great Britain even less so as a stand alone  England without the great Welsh player's that have graced our rep teams. 

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The risk of injury situation happens every time a player strides over the touchline to play a game, If you are telling me that they are not suitably insured as they would most certainly be for any other game they play in then I would agree with you, but we both know that is not the case. 

Are you summising what they would be paid or do you know for definite, you seem very sure?

We are talking about a meaningless one off game where they are not representing their country that the players involved do not care about. Not a club contract or the honour of representing your country. I can only go by what I was told by a player that was injured in one of these games and refused to play another. Others followed suit. We can agree to disagree and you can choose to believe that or not.

I know they weren't paid much, I couldn't tell you exactly. They certainly weren't doing it for the money, it was for those players to have a gettogether and booze up. Again you can choose to believe that or not.