Am I Right?

[TIWIT]

As anyone who has perused the main forum the last couple of days can see I have been defending TWP and their past history, most especially their path into 'Super League' Last fall. 

There seems to be quite a difference in what I remember happening and what others, all in the UK, insist happened.

So my question is: am I right? Did TWP get screwed at the last minute and if they didn't agree to a very one-sided deal they wouldn't have been admitted to 'SL'? Or are the Brits right that TWP knew the terms going in and accepted them anyway (which I find very difficult to believe, but given what we've since learned about David Argyle I suppose all things are possible).

Opinions and clarification sought from my fellow Wolfpack fans no matter where they are from. But only TWP fans. I know who the others are and what they believe, which is why I'm posing my question here.

[Cameron Highlander]

23 hours ago, TIWIT said:

As anyone who has perused the main forum the last couple of days can see I have been defending TWP and their past history, most especially their path into 'Super League' Last fall. 

There seems to be quite a difference in what I remember happening and what others, all in the UK, insist happened.

So my question is: am I right? Did TWP get screwed at the last minute and if they didn't agree to a very one-sided deal they wouldn't have been admitted to 'SL'? Or are the Brits right that TWP knew the terms going in and accepted them anyway (which I find very difficult to believe, but given what we've since learned about David Argyle I suppose all things are possible).

Opinions and clarification sought from my fellow Wolfpack fans no matter where they are from. But only TWP fans. I know who the others are and what they believe, which is why I'm posing my question here.

Good post TIWIT and I appreciate your posting it here and not on the 300 page Wolfpack monstrosity of a thread.  I would say that since its creation I have not read any more than 20 pages worth, but I know that you post there all the time, (as I scroll past it you are very often the "last" poster at that time), and I admire your gumption in doing battle with all the luddites, flatcappers, ferret jigglers, whippet walkers, and black pudding and pie eaters.  Now, don't get me wrong, aside from the historical luddites, there is nothing wrong with flat caps, owing a pet ferret or whippet, and enjoying black pudding (love it) and pies, it's just that this is how the "traditional" and "real" Rugby League fans would seem to be characterized....by themselves no less!!!!

To your question here...."Did TWP get screwed at the last minute and if they didn't agree to a very one-sided deal they wouldn't have been admitted to 'SL'?"  I believe that you are absolutely 100% correct with your belief on that.

To today's news that the new Wolfpack ownership group have come to an "agreement" with the players GMB Union leadership that all unpaid wages due and outstanding will be paid in full with the proviso's that the Wolfpack is/are re-admitted to Super League next year and that they will receive a full share(1/12th.) of the Central Distribution money pot.

I'm wondering if this is postulating to a degree by both parties here, since neither of these two parties have any role in the real decision making, it being solely up to the Board of SLE....viz....the 11 Super League Clubs representatives (the 11 Super League Clubs' Chairmen?) on that SLE Board.

But....it certainly makes it crystal clear to said SLE Board as to what will NOT happen should they reject the Wolfpack re-admittance application.  I don't know if they will feel like they are being put between a rock and a hard place but if they do....looks good on them.  I says....good timing by Wolfpack and the GMB Union in making this announcement.

Your thought and comments welcome TIWIT.

[TIWIT]

An old adage comes to mind here, one that LiVolsi seems to have taken to heart: Learn from the mistakes of others because you can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself.

Fortunately he has Bob Hunter by his side, who knows all about the machinations of the greedy fellows (not the word I was going to use but...) who run SL mostly for their own benefit with little regard for the long-term health of the game.

I think in the end Sky calls the shots. Does Sky see a benefit to SL having a foreign team playing in the League? Can they make money out of TWP's presence? If yes, they're in. If not... been a fun ride while it lasted.

[RayCee]

On 18/09/2020 at 13:28, TIWIT said:

Did TWP get screwed at the last minute and if they didn't agree to a very one-sided deal they wouldn't have been admitted to 'SL'? Or are the Brits right that TWP knew the terms going in and accepted them anyway?

Opinions and clarification sought from my fellow Wolfpack fans no matter where they are from. But only TWP fans. I know who the others are and what they believe, which is why I'm posing my question here.

I think both points of view are correct, both agreed to the deal but was it Handled fairly. I'd like to illustrate why I think it wasn’t.

I apply for a job where I have skills that my employer really needs. Others are seeking to hire me and that is well known. The company falls over backwards to accomodate my every wish.

I apply for a job I desperately want, yet my credentials are nothing special. Many others could fill that role and I know that. Therefore, I feel I need to agree to just about any condition to get the job.

In the two scenarios above, the negotiating favoured one side heavily. An ideal situation is where both sides are on an equal footing so what is agreed to is fair for both sides. Even when the situation farours one side, reasonableness should lead to something both sides are comfortable with.

What happened between SL and the WP was anything but fair. Sure, the WP had to agree to gain admittance but SL used their position to gain an unfair advantage. The WP really wanted to get into SL and in the short term at least they needed that more than SL needed them. Therefore, SL was able to to put virtually any condition on them and get what they wanted.

So where does the blame lie for what transpired. I blame SL for using their stronger position to their full advantage without concern for the WP's position. A one-sided deal in the end is bad for both parties. Besides, if you get a reputation for doing one-sided deals, eventually people won’t want to deal with you. 

[tms]

On 18/09/2020 at 02:28, TIWIT said:

 

So my question is: am I right? Did TWP get screwed at the last minute and if they didn't agree to a very one-sided deal they wouldn't have been admitted to 'SL'? Or are the Brits right that TWP knew the terms going in and accepted them anyway (which I find very difficult to believe, but given what we've since learned about David Argyle I suppose all things are possible).

 

 

you tell me 

 

Super League chief Elstone warned: “They have to meet minimum standards. We are seeking a number of assurances - if we get those and Toronto win they are in.

“We are still in dialogue with the RFL and it is important that we get those assurances well before promotion is determined on the pitch.

“The dialogue started in July. What we cannot afford to do is make that decision once promotion is decided.”

Elstone confirmed the Wolfpack won’t take up their £2million Super League allowance from the TV contract if they get promoted.but that their rivals will have to pay for their trips to North America.

 Super League want guarantees that they have enough finances to compete in the top flight without the handout.

The extra £2million will be split between the other 11 teams. Super League also want certain promises on other issues, including visa and accommodation problems for visiting teams.

[CanadianRugger]

So basically Livolsi just needs to prove that he has the money to finance this and is in it for the right reasons.

I don't mind that Livolsi wasn't in the meeting to answer questions, he shouldn't really need to be either.  Bob Hunter is the CEO and one of DA's big mistakes was becoming the face of this team when an executive could have handled it for him.

[RayCee]

Ironically, the unfair tv deal issue is the WPs best chance of staying in SL. If the 12th team was in England, the TV pot would be divided 12 ways. With the WP it is divvied up 11 ways. The 11 clubs want the bigger payout.

[Cameron Highlander]

9 hours ago, RayCee said:

Ironically, the unfair tv deal issue is the WPs best chance of staying in SL. If the 12th team was in England, the TV pot would be divided 12 ways. With the WP it is divvied up 11 ways. The 11 clubs want the bigger payout.

That was then RayCee but this is now.   The proposed new ownership group, headed by Mr. LiVolsi have made it crystal clear I do believe that, 1) they are not going to take over the Wolfpack in any competition other than Super League and, 2) They require a full Club share (1/12th.) of the money pot that is distributed to SL Clubs. If not it is Hasta La Vista to the Wolfpack and if that is the case then so be it.  It was a great 3 years and we in the Toronto area who frequented Lamport and its' Liberty Village surroundings all had a blast.

[RayCee]

On 28/09/2020 at 13:56, Cameron Highlander said:

That was then RayCee but this is now.   The proposed new ownership group, headed by Mr. LiVolsi have made it crystal clear I do believe that, 1) they are not going to take over the Wolfpack in any competition other than Super League and, 2) They require a full Club share (1/12th.) of the money pot that is distributed to SL Clubs. If not it is Hasta La Vista to the Wolfpack and if that is the case then so be it.  It was a great 3 years and we in the Toronto area who frequented Lamport and its' Liberty Village surroundings all had a blast.

Thanks for the heads up Cameron. I had no idea they had made those conditions. With the way SL is run in the UK and the covid issues, I have let slip my keeping up with the game in the NH. I rarely come to the site now.

I believe that if you're not getting a fair deal in any situation, stand up for what you believe is fair and walk away if necessary. If you let people use you as a door mat, that's sadly how they treat you. 

[CanadianRugger]

On 30/09/2020 at 23:46, RayCee said:

Thanks for the heads up Cameron. I had no idea they had made those conditions. With the way SL is run in the UK and the covid issues, I have let slip my keeping up with the game in the NH. I rarely come to the site now.

I believe that if you're not getting a fair deal in any situation, stand up for what you believe is fair and walk away if necessary. If you let people use you as a door mat, that's sadly how they treat you. 

Livolsi seems to be pretty intelligent.  He made a very shrewd decision coming to an agreement with the Players Union before even dealing with Super League.

By bringing the players union in to the fold he has potentially outflanked the SL owners and my take on the entire thing is that the reason the SL owners delayed was because they are worried about a potential player revolt/lawsuits.

The game is already broke, a bunch of clubs are on the brink.  It's like a bunch of people drowning trying to gasp for air by dragging the others down.

[TIWIT]

So it's pretty clear there's a difference in views on the founding conditions of TWP as wide as the Atlantic.

I will always believe our views are the correct ones as we have more of an emotional investment in the club and its founding than the nay-sayers who ingnore the pitfalls RFL and most especially SL have thrown up in their path to discourage them and then subsequently retconnig events to back up their views.

[Kayakman]

On 08/10/2020 at 11:15, TIWIT said:

So it's pretty clear there's a difference in views on the founding conditions of TWP as wide as the Atlantic.

I will always believe our views are the correct ones as we have more of an emotional investment in the club and its founding than the nay-sayers who ingnore the pitfalls RFL and most especially SL have thrown up in their path to discourage them and then subsequently retconnig events to back up their views.

You were correct...we've been royally screwed but that is that!  The irony is that they have cut off their nose to spite their face...rather bizarre really.   All the best Tiwit.