Last world cup financials

[iangidds]

Sorry if this topic has been covered but I've been off the forums for a long time. Just wondering if the last world cup financial report was ever published and if so what was the profit /loss of the tournament?

[Griff]

Companies House is your friend there.

[iangidds]

11 hours ago, Griff said:

Companies House is your friend there.

Ok thanks , looks like they are burying bad news as they are not announcing anything as far as I can tell

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, iangidds said:

Ok thanks , looks like they are burying bad news as they are not announcing anything as far as I can tell

If you want me to do your research, I'll see if I've time tomorrow.

[iangidds]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

If you want me to do your research, I'll see if I've time tomorrow.

That would be amazing,  seems like it was a financial mess as here in Europe jobs are been cut and funds have dried up !

[Griff]

3 minutes ago, iangidds said:

That would be amazing,  seems like it was a financial mess as here in Europe jobs are been cut and funds have dried up !

You're blaming the World Cup for that?

Because funds have been savagely cut here in the UK too.

[dealwithit]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

You're blaming the World Cup for that?

Because funds have been savagely cut here in the UK too.

The WC is the money maker to pay the annual grants to each country and to fund several development manager roles. The role in Serbia overseeing central europe was just cut.  

[Derwent]

The tournament made a loss of £415k.

[gingerjon]

13 hours ago, Griff said:

You're blaming the World Cup for that?

Because funds have been savagely cut here in the UK too.

It was the withdrawal of money that was meant for international development that was going to be paid for out of World Cup profits.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Derwent said:

The tournament made a loss of £415k.

Is that before or after it made the fixed payment to the IRL?

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

The tournament made a loss of £415k.

Plus another £42,000 the following year.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07592215/filing-history

[Griff]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is that before or after it made the fixed payment to the IRL?

Dunno.  There's only a limited analysis of costs.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Griff said:

Dunno.  There's only a limited analysis of costs.

I have no idea how these things work but it feels like there's a few stories there.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is that before or after it made the fixed payment to the IRL?

"The underlying loss made in 2022 in the year of the tournament has meant that RLWC2021 Ltd is unable to meet itsmost significant remaining creditor, International Rugby League. RLWC2021 Ltd has committed to IRL to make payments against the outstanding rights fee as and when RLWC2021 receives the amounts it is owed by the competing nations"

That sort of raises more questions than it answers!

[Damien]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is that before or after it made the fixed payment to the IRL?

It has to be after because the IRL 2023 accounts show (and I'm presuming this included any fixed payment):

In 2022, the company received £4.81m of income, most of this being from the World Cup.

In the financial year ended 31st December 2022, the company had £1.04m of operating costs. This produced an operating profit of £3.76m. This compared to an operating loss of £489k in the previous financial year.

[Damien]

I still think if it was not for Covid the game would have made a huge profit from the RLWC, relatively speaking. The years delay added to costs immensely, whether that be needing to pay for agreements they had already made or employing staff for another year. That is before you get to the effect on attendances, all the tickets that had to be refunded and additional costs for marketing etc. I really do think you could have slapped on another £5 million to that figure income to the IRL.

As was the IRL still got a fair bit of money out of it.

[Griff]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

I still think if it was not for Covid the game would have made a huge profit from the RLWC, relatively speaking. The years delay added to costs immensely, whether that be needing to pay for agreements they had already made or employing staff for another year. That is before you get to the effect on attendances, all the tickets that had to be refunded and additional costs for marketing etc. I really do think you could have slapped on another £5 million to that figure income to the IRL.

As was the IRL still got a fair bit of money out of it.

That's fair.  It should be pointed out that not all the costs above the profit line went to third parties outside the game.  Some definitely benefited other RL entities.

[stookie]

On 22/11/2024 at 23:10, Damien said:

I still think if it was not for Covid the game would have made a huge profit from the RLWC, relatively speaking. The years delay added to costs immensely, whether that be needing to pay for agreements they had already made or employing staff for another year. That is before you get to the effect on attendances, all the tickets that had to be refunded and additional costs for marketing etc. I really do think you could have slapped on another £5 million to that figure income to the IRL.

As was the IRL still got a fair bit of money out of it.

I think that's too simplistic.

I agree compared to a hypothetical, non covid-interrupted alternative, it was a massively impacted.

But allowing for the low crowds at the end of 2021, gun shy after 18 months of lockdowns and restrictions etc, and the huge costs with the proposed chartered flights, and contained resort-style accommodation, I think 2021 would have also really struggled financially.

And that is with end-2021 turning out as it did, which was probably amongst the better possibilities, you shouldn't be planning events on this scale assuming the best case scenario.

Anyway, these results and the impacts stated above are gutting.

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, stookie said:

I think that's too simplistic.

I agree compared to a hypothetical, non covid-interrupted alternative, it was a massively impacted.

But allowing for the low crowds at the end of 2021, gun shy after 18 months of lockdowns and restrictions etc, and the huge costs with the proposed chartered flights, and contained resort-style accommodation, I think 2021 would have also really struggled financially.

And that is with end-2021 turning out as it did, which was probably amongst the better possibilities, you shouldn't be planning events on this scale assuming the best case scenario.

Anyway, these results and the impacts stated above are gutting.

Weird to say it's simplistic then say you agree.

How would it have really struggled being a year earlier either? The organisers would have saved a fortune and from memory additional government support was in place. The costs of this delay was well spoken about by organisers at the time. As was the fact that the costs didnt stack up,  that is why they pushed so hard against any delay. Despite all that it still delivered a decent return to the IRL.

I don't think anyone plans a major event expecting a once in a lifetime scenario, that closed down the world like nothing else in my lifetime, either. You can throw a lot of things at organisers but certainly not that. It's certainly fair, and a necessity, to expect organisers to book hotels, stadiums, flights, do marketing etc expecting the tournament to take place in 2021.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Damien

[Bull Mania]

Never felt there was enough scrutiny on the WC results or John Dutton who seemed to be presented as a messiah by the RL media. 

Don't get me wrong, covid had an impact but I've said it before that the WC got some basics hopelessly wrong, which was unforgivable as the 2013 nailed them. Purchasing tickets was a nightmare. The advertisements of "last few tickets remaining" when grounds weren't even a quarter full. Pricing was too high when you were relying on the same groups of people to attend multiple games in that area. Covid may have been the reason for a loss, but the actually organisation of the tournament I thought was really really poor.

[Dave T]

35 minutes ago, Bull Mania said:

Never felt there was enough scrutiny on the WC results or John Dutton who seemed to be presented as a messiah by the RL media. 

Don't get me wrong, covid had an impact but I've said it before that the WC got some basics hopelessly wrong, which was unforgivable as the 2013 nailed them. Purchasing tickets was a nightmare. The advertisements of "last few tickets remaining" when grounds weren't even a quarter full. Pricing was too high when you were relying on the same groups of people to attend multiple games in that area. Covid may have been the reason for a loss, but the actually organisation of the tournament I thought was really really poor.

It's probably not too easy to describe the tournament as loss making, although as usual there appears to be a lack of transparency, making it difficult to piece it all together. 

If £3m+ was paid to IRL for a hosting fee then it's potentially a decent result, although there are maybe challenges if the RFL are expected to underwrite the recent losses.

It's also hard to piece together how much of the costs were covered by the government funding and grants.

Edited November 26, 2024 by Dave T

[Impartial Observer]

During the WC I was looking at the website and was amazed how many directors they had. That must have cost a fortune. 

[dealwithit]

9 hours ago, Damien said:

Weird to say it's simplistic then say you agree.

How would it have really struggled being a year earlier either? The organisers would have saved a fortune and from memory additional government support was in place. The costs of this delay was well spoken about by organisers at the time. As was the fact that the costs didnt stack up,  that is why they pushed so hard against any delay. Despite all that it still delivered a decent return to the IRL.

I don't think anyone plans a major event expecting a once in a lifetime scenario, that closed down the world like nothing else in my lifetime, either. You can throw a lot of things at organisers but certainly not that. It's certainly fair, and a necessity, to expect organisers to book hotels, stadiums, flights, do marketing etc expecting the tournament to take place in 2021.

Damien, please ignore my feedback if you so choose to. But from my perspective, you seem to be growing increasingly combative on this forum. 

[Griff]

9 hours ago, dealwithit said:

Damien, please ignore my feedback if you so choose to. But from my perspective, you seem to be growing increasingly combative on this forum. 

I've noticed that too.

[Worzel]

18 hours ago, Bull Mania said:

Never felt there was enough scrutiny on the WC results or John Dutton who seemed to be presented as a messiah by the RL media. 

Don't get me wrong, covid had an impact but I've said it before that the WC got some basics hopelessly wrong, which was unforgivable as the 2013 nailed them. Purchasing tickets was a nightmare. The advertisements of "last few tickets remaining" when grounds weren't even a quarter full. Pricing was too high when you were relying on the same groups of people to attend multiple games in that area. Covid may have been the reason for a loss, but the actually organisation of the tournament I thought was really really poor.

Ticket sales were absolutely woeful, it is a challenging environment but there were a number of key errors made that a few people on here called out in advance. The outcome was all quite predictable. Mick Hogan was heavily involved in the ticketing and marketing strategy as a consultant, and I told him my concerns directly. They were confident. I hated to say "I told you so" afterwards, but...