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The Kiwis should be favorites for the Four Nations


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#1 ParisSurtout

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:20 PM

Likely Kiwi team for Four Nations:

Lance Hohaia (New Zealand Warriors)

Manu Vatuvei (New Zealand Warriors), Steve Matai (Manly Sea Eagles), Shaun Kenny-Dowell (Sydney Roosters), Jason Nightingale (St George Dragons)

Keiran Foran (Manly Sea Eagles)
Benji Marshall (Wests Tigers)


Simon Mannering (New Zealand Warriors),
Frank Pritchard (Penrith Panthers), Ben Matulino (New Zealand Warriors),
Adam Blair (Melbourne Storm), Isaac Luke (South Sydney), Roy Asotasi (South Sydney) ,


Bench:

Sika Manu (Melbourne Storm), Sam Rapira (New Zealand Warriors), Jared Waerea-Hargreaves (Sydney Roosters), Aaron Heremaia (New Zealand Warriors)


Australia will be weakened by the loss of Greg Inglis and Johnathan Thurston. The replacements will be excellent, but Inglis and Thurston have that x factor that opposing sides cannot counter.

England will be without Jamie Peacock in the front row. What a loss!

Adrian Morley and James Graham are the only other world class props for England. They face an awesome NZ front row. It is likely that young Louis McCarthy-Scarsbrook will face a baptism of fire.

The star English backrowers Gareth Ellis and Sam Burgess will be countered by Frank Pritchard and Ben Matulino.

Will Sean O'Loughlin be up to doing the covering tackles against some of these Kiwi monsters, especially given the speed of the likes of Matulino, Blair, Pritchard and Mannering?

And where can England find a three quarter line to match the Kiwi four? They didn't nickname Manu Vatuvei "The Beast" for no reason.

Let's be honest now. This Kiwi team is good enough to beat Australia.

I haven't even named anyone from Super League, because none of those, other than Tony Puletua, would be up to the standard of the named side. Greg Eastwood, though good, would have to miss out. You certainly could not pick Tommy Leuluai or David Solomona in place of any of the named players.

I am not trying to spread doom and gloom. I am just being realistic. This Kiwi team is very impressive. And England has problems with losing Peacock, and the perennial one of possessing only a second rate three quarter line.

You can rave all you like about the demonstrated talents of Eastmond and Tomkins, but they cannot do anything if playing behind a beaten pack.

Everything in England's Four Nations prospects will rest on the shoulders of Morley, Graham, Ellis and Burgess

Edited by ParisSurtout, 03 September 2010 - 12:42 AM.

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#2 bendyas

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:45 PM

Pathetic.

Hohaia - better than average at best.

Vatuvei - More errors in him than my GCSEs.
Matai - Made of rich tea biscuits.
Shaun K-D - Better than average at best.
Nightingale - Steady.

Foran - I'm pooing my pants.
Marshall - Not a 7.

Blair - Better than average, decent.
Luke - Class.
Asotasi - Nearly dead.
Pritchard - Good player.
Matulino - Who???
Mannering - Workhorse at best.


Jesus wept you do worry me.






#3 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:50 PM

lmao.....

odds on skybet

aus 2/9
NZ 11/2
eng 11/2
png 33/1

Edited by roughyedspud, 02 September 2010 - 06:53 PM.

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#4 thirteenthman

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:56 PM

The biggest problem the Kiwis have is getting all their best players out on the pitch at the same time. When that happens, as shown in the 08 WC, they're a match for anyone. The Kiwi boys seem to be more prone to injury - particularly Steve Matai.

As for NZ being favourites - no. Any competition where the Aussies are taking part in, they will be favourites, especially as they're playing it in their own backyard.



#5 ParisSurtout

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:30 PM

QUOTE (bendyas @ Sep 2 2010, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pathetic.

Hohaia - better than average at best.

Vatuvei - More errors in him than my GCSEs.
Matai - Made of rich tea biscuits.
Shaun K-D - Better than average at best.
Nightingale - Steady.

Foran - I'm pooing my pants.
Marshall - Not a 7.

Blair - Better than average, decent.
Luke - Class.
Asotasi - Nearly dead.
Pritchard - Good player.
Matulino - Who???
Mannering - Workhorse at best.


Jesus wept you do worry me.



Those comments suggest that you weren't watching many NRL games this year.

Where do I start? Hohaia has been in sizzling attacking form. Kenny Dowell has beeen smashing his opposition, including St Helen's and NSW golden boy Jamie Lyon. Matulino will wake you up when you actually see him.

Benji can win a game from either 6 or 7. Did you see him last weekend?

I remind you that New Zealand has already won the Tri Nations and the 2008 World Cup 34-20 against Australia, with Hohaia scoring two tries. Then the Kiwis had Mannering and Ropati in the centres, rather than the now brilliantly in form Matai and Kenny-Dowell.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 02 September 2010 - 07:41 PM.

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#6 Big Picture

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:32 PM

QUOTE (roughyedspud @ Sep 2 2010, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
lmao.....

odds on skybet

aus 2/9
NZ 11/2
eng 11/2
png 33/1

You're overlooking an important thing about odds and point spreads for sports betting. They're not based on how the bookies see the strength of the teams involved, but how they think the fans see their strength. If the fans think two teams are about even in strength but one's actually better than the other the bookies will quote them at the same odds or very similar ones so the betting each way will even out. That reduces their risk of taking a loss on the action.

To give a concrete example, Alabama's a 38-point favourite in their NCAA football season opener against San Jose State on Saturday. That doesn't mean the bookies think Alabama's 38 points better, it just means the betting public does. That spread is based on reputation and history as much as the current strength of the teams since both have changed personnel since last year and neither's played a game yet this year.

It's the same with the Skybet odds -- they're set based on how people will bet rather than on an assessment of how good the teams are.

#7 bendyas

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Sep 2 2010, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those comments suggest that you weren't watching many NRL games this year.

Where do I start? Hohaia has been in sizzling attacking form. Kenny Dowell has beeen smashing his opposition, including St Helen's and NSW golden boy Jamie Lyon. Matulino will wake you up when you actually see him.

Benji can win a game from either 6 or 7. Did you see him last weekend?

I remind you that New Zealand has already won it.


Hohaia is ok up the middle on the back of a decent pack. He's ok.

Kenny Dowell isn't a top centre, whether you say he is or not. He just isn't.

Benji is brilliant (at times) for Wests where his unpredictability is a massive part of the game plan. In a new team which needs structure, his effectiveness is significantly less.

Matulino plays for NZ doesn't he? Not Brisbane.

I suggest you watch some more, learn some more, watch some more, learn some more then get back to me.





#8 ParisSurtout

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:42 PM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Sep 2 2010, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The biggest problem the Kiwis have is getting all their best players out on the pitch at the same time. When that happens, as shown in the 08 WC, they're a match for anyone. The Kiwi boys seem to be more prone to injury - particularly Steve Matai.

As for NZ being favourites - no. Any competition where the Aussies are taking part in, they will be favourites, especially as they're playing it in their own backyard.



Several games are being played in New Zealand.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 02 September 2010 - 07:56 PM.

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#9 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:15 PM

4.....

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#10 The Boy Saint

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:30 PM

QUOTE (bendyas @ Sep 2 2010, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hohaia is ok up the middle on the back of a decent pack. He's ok.

Kenny Dowell isn't a top centre, whether you say he is or not. He just isn't.

Benji is brilliant (at times) for Wests where his unpredictability is a massive part of the game plan. In a new team which needs structure, his effectiveness is significantly less.

Matulino plays for NZ doesn't he? Not Brisbane.

I suggest you watch some more, learn some more, watch some more, learn some more then get back to me.


I agree with this post, NZ are probably better bets then England as its being played on their side of the world, but thats the only divider. SKD is average - period

#11 roughyedspud

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 08:49 PM

i actually like SKD....but his cause has been helped by the fact he's had carney,pearce & anasta putting him through gaps all season

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#12 tonyXIII

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 09:57 PM

QUOTE (bendyas @ Sep 2 2010, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Vatuvei - More errors in him than my GCSEs.


Are you sure about that? I marked your papers! tongue.gif wink.gif

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#13 ParisSurtout

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (roughyedspud @ Sep 2 2010, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i actually like SKD....but his cause has been helped by the fact he's had carney,pearce & anasta putting him through gaps all season



Watch the performances of Kenny-Dowell here. He showed a variety of skills, including (1) a remarkable solo dribble kick and chase through opposition defence to score inches inside the dead ball line, (2) a 90 metre evasive swerve sprint to score himself, and later (3) a brilliant over the top pass at speed while being tackled to put fellow Kiwi Sam Perrett into the clear to help create (along with movement initiator Todd Carney) a candidate for the try of the season.




No wonder the Kiwi Shaun Kenny-Dowell got man of the match from Channel 9.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 03 September 2010 - 12:33 AM.

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#14 TheObserver

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 03:29 AM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Sep 3 2010, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those comments suggest that you weren't watching many NRL games this year.

Where do I start? Hohaia has been in sizzling attacking form.


Agreed. The criticism of Hohaia was ignorant, he isn't a conventional fullback, but adds a second five eighth style presence. Consider his 61m chip-and-chase try in Round 25 vs Broncos (go to 1:10, which was his second try). I rate him highly, he is definitely the starting fullback and a key player in the team.

In ParisSurtOut's video, Kenny-Dowall's tries are at 1:39, 2:12, 4:00. Also a great line break assist by offload at 3:27.

I'd select this 23 man squad:
1. Hohaia, Nightingale
2. Perrett
3. Kenny-Dowall, Mannering
4. Ropati
5. Vatuvei, Duffie
6. Marshall
7. Foran, Heremaia
13. Blair, Warea-Hargreaves
12. Sika Manu, Pritchard
11. Harrison, Matulino
10. Sam Rapira, Nuuasala
9. Luke, Lewis Brown
8. Moi Moi, Asotasi

Former captain Jeremy Smith may struggle to make the team, which gives good indication on the depth of talent in the forwards. The Warriors utility Lewis Brown could be a great addition, very strong, can play a number of positions. The Kiwis are a definite chance of winning the 4N, and they'll beat England. NZ Maori could well beat England with the talent at their disposal.

England has some great talent, but as in previous years, the long season, large workload and poor player management will be detrimental to the squad, and they'll fizzle at the crucial stage. Captain and senior prop Peacock won't be the only loss.

#15 scotthouston2008

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE (roughyedspud @ Sep 2 2010, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i actually like SKD....but his cause has been helped by the fact he's had carney,pearce & anasta putting him through gaps all season


anyone knows you cannot be put through a hole if you cant hit it well enough yourself! and lets be honest, benji is as good at it as they are! i think they will take some stopping this year! if they get the pack firing. nuusala is awesome on his day as is moi moi, blair, luke etc. Vatuvei probably best finisher in the world. hohaia is not only quick but deceptively strong. they have it all and them against the aussies will be a fantastic contest as always!

#16 Hannibal

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 08:31 AM

OK, that's it, call off our participation in the $ Nations.

Everybody get your tissues out for a synchronised orgasm over the NZ RL team.

Jesus, they are not that good, and as always they will be as flaky as hell.

England could lose by 20, or beat NZ by 40. Kenny-Dowall is no better than Michael Shenton.

#17 Futtocks

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 08:38 AM

Regarding some of the above posts:

Vatuvei still goofs every now and then, but his error rate is decreasing year on year, so don't expect to be able to just kick to him and watch him drop it. I like the guy; he plays such an exuberant game, with a smile on his face.

Hohaia's chip-chase try against Brisbane was a good 'un, and he almost duplicated the feat later in the game, but was pulled back by a Broncos player. His speed off the mark also gets him close-range tries that you'd normally expect from a hooker. He is, however, still very questionable under a high bomb - a skill he'll probably never entirely master.

When Issac Luke is on the pitch for Souths or the Kiwis, the team just seems to crank it up a bit more. Very tough for a little guy.

In past years, it always seemed that the Australian NRL clubs were suspiciously keen to make Kiwi players unavailable for internationals for whatever reason, but (this is just my impression) that doesn't seem to be as common any more.

Edited by Futtocks, 03 September 2010 - 08:41 AM.

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#18 scotthouston2008

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Sep 3 2010, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
OK, that's it, call off our participation in the $ Nations.

Everybody get your tissues out for a synchronised orgasm over the NZ RL team.

Jesus, they are not that good, and as always they will be as flaky as hell.

England could lose by 20, or beat NZ by 40. Kenny-Dowall is no better than Michael Shenton.


ABSOLUTE GARBAGE! if shenton went to the NRL he wouldnt even get in most teams never mind score all the tries SKD does.

#19 jim_57

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:25 AM

QUOTE (scotthouston2008 @ Sep 3 2010, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ABSOLUTE GARBAGE! if shenton went to the NRL he wouldnt even get in most teams never mind score all the tries SKD does.


Rubbish! SKD is slightly better than average, Shenton is easily as good, he is also a proven performer in Internationals from the 4N last year. Wouldn't even get in most team? that's laughable Brisbane (Hodges & Inglis), Dragons (Gasnier, Cooper, Scott) and Manly (Matai, Lyon) are the only ones he wouldn't get in the team but then niehter would alot of good players, nor would they want to sign another centre.

#20 jim_57

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 11:40 AM

QUOTE (ParisSurtout @ Sep 3 2010, 05:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those comments suggest that you weren't watching many NRL games this year.

Where do I start? Hohaia has been in sizzling attacking form. Kenny Dowell has beeen smashing his opposition, including St Helen's and NSW golden boy Jamie Lyon. Matulino will wake you up when you actually see him.

Benji can win a game from either 6 or 7. Did you see him last weekend?

I remind you that New Zealand has already won the Tri Nations and the 2008 World Cup 34-20 against Australia, with Hohaia scoring two tries. Then the Kiwis had Mannering and Ropati in the centres, rather than the now brilliantly in form Matai and Kenny-Dowell.


Hohaia has had a few good games but has always been suspect under the high ball in big games. Kenny Dowell can be very sloppy at times and alot of what he does is feed off the brilliance of Pearce and Carney. Matulino is a great young player but I doubt he'll get a starting spot and he'll be lucky to get a game off the bench, Bronson Harrison has to be there, probably the best offloading backrower in the World. Benji is hit and miss, though these days more hit than miss but he still has the ocassional bad game in him. Matai is over-rated IMO, puts the odd shot on but he's always an injury and/or penalty/suspension liability.

Personally I'd go with:
1. J Hoffman
2. Perret
3. Kenny-Dowell
4. Sau/Matai
5. Vatuvei
6. Marshall (Don't play him at 7)
7. Foran
8. Asotasi
9. Luke
10. Rapira
11. Blair
12. Harrison
13. Mannering
14. MoiMoi
15. Hohaia
16. Pritchard
17. Manu/Nuaasala (sp)
18. J Smith (the good one)
19. Matulino
20. Warea-Hargreaves
21. Locke
22. Manu/Nuaasala
23. Matai/Sau
24. Fien/Heremia (need a back-up half)