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Lewis Blocked by Kiwis and Australia?


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#21 The Clan

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 02:53 PM

Under no circumstances is Williamsís eligible for the Kiwis!

He was born in Aus of Tongan decent and neither his parents or grandparents were from NZ.

Ta'ai could be included due to the residency rule but played for Tonga less than 12 months ago and is therefore ineligible.

This is a farce!

Australia and the Kiwis will stitch this up between them meaning that both Williams and Ta'ai will play for NZ while the Ausies get to pick Uate.

The losers Fiji and Tonga and international credibility!

Ireland lost Bridge, Platt, and Harrison etc.. from their world cup squad and for what?

Brough switching from Scotland to England and back to Scotland is a farce.

Hayne switching from Aus to Fiji and back to Aus is a farce.

Carroll switching from Aus to NZ and back to Aus is a farce.

Richard Lewis should be applauded for trying to clamp down on this but as we've always suspected Aus in particular and NZ will block this move so that they can retain access to players from PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa etc etc.

They can strip Melbourne of all their Premierships for rorting the rules and erase their achievements from the record books but in a real act of hypocrisy they flout the International eligibility rules then crow about winning Test series, 4Ns, Ashes series and World cups.. . . Itís a joke!

Edited by The Clan, 14 September 2010 - 02:55 PM.


#22 Big Picture

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:03 PM

QUOTE (The Clan @ Sep 14 2010, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Under no circumstances is Williamsís eligible for the Kiwis!

He was born in Aus of Tongan decent and neither his parents or grandparents were from NZ.

Ta'ai could be included due to the residency rule but played for Tonga less than 12 months ago and is therefore ineligible.

This is a farce!

Australia and the Kiwis will stitch this up between them meaning that both Williams and Ta'ai will play for NZ while the Ausies get to pick Uate.

The losers Fiji and Tonga and international credibility!

Ireland lost Bridge, Platt, and Harrison etc.. from their world cup squad and for what?

Brough switching from Scotland to England and back to Scotland is a farce.

Hayne switching from Aus to Fiji and back to Aus is a farce.

Carroll switching from Aus to NZ and back to Aus is a farce.

Richard Lewis should be applauded for trying to clamp down on this but as we've always suspected Aus in particular and NZ will block this move so that they can retain access to players from PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa etc etc.

They can strip Melbourne of all their Premierships for rorting the rules and erase their achievements from the record books but in a real act of hypocrisy they flout the International eligibility rules then crow about winning Test series, 4Ns, Ashes series and World cups.. . . Itís a joke!

This issue has a minimal effect on PNG but mainly Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Ireland and Scotland. The reality is that almost all the players who've switched grew up in Australia, NZ or England and many were born in those 3 countries. The second-tier countries need to produce more domestic players so they won't be so reliant on heritage ones, but to compete they need those players to get to the pro ranks. That's a tall order, especially for the 3 Pacific island ones since they're so tiny.


#23 Southern Tiger

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Sep 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
erm.... how about all the people from say Wales, Scotland and Ireland who turn to RL at Uni and maybe represent their first club in England so rendering them inelligable for the country they were born and raised in and only eligable for the country they dispise? (same with the south seas islanders who play in NZ for the first time)... not to mention those from say poland who started playing when they arrived in London (i use this as an example as i know of one or two who did) or the south africans who did the same.. etc etc etc etc etc

maybe not the death of RL but it aint going to expand any!


for mine i have no issue with people saying i am austrlian and tongan, i am avialble for the kangaroos but if i am not picked will play for tonga.. that is their right and i dont see this as an issue. but once they have played for one then that is it.. full stop.. end of story


Simple the resources go into the youth game which nails down the colours, major investment in the youth game will sort out the international pro game in a decade, why should the likes of Russia not get the chance to compete with the likes of Scotland on a level playing field, its a farce now and all anyone seems to care about is therir own selfish goals including the RFL. Its gonna take a strtegic change and perhaps an initial weakening of some artificial nations in order to strengthen the game internationally in the long run - but I don't think they're brave enough or co-ordinated enough to do it so we'll be having all the same discussions in 10 yrs from now in any case.
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#24 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:34 PM

QUOTE (Big Picture @ Sep 14 2010, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This issue has a minimal effect on PNG but mainly Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Ireland and Scotland. The reality is that almost all the players who've switched grew up in Australia, NZ or England and many were born in those 3 countries. The second-tier countries need to produce more domestic players so they won't be so reliant on heritage ones, but to compete they need those players to get to the pro ranks.


So they do the hard yards and produce players who are signed up by NRL teams. They flourish in a fully professional environment and lo and behold they are lured away from their country of birth and upbringing to play SoO and having to commit to playing for Australia. Akuila Uate ring any bells? It's catch 22 for the PI nations especially. Don't produce any domestic players and cop hidings or produce them and watch as Australia and NZ cherry pick the best and weakening the team resulting in some more hidings.

Edited by deluded pom?, 14 September 2010 - 04:37 PM.

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#25 Big Picture

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Sep 14 2010, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So they do the hard yards and produce players who are signed up by NRL teams. They flourish in a fully professional environment and lo and behold they are lured away from their country of birth and upbringing to play SoO and having to commit to playing for Australia. Akuila Uate ring any bells? It's catch 22 for the PI nations especially. Don't produce any domestic players and cop hidings or produce them and watch as Australia and NZ cherry pick the best and weakening the team resulting in some more hidings.

Yes Uate rings a bell, I know he was born in Fiji but no bio I can find says where he grew up so it may have been in Australia for all I know. It is catch 22 for the PI nations though, they're too small ever to develop into any kind of force in the game and I can't ever see that changing. They'll never standalone Internationals before big crowds, they're too small and too poor for that.

Edited by Big Picture, 14 September 2010 - 05:38 PM.


#26 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:38 PM

They don't need to be a "force" they just need to be allowed to be the best they can which isn't going to happen while the "Big 3" (just the way they like it) cherry pick their best players.

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#27 Big Picture

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 05:43 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Sep 14 2010, 06:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They don't need to be a "force" they just need to be allowed to be the best they can which isn't going to happen while the "Big 3" (just the way they like it) cherry pick their best players.

Given how small and poor they are, how good would they ever be without heritage players who grew up in Australia or NZ?

#28 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:05 PM

So do you believe it's OK for players to play for whoever they have tenuous links to regardless of how many times the player switches allegiances? As I said BP, the PI nations especially aren't even being allowed to be the best they can be because of the empire building of others who control the rules. Australia don't NEED Uate or Williams, they have plenty of wingers who are as good if not better than those two. I get the feeling it's a move to prop up NSW rather than the Kangaroos. SoO is becoming one sided so they are doing their utmost to get it back on an even keel. The ARL insist on SoO players being eligible for Australia so they break the RLIF eligibility rules to allow players who have played internationally for another country inside the last twelve months to play SoO. The ARL then get another player to add to their already massed ranks whilst depriving another nation of one of their best players. If you think you can try to justify this then we might as well end the discussion here and now.

Edited by deluded pom?, 14 September 2010 - 06:11 PM.

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#29 Big Picture

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:30 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Sep 14 2010, 07:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So do you believe it's OK for players to play for whoever they have tenuous links to regardless of how many times the player switches allegiances? As I said BP, the PI nations especially aren't even being allowed to be the best they can be because of the empire building of others who control the rules. Australia don't NEED Uate or Williams, they have plenty of wingers who are as good if not better than those two. I get the feeling it's a move to prop up NSW rather than the Kangaroos. SoO is becoming one sided so they are doing their utmost to get it back on an even keel. The ARL insist on SoO players being eligible for Australia so they break the RLIF eligibility rules to allow players who have played internationally for another country inside the last twelve months to play SoO. The ARL then get another player to add to their already massed ranks whilst depriving another nation of one of their best players. If you think can try to justofy this then we might as well end the discussion here and now.

No I don't believe that, I don't like seeing players which allegiance any more than you. I'd like to see them bring in a rule that players who've appeared in the World Cup can't ever switch after that. I can well understand your frustration with the ARL, they seem very self-centered in this. That doesn't change the fact that Williams was born there and naturally wants to play for Australia. However much we might like to see players to stick with Fiji, Tonga or Samoa I don't know how they'll ever get them to.

#30 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:40 PM

QUOTE (Big Picture @ Sep 14 2010, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That doesn't change the fact that Williams was born there and naturally wants to play for Australia. However much we might like to see players to stick with Fiji, Tonga or Samoa I don't know how they'll ever get them to.



Williams played for Tonga only last year so why are the ARL even allowed to consider him? Uate only played for Fiji in 2009 and the only reason he's switching is a financial one. Again, why are the ARL even allowed to consider selecting another nation's player?

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#31 Big Picture

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Sep 14 2010, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Williams played for Tonga only last year so why are the ARL even allowed to consider him? Uate only played for Fiji in 2009 and the only reason he's switching is a financial one. Again, why are the ARL even allowed to consider selecting another nation's player?

They shouldn't be able to, there should be clear rules on eligibility and every country should live with them. However if that were the case I doubt either Williams or Uate would have played last year, they'd have waited for a shot at Australia.

#32 deluded pom?

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE (Big Picture @ Sep 14 2010, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They shouldn't be able to, there should be clear rules on eligibility and every country should live with them. However if that were the case I doubt either Williams or Uate would have played last year, they'd have waited for a shot at Australia.



There are already rules in place but Australia are driving a horse and carriage straight through the middle of them.

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#33 Odsal Outlaw

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 07:46 PM

This highlights once again how ###### the elligibility rules are. Like others on this thread I dont particularly care who a player choses if he meets one of the criteria, but once he picks then thats it, no changing. Its stupid.

However, at least we know Lewis is on the same wave length, which is a step further in the right direction that I thought RL was, Hope he doesnt give up on it!!


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#34 nadera78

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:50 PM

Williams and Uate have been included in the Australian Prime Minister's XIII to play against PNG. This is despite the fact that they are inelligible having played for Tonga and Fiji respectively in the last 12 months.

Ta'ai has told the NZRL he want to continue playing for Tonga. I don't know if the NZRL spoke to Ta'ai before picking him in their preliminary squad, if they didn't then they're idiots. They have also been made to look foolish by chasing Tony Williams who is not only inelligible but has come out and said his first choice is Australia, with Tonga second and NZ presumably nowhere.

This whole thing gets worse by the day. Internatonal RL is made to look foolish by this pathetic, ridiculous scramble to grab players, any players, no matter their eligibility status.
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#35 ParisSurtout

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 12:27 AM

People don't seem to realise that "the Australians" are in fact nothing more than the ARL CEO Geoff Carr. The man is a card carrying moron. Everyone who has an IQ above room temperature, who has met Carr, wonders why he was allowed to take on any job more demnading than that of official doorman at the NRL. He is also like the clown who used to run the rugby league in Russia, Yevgenii Klebanov, who wanted all the best players in his club, Lokomotiv, and said "###### the competitiion." So the Russian competition was completely buggered.

But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Come November the Australian rugby league willl be in the hands of a new commission, and Geoff Carr will no longer have a say in anything. All the junkets to the UK and France that he and his boss Colin Love used to enjoy will be over, along with his massive and disgusting wage bill. Hopefully whoever is the representative of the commission at RLIF meetings will iron out all of these anomalies that have been discussed in this thread, and Richard Lewis will have some influence on the way things are done.

Edited by ParisSurtout, 15 September 2010 - 12:29 AM.

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#36 RP London

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:15 AM

QUOTE (Southern Tiger @ Sep 14 2010, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Simple the resources go into the youth game which nails down the colours, major investment in the youth game will sort out the international pro game in a decade, why should the likes of Russia not get the chance to compete with the likes of Scotland on a level playing field, its a farce now and all anyone seems to care about is therir own selfish goals including the RFL. Its gonna take a strtegic change and perhaps an initial weakening of some artificial nations in order to strengthen the game internationally in the long run - but I don't think they're brave enough or co-ordinated enough to do it so we'll be having all the same discussions in 10 yrs from now in any case.

but your rule goes against "nationality".. you are stopping people playing for their nation due to a quirk of fate that they started playing the game somewhere else..

having a succesful nation can help grow the domestic game.



#37 RP London

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 08:17 AM

QUOTE (nadera78 @ Sep 15 2010, 12:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Williams and Uate have been included in the Australian Prime Minister's XIII to play against PNG. This is despite the fact that they are inelligible having played for Tonga and Fiji respectively in the last 12 months.

Ta'ai has told the NZRL he want to continue playing for Tonga. I don't know if the NZRL spoke to Ta'ai before picking him in their preliminary squad, if they didn't then they're idiots. They have also been made to look foolish by chasing Tony Williams who is not only inelligible but has come out and said his first choice is Australia, with Tonga second and NZ presumably nowhere.

This whole thing gets worse by the day. Internatonal RL is made to look foolish by this pathetic, ridiculous scramble to grab players, any players, no matter their eligibility status.

is the prime ministers XIII not just an honoury XIII ala the barbarians in Union rather than being an Australian Rep Side?

#38 roughyedspud

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:03 AM

nope...all players in the PMXIII team are eligible for the up coming 4nations australia team..... apparently..



which is a load of complete and utter #### cos Uate & Williams played for fiji & tonga respectively last year in the pacific cup...which renders them ineligible for selection for another nation under RLIF rules...the ARL and NZRL, who also selected williams, know this.......yet they ride roughshod over the very ******** rules they 'helped' create...


its a disgrace

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#39 RP London

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 10:08 AM

QUOTE (roughyedspud @ Sep 15 2010, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
nope...all players in the PMXIII team are eligible for the up coming 4nations australia team..... apparently..



which is a load of complete and utter #### cos Uate & Williams played for fiji & tonga respectively last year in the pacific cup...which renders them ineligible for selection for another nation under RLIF rules...the ARL and NZRL, who also selected williams, know this.......yet they ride roughshod over the very ******** rules they 'helped' create...


its a disgrace


what i mean is though that the PMXIII is not about eligablitiy.. you dont HAVE to be eligable for aus to play for the PMXIII do you? and if you play it doesnt amke you ineligable for other teams.

What then the papers are saying (i assume it is the papers saying theya re eligable hence your "apparently" remark) is a different matter.. them and truth dont always go together.

#40 roughyedspud

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 10:17 AM

http://leagueunlimit...hp?newsid=20015

QUOTE
2010 ARL Prime Minister's XIII (in alphabetical order)

Player - Club
Matthew Bowen - North Queensland Cowboys
Luke Douglas - Cronulla Sharks
Michael Ennis - Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs
Blake Ferguson - Cronulla Sharks
Matt Gillett - Brisbane Broncos
Jason King - Manly Sea Eagles
Micheal Luck - Warriors
James Maloney - Warriors
Tim Mannah - Parramatta Eels
Jarrod Mullen - Newcastle Knights
Corey Parker - Brisbane Broncos ©
Chris Sandow - South Sydney Rabbitohs
Ben Smith - Parramatta Eels
Kade Snowden - Cronulla Sharks
David Taylor - South Sydney Rabbitohs
Willie Tonga - North Queensland Cowboys
Akuila Uate - Newcastle Knights
Tony Williams - Manly Sea Eagles

Please note: the above players are eligible for selection in the VB Kangaroos squad for the 2010 Four Nations tournament.

The Prime Minister's XIII will gather at Redfern Oval at 10am tomorrow, Wednesday September 15, for medicals and a team briefing before travelling to Cairns on Thursday, September 23, then on to Port Moresby on Friday, September 24.


i put 'apparently' because i was originally under the impression that the PMXII team bare no relavance to international eligibilty..what with it being a invitational team and all that

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