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Member Since 22 Apr 2004
Offline Last Active Today, 08:36 AM

#2998679 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on Yesterday, 09:19 AM

At 84.5% the turnout is the highest in any 'national' vote since universal suffrage was introduced in 1918 (Sky News).


Turns out if you engage people they respond.  Who knew?

#2998609 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on Yesterday, 07:36 AM

I'm scratching my head at some of the coverage I'm seeing.  Yes, the No campaign won, Britain remains as is but many of the varied dignitaries I've seen are just gloating, suggesting Salmond is a loser who should go and that Scotland have had their day in the world's eye.  Salmond's campaign took what should have been an easy victory for retaining the status quo and ran it to the last day, getting all sorts of concessions and pledges, to call that a devastating loss is a bit wide of the mark.


Then there's the promises on extra powers, the number of MPs who are saying they'll vote against makes it fairly clear that there was never really intent to pass on the extra powers to Scotland.  It just looks like a used car salesman rubbing his hands in glee at getting one over on the latest idiot who bought their promises.


The one thing I do see is that the next general election might be interesting and have a far greater turnout as this does seem to have energised the minds of many who haven't voted.


A final point, those 16/17 year olds have really shown that they have a valued part in adult society.  Most of the really intelligent commentary I've seen in the last week or so has come from that group.  You can get a job, join the army, have children and so on but you can't vote in the general election.  I see this as a bit of an impetus for getting that group accepted as within the general electorate, it'd also make the transition for many from child to adult citizen a bit less blunt as they could have specific education on constitutional matters including when there are any elections to use as live case studies.


TBH, a lot of the party political point scoring is coming across as ridiculous already.  One of the strengths of the No campaign - one which they hardly managed to exploit at all but no matter - was that they drew from three parties.  Polling has shown (and if you watch those live trackers during debates you can see this in action) people prefer their politicians to engage with each other not scream at each other.  Nobody looks good crowing.


I was impressed by the manner, if not the substance, of Hague earlier for much that reason.  He practically said he didn't want to hear his own party members sneering and praised the work done by Labour towards the end of the campaign.


More of that and people will listen more to politicians.

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#2998572 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on Yesterday, 06:16 AM

So.  Scotland voted no in spite of 16-17 year olds and no doubt a bunch of English people living in Scotland all being allowed to vote, and the margin of around 10% was fairly decisive, taking the No vote to over half the votes. 


I voted No in this thread poll so the result has gone my way.  Thank goodness the UK still looks like the UK. 


I like the bit where every Tory worth their salt is now tweeting that England needs reform.  Shame it's taken a referendum north of the border to make them realise it but no matter.

#2998153 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 18 September 2014 - 05:28 PM

I've seen nothing today, yet, to convince me that Yes will win.  But No could have made it so much easier by having more like this - and realising this earlier.

#2997752 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 18 September 2014 - 08:11 AM

Credit to this thread to, it has actually helped my thought process.


I really must try harder next time.  Can't have things on here being useful.


Anyway, based on the bookies and the massive chunk of don't knows in the headline generating polls I'm going for this: No 55, Yes 45, turnout 75.


Whatever the result I predict the TV cameras will be able find their first drunk Glaswegian burning a union jack at around 3am.  This will be used to show how scary Scotland has now become.

#2997429 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 17 September 2014 - 04:46 PM

I did read your blog post, but I honestly still don't understand why you came to the conclusion you did. Supporting Scottish independence on the basis it is being offered in this referendum is to do nothing more than put your trust in Alex Salmond. There isn't much else to go on, because major issues such as currency and EU membership rest solely on his assurances.


In a nutshell: Westminster-led UK is totally broken.  Were I Scottish I'd vote to leave and have the opportunity to vote the SNP out at the next election.  As I'm English I see that the issues we have go much, much deeper than whether Scotland is, or is not, in the UK.


As an aside, there's also the chance of an in/out EU referendum in the next parliament.  I'm sure it's just an oversight that people keep forgetting that in 2017 the English could vote to make Scotland leave the EU anyway.

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#2997338 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 17 September 2014 - 02:37 PM

That's the genuinely scary part. Same with the currency. No one knows what will happen. I can't get my head around how anyone can encourage or endorse such a momentous decision on that basis.


I read a very good, if a little one eyed book, about Welsh nationalism by a rabid and occasionally destructive Welsh nationalist once.  It was brilliant for two reasons.  Firstly, because it would rightly regard Wolford as weird "just a funny accented Saxon" and secondly because there was a passage where he took time out from insulting the Anglo-Welsh to explain that he, and others like him, do not consider their actions from the principle of "How will a parliament in Cardiff work?" but rather from the perspective that it is right that they are made to work or not work by the Welsh.


This, for mine, is where so much of the No campaign has gone wrong.  Lecturing the Scottishers about their silly little plans to use the pound or join the EU just did not work.  People are often moved to independence by feelings, notions and senses of injustice, by what feels right.

#2997304 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 17 September 2014 - 01:52 PM

It's also worth remembering that the current leader of the Labour Party supported changing the voting system in that referendum.


And at the time the change was mostly sneered at because it was perceived to only benefit the left.  Whereas if we had it now it would be quite useful for those Torikippers.  I'd find it funny if it weren't so tragic.


I wrote a waffly thing about it the whole Scotland thing here, anyway.  Not exactly genius but it gets most of my confused thoughts about it across.

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#2994975 Gateshead Thunder announce Falcons double header (merged threads)

Posted by gingerjon on 14 September 2014 - 08:11 AM

Doesnt Hemel want to play in a national league....didnt they appose regionalisation of league1?


I'm sure, should they be sharing a division with Gateshead next year, they'll be working out the best time to test out the Pennine Way lights again.

#2992890 "And RU just keeps getting more and more popular"

Posted by gingerjon on 11 September 2014 - 09:33 AM

Shadow's contributions to this forum are outstanding and without equal. 


You disgust me.

#2990777 UKIPpery

Posted by gingerjon on 08 September 2014 - 01:19 PM

I think he fears the Bradford West effect might hit the core Labour voters in his constituency.


I think he thinks Ukip are a bunch of shysters led by an opportunist establishment millionaire with no more desire to help ordinary working Britons than any of the other morally bankrupt political class.

#2990756 "And RU just keeps getting more and more popular"

Posted by gingerjon on 08 September 2014 - 12:52 PM

I know it seems strange, inter national development happening In the countries concerned and not the western suburbs of Sydney but it really is happening:p


I like to mock, and I fully intend to again and again, but if you look at the bottom ranked team (it's Greece) you'll note that they are playing an average of 6 international matches a year and have a schedule that runs until 2016.  They appear to have no league and their office is a hotmail address but they are playing international matches in Greece.  Presumably it is just fifteen blokes in a field but, whatever else can be said, RU does get that bit right.

#2990734 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 08 September 2014 - 12:29 PM

 Prince William's wife is pregnant. Watch the establishment make sure that the child is born in Scotland.


Unless it's going to be born in the next 10 days that's somewhat irrelevant.

#2990068 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 07 September 2014 - 04:17 PM

And then when smaller areas of Scotland get fed up of being ruled by uncaring pen pushers in Edinburgh will they have another breakaway. .then another. ..

We will end up like the days of King Alfred with a bunch of counties all independently ruled.


There has long been a feeling within the northern isles that rule from London or rule from Edinburgh is the same for them.  The numbers who wish for an independent Shetland or Orkney aren't huge but they are there.  I imagine there may be similar feeling on linguistic lines in the Gaelic-speaking Western Isles.


If I were Scottish in Scotland I'd be an enthusiastic yes.  But, as it is, I hope they stay.

#2988814 Scottish Independence Referendum

Posted by gingerjon on 05 September 2014 - 09:16 AM

Yes I wondered if they would till be part of Britain? For instance, could their athletes still compete for GB? Would their citizens still be classed at British? Would everyone's passports have to be changed from nationalty British to Scottish?


Independence means independence.  That's the purpose of the referendum.  They aren't voting to be 'a bit independent'.