Syrian government chemical attacks

[ckn]

Anyone care anymore?  It's in the quiet news day dross you get on the news media, no-one's surprised, no-one cares, no-one will do anything.  Third chemical weapon attack THIS WEEK.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, ckn said:

Anyone care anymore?  It's in the quiet news day dross you get on the news media, no-one's surprised, no-one cares, no-one will do anything.  Third chemical weapon attack THIS WEEK.

It can't be the Syrian government because they've told Putin they don't have any chemical weapons.

[John Drake]

20 minutes ago, ckn said:

Anyone care anymore?  It's in the quiet news day dross you get on the news media, no-one's surprised, no-one cares, no-one will do anything.  Third chemical weapon attack THIS WEEK.

What can we do that would help?

[Farmduck]

Is it about caring? For me it's about the years of BS that's been printed in the media about Syria. I just don't believe anything coming out of there anymore. There are so many sides in that war that there is no good or bad, just people killing each other.

The history of gas attack allegations in Syria is clouded in counterclaims and convenient narratives. Syria's supply of sarin was supposedly destroyed aboard a US Navy vessel in 2013 after intervention by Putin at a time when the White House was planning to use the Ghouta attack as a justification for boots on the ground.

We also know that Turkey allowed precursor chemicals for the production of sarin into Syria for use by one group of combatants - who knows which one? I mean, literally, who can name all the armed combatant groups operating in Syria and give even the most cursory outline of who they are and what they want?

The opposition Syrian coalition said. “These crimes would not have happened again had it not been for the lukewarm response by the international community and its failure to ensure protection for civilians.”

No, these things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't kept fighting a completely unwinnable war where, after about 4 years, you still only control about 2% of Syria.

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

Is it about caring? For me it's about the years of BS that's been printed in the media about Syria. I just don't believe anything coming out of there anymore. There are so many sides in that war that there is no good or bad, just people killing each other.

The history of gas attack allegations in Syria is clouded in counterclaims and convenient narratives. Syria's supply of sarin was supposedly destroyed aboard a US Navy vessel in 2013 after intervention by Putin at a time when the White House was planning to use the Ghouta attack as a justification for boots on the ground.

We also know that Turkey allowed precursor chemicals for the production of sarin into Syria for use by one group of combatants - who knows which one? I mean, literally, who can name all the armed combatant groups operating in Syria and give even the most cursory outline of who they are and what they want?

The opposition Syrian coalition said. “These crimes would not have happened again had it not been for the lukewarm response by the international community and its failure to ensure protection for civilians.”

No, these things wouldn't have happened if you hadn't kept fighting a completely unwinnable war where, after about 4 years, you still only control about 2% of Syria.

 

Careful as you maybe labeled a puppet of the kremlin or an Assad apologist by some on here for not going along with the "western" narrative.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ckn said:

Anyone care anymore?  It's in the quiet news day dross you get on the news media, no-one's surprised, no-one cares, no-one will do anything.  Third chemical weapon attack THIS WEEK.

Maybe they don't. Just like nobody on here cares about the St. Petersburg bombing.....Oh that's right it was only those dastardly Russians who had their bodies torn apart by shrapnel. Move along nothing to see here, serves them right.

[Saint Toppy]

So what is the solution then ?

The West has intervened in that region before and just made things worse, creating even more bitter divides.

Option 1 - put boots on the ground with an all out military assault to end it completely, obliterate Assad and ISIS in one go.

Option 2 - Just walk away and say, hey sort it out yourselves, we're not interested unless ISIS win and take full control, then we'll go in and bomb whats left of the country to pieces.

Option 3 - continue to make a few strongly worded protests in the UN, and sell a few arms to the anti-government forces in the hope they'll eventually win 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

It can't be the Syrian government because they've told Putin they don't have any chemical weapons.

Predicable sarcasm aside the Syrian government had to comply to a UN Security Council resolution which saw the Syrian government give up all of their chemical weapons to be destroyed at sea by the U.S. Navy.

[gingerjon]

30 minutes ago, walter sobchak said:

Predicable sarcasm aside the Syrian government had to comply to a UN Security Council resolution which saw the Syrian government give up all of their chemical weapons to be destroyed at sea by the U.S. Navy.

Somebody has got hold of some and used them on civilians. (To state the obvious.)

[gingerjon]

40 minutes ago, walter sobchak said:

Maybe they don't. Just like nobody on here cares about the St. Petersburg bombing.....Oh that's right it was only those dastardly Russians who had their bodies torn apart by shrapnel. Move along nothing to see here, serves them right.

I didn't post anything on here about St Petersburg because I didn't have anything in particular to say. I still don't know enough about any claims of responsibility etc to make a comment. Sorry about that.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I didn't post anything on here about St Petersburg because I didn't have anything in particular to say. I still don't know enough about any claims of responsibility etc to make a comment. Sorry about that.

It's kind of striking and obvious that the minute a bombing or any other act of terrorism happens in London, Paris, Brussels etc a thread is started on here immediately and rightly so but when it happens in Russia(boo, hiss) nothing. Silence.

[Farmduck]

7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

So what is the solution then ?

The West has intervened in that region before and just made things worse, creating even more bitter divides.

Option 1 - put boots on the ground with an all out military assault to end it completely, obliterate Assad and ISIS in one go.

Option 2 - Just walk away and say, hey sort it out yourselves, we're not interested unless ISIS win and take full control, then we'll go in and bomb whats left of the country to pieces.

Option 3 - continue to make a few strongly worded protests in the UN, and sell a few arms to the anti-government forces in the hope they'll eventually win 

I'll take Option 2 for $500 thanks. This war stopped making sense when the Syrian Government, technically still at war with Israel, started allowing the Israeli Air Force to fly bombing missions deep into Syrian territory to attack Hezbollah, an ally of the Syrian Govt. The only complaint came from Russia, another theoretical ally of Syria, who complained that their bombing missions were getting too close to Russian positions.

So we've got:

- Primarily Lebanese Hezbollah fighting for Assad and against random anti-Assad forces

- Russia supporting Assad against some rebel forces but not against the Kurds

- Turkey supporting some rebel forces but also trying to suppress the Kurds

- Israel bombing Hezbollah but nobody else

- Saudi Arabia supporting any Sunni forces, probably including ISIS

- ISIS fighting Assad in small pockets in the North-East but mostly hanging out in their capital in Raqqa not fighting anyone (in Syria) except the Kurds

- Assad fighting ....?

- Russia bombing anti-Assad forces but not ISIS or Kurds

- USA allegedly only bombing ISIS and, in theory, helping Kurds (in Syria and Iraq but not in Turkey)

- Iran, according to some reports, has more troops in Syria than the Syrian Army - 70,000 at one estimate although that may include Lebanese Shia militia and Hezbollah. They are fighting the anti-Assad forces and ISIS but not the Kurds

- Free Syrian Army. Do they still exist?

- Al Nusra Front? Aren't they just the name used by Saudis to write cheques to ISIS?

- Possibly another 10 smaller armed groups

So tell me which side outsiders should choose.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, walter sobchak said:

It's kind of striking and obvious that the minute a bombing or any other act of terrorism happens in London, Paris, Brussels etc a thread is started on here immediately and rightly so but when it happens in Russia(boo, hiss) nothing. Silence.

You have posting rights too.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

You have posting rights too.

Indeed I do and I've used them to start many a thread about Russia and Syria. I was just waiting to see if anybody else was prepared to start one about the terrorist atrocity in St Petersburg. Obviously not.

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, walter sobchak said:

Indeed I do and I've used them to start many a thread about Russia and Syria. I was just waiting to see if anybody else was prepared to start one about the terrorist atrocity in St Petersburg. Obviously not.

Start one now, then. Find out if people care, rather than making assumptions.

[Bedford Roughyed]

12 minutes ago, walter sobchak said:

It's kind of striking and obvious that the minute a bombing or any other act of terrorism happens in London, Paris, Brussels etc a thread is started on here immediately and rightly so but when it happens in Russia(boo, hiss) nothing. Silence.

Yes why did we post about London?  Disgrace!

[Guest]

Just now, John Drake said:

Start one now, then. Find out if people care, rather than making assumptions.

I think it's pretty obvious that they don't hence the lack of one.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Just now, walter sobchak said:

I think it's pretty obvious that they don't hence the lack of one.

You didn't post in the London thread?  Don't you care?  Silence...

(sarcasm by the way...)

 

[John Drake]

Just now, walter sobchak said:

I think it's pretty obvious that they don't hence the lack of one.

Absolute rubbish.

I was talking to my mum about it last night. You wouldn't know that because I didn't start a thread on here. Y'know what, starting a thread on here is not the be all and end all of everything.

Don't make lazy, crass assumptions.

[Bedford Roughyed]

No threads on the low life expectancy of opposition MP's, journalists and lawyers in Russia either.  We are such bad people.

[Guest]

Just now, John Drake said:

Absolute rubbish.

I was talking to my mum about it last night. You wouldn't know that because I didn't start a thread on here. Y'know what, starting a thread on here is not the be all and end all of everything.

Don't make lazy, crass assumptions.

So what's the criteria then?? Why one for London, Paris and Brussels and not one for St Petersburg??

[Guest]

Just now, Bedford Roughyed said:

No threads on the low life expectancy of opposition MP's, journalists and lawyers in Russia either.  We are such bad people.

Deflections as usual.

[John Drake]

Just now, walter sobchak said:

So what's the criteria then?? Why one for London, Paris and Brussels and not one for St Petersburg??

Probably because they are closer to home so it resonates more. That's just human nature.

It would be inhuman not to care, regardless of where such atrocities take place.

[Bedford Roughyed]

Just now, walter sobchak said:

So what's the criteria then?? Why one for London, Paris and Brussels and not one for St Petersburg??

Aside from an obvious answer of them being in the EU, an hour away on the train, on our direct borders...

The real criteria is simply, someone clicks that button that says 'Start new topic', types some words and it goes from there.  Try it sometime.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Aside from an obvious answer of them being in the EU, an hour away on the train, on our direct borders...

The real criteria is simply, someone clicks that button that says 'Start new topic', types some words and it goes from there.  Try it sometime.

I've clicked that "start a new topic " button many a time as you know fine well and it usually descends in to me being called a Putin lover, trump lover, Assad apologist, anti-American etc.