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Kear sees the light on franchising


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is this thread still going?

the flat earth society have made more posts advocating the return of P&R than they get a crowd at their home games.

No one forces you to read it Dally. If you don't like it, move along.............

Widnes - Cheshire's Original Glamour Club.

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Sadly Acroman, if we all take that attitude we are playing in to the RFL's hands in killing the game off below SL, as all of the clubs outside of SL will go to the wall. Maybe they will anyway, but I fear it will be the begining of the end for the whole game if it happens.

I too disagree with the Toulouse inclusion, I simply cannot see what they are doing for the game over here. The same goes for Catalan for that matter, they bring nothing to the sport, no fans, too many 2nd or 3rd rate Aussies, and they are taking money out of the game on travelling and hotel expenses every week either by them coming here, or by teams from this country playing them in France. It is money that could be better spent on trying to strengthen the game in this country IMO.

That's working well in London isn't it? Then again you didn't really mean this country did you, you meant better spent strengthening the game along the M62, where it's already strong. The game is actually strong in parts of the south of France and people do want to watch it, as is continuously proven by Catalan's home crowds. Give me 7,500 in Perpignan watching SL over 4,000 in Featherstone any day, the Heineken Cup proves what generates the most money and interest in the long run.

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Sadly Acroman, if we all take that attitude we are playing in to the RFL's hands in killing the game off below SL, as all of the clubs outside of SL will go to the wall. Maybe they will anyway, but I fear it will be the begining of the end for the whole game if it happens.

I too disagree with the Toulouse inclusion, I simply cannot see what they are doing for the game over here. The same goes for Catalan for that matter, they bring nothing to the sport, no fans, too many 2nd or 3rd rate Aussies, and they are taking money out of the game on travelling and hotel expenses every week either by them coming here, or by teams from this country playing them in France. It is money that could be better spent on trying to strengthen the game in this country IMO.

The thing is P&H, there are a lot of us who have taken the decision to walk away from it all. It's just not for me any more.

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That's working well in London isn't it? Then again you didn't really mean this country did you, you meant better spent strengthening the game along the M62, where it's already strong. The game is actually strong in parts of the south of France and people do want to watch it, as is continuously proven by Catalan's home crowds. Give me 7,500 in Perpignan watching SL over 4,000 in Featherstone any day, the Heineken Cup proves what generates the most money and interest in the long run.

If the south of France has such a grip on RL why do they need us? Why do Toulouse have to travel to Dewsbury or Batley if that's the case?

7,500 in Perpignan. Not exactly setting the world on fire in comparison to the Heineken cup.

Fev aren't in Superleague to make a fair comparison. Try 2,500 in Salford.

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is this thread still going?

the flat earth society have made more posts advocating the return of P&R than they get a crowd at their home games.

Forgive me for not prescribing to your point of view but I have my own experience of RL. It's a bit like Soweto's experience of the world cup. I assume you are fortunate enough to go along the bypass and miss Soweto altogether.

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As the Chief Executive of the RFL commented, "At a time when other major spectator sports are facing falling attendances, it is most encouraging to see our gates rising significantly once again. This surely demonstrates that however hard the times, people will always turn up to support a game which offers skill, excitement, commitment, self-discipline, and value for money.

However we musn't be complacent. Much remains to be done and it is particularly pleasingto find that many Rugby League clubs are at last paying attention to the vital need to improve spectators' facilities and comfort. The battle for people's time, attention, and money has never been tougher but the latest figures confirm my conviction that our game is marching inexorably forward to the ultimate goal, which will see Rugby League firmly established as a leading national spectator sport during the course of the current decade".

Mmmmmmmmm.

...and that my friend is complete and utter tosh. Like for like attendances are up at the moment by 0.28%-a total of about 400 fans over the twenty rounds to date. 5 SL clubs are showing an increase in attendances but 9 are showing significant decreases. The reason for the 'increase' Crusaders RL when compared with Celtics crowds last year (######, expansion must be working lol). Crusaders up 51%, Wire up 18% nothing else to shout about though. Attendances will show a fall by the end of the season I think

Here we go again .....

 

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That's working well in London isn't it? Then again you didn't really mean this country did you, you meant better spent strengthening the game along the M62, where it's already strong. The game is actually strong in parts of the south of France and people do want to watch it, as is continuously proven by Catalan's home crowds. Give me 7,500 in Perpignan watching SL over 4,000 in Featherstone any day, the Heineken Cup proves what generates the most money and interest in the long run.

Personally I would put the cash to use in either narrowing the gaps between the SL and the CH's divisions, allowing a smooth transition for P&R between all clubs. Or I would make a serious push and try to get the game played and recognised in as many schools as possible. I maybe wrong, but the best chance to expand the game IMO is from a position of strength within the heartlands of the game. Then gradually expand the game once we have our house in order with 20-30 strong self-sustained and well supported clubs.

Edited by Pride & Heritage
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this is embarrassing to say the least and shows to me the current model of franchises and expansion isn't working.

nobody has said anything different. I find it deeply unsatisfactor. But then so were the comparable games in Salford's relegation season when they missed out on survival by one point.

Salford have had a close relationship with promotion and relegation since two divisions were introduced and before SL. I don't think it did them a whole lot of good.

WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015

Keeping it local

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For DemonUK: Someone pointed out earlier in this thread that the quote in question was from the 1980s and was made by David Oxley. I didn't realise that either until the explanation was posted about 200 pages ago.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society

Founder (and, so far, only) member.

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Having been to watch Dewsbury play Toulouse on Saturday, I think that's the end of my association with Championship football, while franchising promotes the following negatives.

So if franchising has done anything, it's made my decision not to renew my season ticket a forgone conclusion. I'm sure I am not the first or the last.

When we had P & R a few years ago Dewsbury were battling for promotion to SL and IIRC managed an average gate of about 1300 around that time. Last year according to the Gillette yearbook they posted an average of 1263 playing in NL1.

Back at the turn of the millenium Batley returned an average attendance for the season of 837, now after Franchising they return an average attendance of 856.

With the deepest of respect Superleague or Franchising a.k.a. is simply not responsible for the supposed "falling off of attendances" and the "giving up" of spectators in the NL's to the extent often portrayed here. People get fed up with RL and don't bother going for a whole myriad of reasons, it's just so easy to pin things on SL or no P & R.

I recall Dewsbury in 1972-4. I was there at their Yorks Cup Final, famous championship win and their epic semi finals and at that time their Chairman Mick Lumb had a go at the town for not turning up in numbers to watch one of the best Dewsbury teams ever.

If there are low attendances in NL and NL1 your first stop is the creation of a divide between the clubs in NL and NL1. The likes of Keighley, Dewsbury and Batley do not belong in any shape or form next to the Skolars, Gatesheads and blackpools. When the NL clubs were split many chairman of the clubs losing out in the split warned that that would decimate their clubs, and they were right. NL1 is a graveyard.

If the attendances are poor in the NL's then look to the size of the towns that are there to provide spectators. Many are small towns in the very first place, and wouldn't provide much more support for soccer than they do for RL and in places like Workington you can P & R your way all the way up to play Manchester United. But P & R doesn't make for good attendances either at Town (who have it) or at the Workington version of the reds.

Clubs like York, Oldham and Swinton have been on hard times for years, but it wasn't SL who ran them down and sold their wonderful grounds.

If the attendances are low then try looking at the competition. I happen to believe that NL is a marvellous place to have a vibrant competition, but the darn thing doesn't start till well into the season because there's a silly manufactured cup to fill out the too short league season. It's a division in which Batley and Dewsbury should meet every year as should Workington and Whitehaven or keighley and Halifax. But they don't.

If franchising is responsible for anything in the NL's it's using NL as a holding competition for Widnes who should have gone in SL last time, and Toulouse who the RFL bottled out putting in, so as you say, they are dumped on you. But removing Franchising isn't the key to making the best of the NL and taking it forward, it's creating a 14 club NL and bringing back the Workingtons, Rochdales, York's and Oldhams from death valley, dumping out the Superleague wannabees into SL, and getting on with doing the best for

our traditional second tier of small clubs.

Yes many of these small clubs can look back on the success Saints and Leeds have now and conclude that they can do it again. My own club won every trophy in 1908 but that was 1908. The conditions then were low mobility for fans and speccies, high levels of local players such you could get a winning sides from your juniors like Hunslet did in 1908 and like Castleford and Featherstone did in the 1980's in living memory. That has gone and it went before SL ever came along, conditions are different nowadays.

Today we have to set up our game according to the way things are now. The best young players will travel to the bigger clubs and have no loyalty anymore - just a career to develop to pay their bills. The fans will gravitate to the bigger clubs with the best players on show. You no longer support Hunslet because you can't afford the bus fare to Headingley...........

As much as we'd like to, we can't recreate the past. But I do think we should be honest and not take the view that Superleague or Franchising for that matter is what has taken the past away from us.............

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