Bradford and Odsal

[ShotgunGold]

We won't fail on the Salary cap breach. The breaches happened for 2005 and 2006 (and only modest and only then because Harris' image rights paid by Publico were inexplicably treated as falling within the cap, whereas e.g Scully and Gillette, and all those clubs using devices HMRC are attacking were not - don't even go there). Had the 2008 licence application process been in 2009, we would have received an A grade. But I already added the point, so why repeat?

We won't fail on junior development. We'll be graded much higher than last time.

We won't fail on solvency. Without a sugar daddy we HAVE to be solvent, and we are.

I already marked us fail on crowd >10k and crowd 40% capacity and "contribution to the competition". And you will find that "contribution to competition" is a bit more vague than that simple "indicative" guideline anyway.

Lobby has a single agenda against Bradford, regarding the stadium. I don't think he is wired up right over it.

And you seem to have an agenda, But you failed to make any points I had not already recognised, and have set hares running with no justification on two other criteria.

I'm sure you had your reasons.

I wasn't marking you down for anything concerning junior development or solvency, I just used them as examples of how if one of them were to fall, then you would be a C grade.

And I was also just saying with regards to crowds and capacity it's crystal clear, 100% certain that you won't be getting any points for them. And the way your looking on the pitch it's quite likely that you won't be finishing 10th. However you do have Wakefield next so basically you could say that the match has one franchise point at stake. And yes getting an average of 8th or above is the only criteria regarding "competitiveness".

"Teams earn one point if they are considered to have made a contribution to the competition - that means averaging a place in the top eight over each of the last three seasons."

My agenda was simply to highlight that you are very likely to be the only club getting a lower rating than you got in 2008, which would be an absolute disaster for the club. I have nothing against Bradford personally, infact I'm sad that the Wolves have replaced you as one of the "big four" as opposed to there being a "big five" with Bradford included. It's just that the club seems to be spiraling downwards both on and off the pitch at an alarming rate, whilst clubs like Salford and Hull KR and Castleford; although they're in a worse position then the Bulls at the moment, within a few years could easily be better placed for Super League than the Bulls will be.

Edited August 19, 2010 by ShotgunGold

[Adeybull]

I wasn't marking you down for anything concerning junior development or solvency, I just used them as examples of how if one of them were to fall, then you would be a C grade.

And I was also just saying with regards to crowds and capacity it's crystal clear, 100% certain that you won't be getting any points for them. And the way your looking on the pitch it's quite likely that you won't be finishing 10th. However you do have Wakefield next so basically you could say that the match has one franchise point at stake. And yes getting an average of 8th or above is the only criteria regarding "competitiveness".

"Teams earn one point if they are considered to have made a contribution to the competition - that means averaging a place in the top eight over each of the last three seasons."

My agenda was simply to highlight that you are very likely to be the only club getting a lower rating than you got in 2008, which would be an absolute disaster for the club. I have nothing against Bradford personally, infact I'm sad that the Wolves have replaced you as one of the "big four" as opposed to there being a "big five" with Bradford included. It's just that the club seems to be spiraling downwards both on and off the pitch at an alarming rate, whilst clubs like Salford and Hull KR and Castleford; although they're in a worse position then the Bulls at the moment, within a few years could easily be better placed for Super League than the Bulls will be.

OK thanks for clarifying. Bulls WILL be rated lower, that's without a doubt. And, sadly, it is primarily down to the fans not turning out (for whatever reason and whoever is at fault...) and nothing to do with e.g. quality of stadium.

I AM sure I read that that "contribution to the game" criterion was not as prescriptive as "top 8"-only, and that measure was indicative but not mandatory. Was sure there was a caveat in front of "averaging..." But like you I also read the top-8" measure too. I'll have to try and track down where I came across it, because it DID seem quite important (I think someone from an expansion club was using it to demonstrate why they may well qualify for a point there, but can't be sure).

Edited August 19, 2010 by Adeybull

[Manx RL]

OK thanks for clarifying. Bulls WILL be rated lower, that's without a doubt. And, sadly, it is primarily down to the fans not turning out (for whatever reason and whoever is at fault...) and nothing to do with e.g. quality of stadium.

I AM sure I read that that "contribution to the game" criterion was not as prescriptive as "top 8"-only, and that measure was indicative but not mandatory. Was sure there was a caveat in front of "averaging..." But like you I also read the top-8" measure too. I'll have to try and track down where I came across it, because it DID seem quite important (I think someone from an expansion club was using it to demonstrate why they may well qualify for a point there, but can't be sure).

It may very well be down to the quality of stadium that fans are not turning out.

[NEIL FOX IS GOD]

Nothing wrong with Odsal, it has more covered seating then Castleford and Wakefield put together.

Odsal main stand

Jungle main stand

Now I could understand if Odsal looked like it did when my dad was following Northern but it doesn't.

i have nothing against Bradford but Odsal is a s@ithole its the 2nd worst ground in SL no prizes for the worst may be the worst in RL

Cant see how The Bulls get away with it when Salford Cas Sts get so much stick

[Konkrete]

We don't have a sugar daddy, we can't sell to a supermarket, haven't copped a million quid by 'merging', haven't got the council to fork out. But we're still trying.

We do have an open stadium for a summer sport and taps in the f****** toilets though.

Lobby your rant is getting on for 4/5 years. It doesn't matter what happens at Odsal, small backwater clubs like Leigh with no support, and no potential support will stay where they are. You had an international this year and the crowd you got was an embarrassment.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Konkrete

[Manx RL]

We don't have a sugar daddy, we can't sell to a supermarket, haven't copped a million quid by 'merging', haven't got the council to fork out. But we're still trying.

We do have an open stadium for a summer sport and taps in the f****** toilets though.

Lobby your rant is getting on for 4/5 years. It doesn't matter what happens at Odsal, small backwater clubs like Leigh with no support, and no potential support will stay where they are. You had an international this year and the crowd you got was an embarrassment.

So who did Leigh play in this international?

[PC]

It may very well be down to the quality of stadium that fans are not turning out.

We got over 24,000 people in that stadium for an SL game once. We used to average over 15,000 in that stadium. I don't think Odsal is the issue.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Is Odsal one of the grounds you class as a 'death trap'?

no

why do you ask?

It's clear what my views on Odsal are.

[Stevo]

Northern should have been kicked out sine die for promoting Websters ale, never mind the state of the ground itself

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Northern should have been kicked out sine die for promoting Websters ale, never mind the state of the ground itself

it was even #### out of hand pumps

[tonyXIII]

We got over 24,000 people in that stadium for an SL game once. We used to average over 15,000 in that stadium. I don't think Odsal is the issue.

Absolutely. Fans don't say to themselves "I'm not going to watch the game today because the ground is ######." They say "I'm not going to watch the game today because the team are ######." Or something similar.

[Lobbygobbler]

We got over 24,000 people in that stadium for an SL game once. We used to average over 15,000 in that stadium. I don't think Odsal is the issue.

We got over 30,000 people in Hilton Park for a game once. We used to average over 15,000 in that stadium. I didn't think Hilton Park was the issue, but actually in the modern day circa 2010+ it was not suitable

You cannot live in the past. Folk want atmosphere, facilities and they don't want to get wet. Bradford need to get a Saints style new ground because in theory they should be able to attract good gates again as a city club.

This will not happen at Odsal in the modern day, due to the accretion effect - big crowds generate bigger crowds due to atmosphere which may be the big factor for new fans. Some new fans just don't want to get wet. Three quaters of Odsal is not covered.

Time to move on

I just want the day when all clubs in the top two tiers are promotable and relegatable on the grounds of on-the-pitch because the other stuff is in place

[West Country Eagle]

If Bradford were at risk of losing their license, they'd just move to Valley Parade.

Whether Lobby likes it or not, the Bulls are here to stay - and Leigh are destined to forever be a 'Small town in Wigan'.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Absolutely. Fans don't say to themselves "I'm not going to watch the game today because the ground is ######."

no but first time vistors, who like o enjoy their leisure time in civilised surroundings might, and probably do.

[Manx RL]

Absolutely. Fans don't say to themselves "I'm not going to watch the game today because the ground is ######." They say "I'm not going to watch the game today because the team are ######." Or something similar.

But away fans will and do just that.

###### ground = fewer away fans

Fewer away fans = less atmosphere

Less atmosphere = fewer fans

fewer fans = reduced income

reduced income = poorer team

poorer team = frustrated fans

frustrated fans = stay away fans

stay away fans = reduced income

reduced income = reduced expectation

reduced expectation = reduced ambition

reduced ambition= Baradford Bulls 2011 and into the future

[JohnM]

I just want the day when all clubs in the top two tiers are promotable and relegatable on the grounds of on-the-pitch because the other stuff is in place

Your day has come, has it not, for that is now the case.

[JohnM]

fewer fans = reduced income.

Any idea what the revenue effect will be of Bulls reduced crowds this season?

[PC]

We got over 30,000 people in Hilton Park for a game once. We used to average over 15,000 in that stadium. I didn't think Hilton Park was the issue, but actually in the modern day circa 2010+ it was not suitable

You cannot live in the past. Folk want atmosphere, facilities and they don't want to get wet. Bradford need to get a Saints style new ground because in theory they should be able to attract good gates again as a city club.

This will not happen at Odsal in the modern day, due to the accretion effect - big crowds generate bigger crowds due to atmosphere which may be the big factor for new fans. Some new fans just don't want to get wet. Three quaters of Odsal is not covered.

Time to move on

I just want the day when all clubs in the top two tiers are promotable and relegatable on the grounds of on-the-pitch because the other stuff is in place

I'm talking in the SL era, are you? I'm not living in the past, and I appreciate that Odsal needs work, or the Bulls need a new stadium. However, Odsal is not as bad people like yourself make out. Hilton Park was a hovel of a stadium, Odsal is too big and too exposed. it has all the facilities needed for a modern stadium, but just doesn't look as good as the JJB and the KC.

As has been said, the Bulls have trying very hard to get a stadium. We've had funding and plans done, but the rug was pulled by a Bradford based company. We've tried the supermarket option, that didn't work. We don't have a sugar daddy and we don't have a council willing to build us a stadium. Are you really saying that the club and it's fans should be relegated from SL just because they have not had the same 'luck', for want of a better word, as Hull FC, Wigan and Wire?

VP is not an option. When we were there last our crowds dropped, despite sustained success on the pitch. Moving to VP will see the club die a slow death, just as doing nothing to Odsal will see the club die a slow death.