Great news for English RL. The Burgess twins

[roughyedspud]

my only gripe about the twins is they have feet for hands sometimes..both need to stop looking for offloads and just drive it up..

[Exiled Wiganer]

It's only me griping, I think.

I can see how this is great news for Souths and the NRL, and they may at some point make a positive contribution to our international team.

Great news for England RL arrived a few days ago with Batemen re-signing for SL club Wigan for 4 years.(, they are Kardashians of rugby, so maybe it's an instagram thing.)

Edited to remove irrelevant churlishness.

[ghost crayfish]

Bateman's a talented player and I hope you're right about him, but there are question marks (related to his size) about how good he'll be in internationals too. 

 

And disappointing as it is that he went to rugby union, I think you're undervaluing Sam Burgess' performances in rugby league. Along with a period of sustained excellence in the NRL, Burgess was easily England's best player in the 2013 World Cup, 2009 Four Nations and in other games here and there along the way.

 

It's sad he left with true "greatness" within his grasp, but he was a champion rugby league player and hopefully will be again. As for the twins...I don't think they're greats by any means, but they are outstanding young front rowers who help to round out a formidable English front row already, while still having a lot of improvement left in them.

[Dunbar]

George Burgess had a hit and miss year (suspension and injury) but he is still on the right trajectory to be the very best prop in the game over the next few years.  Not one of the best but the best.  He is absolutely huge but also possesses genuine footwork and athleticism.  Many people (including myself) thought he was the best player on the pitch when Souths won the Grand Final in 2014 and Sam got the nod for the Clive Churchill medal on a bit of emotion (his last game and the courage of playing the 80 minutes with a serious facial injury) but in cold analysis terms I though George's contribution was greater.

 

Tom is a little behind his brother but he is still a 6'5" 19 stone prop with good athleticism and clearly holding his own in the NRL.

 

They both suffer from being a little suspect with their ball control but that is the only area of weakness in their game and as somebody above has pointed out they are still relatively young for prop forwards.

 

They could well be the backbone of the England pack for years to come and are also key personnel for the World Cup in 2017.

 

I am delighted that they are staying in Rugby league.

[Dunbar]

It's only me griping, I think.

I can see how this is great news for Souths and the NRL, and they may at some point make a positive contribution to our international team.

Great news for England RL arrived a few days ago with Batemen re-signing for SL club Wigan for 4 years. He doesn't have a P R machine.

While we're on greatness, I grew up in an era with real RL greats like Hanley, Gregory and Schofild. Men who put their bodies on the line for our game for year after year. It is ridiculous to put any member of this family in that bracket on the basis of perhaps a dozen decent games. But, then again, they are Kardashians of rugby, so maybe it's an instagram thing.

 

I think that you are doing some very good rugby league players a great disservice here.  George Burgess has played 74 games in the NRL and has been very very good in many of them.

 

To put this into context, Mal Reilly will go down as one of the greatest ever Englishmen to have played in the Australian club competition and he made 89 appearances for Manly in the early 70's.

 

And no, I am not comparing George Burgess to Reilly, I am pointing out that he has played only 15 games less than him in the toughest rugby league competition in the world so the 'a dozen games' is a huge exaggeration.

[Konkrete]

Well, what a depressingly thread given the starting point.

 

Sam Burgess is already an all-time great player.  To say he's only had 12 very good games in his professional career is baffling.  His effect on the Rabbitohs was monumental and watching them all last season showed what a hole he left - not only physically but also in terms of leadership.  His performance in the previous GF playing 80mins with a broken face is legendry as are loads of games played in the forwards in the toughest competition in the world.  So if that's not putting your body on the line like bloody Gary Schofield then I don't know what is.  If he was Australian then he would be playing Origin and for the Kangaroos.

 

Tom and George are both top props.  George is the better of the two, but Tom doesn't get into that side because he's just a brother - he's an excellent player these days.  There was a game last year when Tom played and George didn't (through injury I think), and he was brilliant.

 

And, by the way, how can they possibly prove their international credentials when the national team hasn't played for two years?

 

This is a good news story for England, Rabbitohs and RL, nothing else.

[PCarter]

This is great news. Two outstanding young players who would walk into the 17 at any SL, club, yes even Wigan, have chosen t stay put where they are.

 

How utterly pathetic of EW to blame George Burgess for England losing the 2013 RLWC semi.  You could just as easily say it was Ben Westwood's fault for losing control of the ball in the act of scoring, or Kevin Sinfield for missing the conversion to Kallum Watkins try, or the referee for not giving Jared Wharea Hargreaves at least 10 for two deliberate head shots.

 

It's akin to blaming Sam Burgess for England getting beaten by Wales, a game in which he did not concede one of the many converted penalties Dan Biggar slotted over.

 

Two 23 year old lads who have come through the ranks & made it to the top level.  They have 10 years ahead of them at the top level, that's 10 years when they can be around the England set up and add a significant contribution to the whole ethos.

 

References to past greats are simply harking back to when they were all we had.  If only the Hanley's Schofield etc had back up in numbers like these young blokes coming through, like Hill and Graham and Walmsley etc etc.

 

How old is Chris Hill?  Just to add a bit of context to his name being brought up in relation to the Burgess twins.  When did he debut in SL and for England?

 

We are getting real strength in depth, and what do some do? Whinge and whine about it. FFS

 

Just imagine where we might be if, for example, ex Wiganers like Ford and Farrell had brought their boys through to SL level instead of taking the union coin??  Or doesn't that count EW?

[Exiled Wiganer]

I am swimming against the tide, and might well be proven wrong, but I am not convinced by the counter arguments that this is great news for England RL. I don't see why that should provoke such anger, and I am sorry t have hit a nerve. I couldn't follow much of PC's angst fuelled rage, but my points are simple enough:

- up to date, these players have done great things for South Sydney and the NRL;

- they may go onto become greats, and perform well for England. No one will be happier than me if that is the case;

- I like to watch English players either contributing to the English game in SL, or helping the national side. I did not mean to imply that the one who have the penalty away lost us the game, that was simply the only contribution I can recall either of them making;

- I think one of them is injured so won't be good news for England RL this year;

- now, Graham and Hill, these are players who have done it year by year, and shed blood in SL and for Emgland.

If your starting point is that doing well in the NRL is good for England then of course playing well over there is massive and this is great news.

Edited to remove irrelevant churlishness.

[damp squib]

As to true greatness, I watched Reilly play. He was a true great. The Kardashian boys will need to be brilliant for a long long time and make a major contribution to our national side before they deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.

If people have different parameters for either greatness or what constitutes a good thing for English RL then of course they will view this news differently. For all I know it might be brilliant for young English players to play hundreds of games in the NRL. I just don't see that as reason for the English game doing cartwheels.           

 

But you're the only person in this thread talking about "greatness" or making ludicrous comparison's between the twins and legends of the game or players years older than them. Everyone else is just celebrating that two of the best (current) English props are sticking around. The discussion only changed because of your bizarre vendetta against the Burgess family.

 

Oh and maybe next time you complain about the lack media coverage of RL maybe you should consider why you deride two of our most high profile and media friendly players as "the Kardashian boys".

[Exiled Wiganer]

I quite like the kardashian boys - I might stick with that.

I am not sure positing a counter position counts as a vendetta.

I might have missed the point - i almost certainly have - because if we should be grateful they haven't left the sport completely, then I would have made different points. Probably more strongly.

I still haven't seen an argument that goes to the nub of my point - while this is great news for the NRL and Souths and a good thing for the game generally (though will we see such a thread for every good player re-signing), I must stick by my guns. If you are a follower of SL and the national team and equate those things with good news for England then the fuss seems to be about whether these young players could go on and contribute to the English cause.

I don't watch the NRL, and I can see that if you do this is terrific news. If you only follow England then it's hard to see what the fuss is about.

Again, no one would be happier than me to see them play well for England, and I look forward to seeing them in an England team smashing all comers in 2017

Tbh, I can't see why it should cause universal annoyance to apply a different perspective to this.

[Dunbar]

I quite like the kardashian boys - I might stick with that.

I am not sure positing a counter position counts as a vendetta.

I might have missed the point - i almost certainly have - because if we should be grateful they haven't left the sport completely, then I would have made different points. Probably more strongly.

I still haven't seen an argument that goes to the nub of my point - while this is great news for the NRL and Souths and a good thing for the game generally (though will we see such a thread for every good player re-signing), I must stick by my guns. If you are a follower of SL and the national team and equate those things with good news for England then the fuss seems to be about whether these young players could go on and contribute to the English cause.

I don't watch the NRL, and I can see that if you do this is terrific news. If you only follow England then it's hard to see what the fuss is about.

Again, no one would be happier than me to see them play well for England, and I look forward to seeing them in an England team smashing all comers in 2017

Tbh, I can't see why it should cause universal annoyance to apply a different perspective to this.

I could write a longer reply but I will stick with a couple of key points.

1. Start watching the NRL. As a Rugby League fan you will love it... it is absolutely top class entertainment. This won't stop you enjoying Super League or English RL, it will just be more rugby for you to enjoy. It is also great to watch some of the English lads doing really well over there.

2. Stop calling the Burgess brothers the Kardashians. You probably think it is funny but it is really just making you sound a bit stupid and it is undermining any valid points you may be making.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 - I have no time to do so, sadly, but take your point. I am not sure how I feel about English players playing their careers over there - is that a good thing? As I have spelt out more fully, if you do follow the NRL, and enjoy seeing English players do well, then this is a good thing.

2 - Really? I can survive the opprobrium, but will reflect further. Not having watched the Kardashians or seen the NRL, though, the analogy may be completely off the mark. Given my eloquence and wit, I would have thought anybidy with an ounce of insight would consider my posts misguided rather than stupid.

3 (I know you didn't have a 3) would you consider Bateman's re-signing, as a wonderful young English player in the English competition to be a very good thing?

[Dunbar]

1 - I have no time to do so, sadly, but take your point. I am not sure how I feel about English players playing their careers over there - is that a good thing? As I have spelt out more fully, if you do follow the NRL, and enjoy seeing English players do well, then this is a good thing.

2 - Really? I can survive the opprobrium, but will reflect further. Not having watched the Kardashians or seen the NRL, though, the analogy may be completely off the mark. Given my eloquence and wit, I would have thought anybidy with an ounce of insight would consider my posts misguided rather than stupid.

3 (I know you didn't have a 3) would you consider Bateman's re-signing, as a wonderful young English player in the English competition to be a very good thing?

1. I enjoy watching the English lads play yes. I can't watch 7 games a week (I would be divorced) so I focus on the ones with the English contingent. As far as I am concerned an English RL player in the NRL is far more preferable to the other career change option (i.e. the other Burgess)

2. Fair enough. I don't know what opprobrium means but I get your point (I could of course Google it and pretend I did know but nobody on an Internet forum would do that of course).

3. Absolutely 100% yes.