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Jackson Hastings given the all clear for GB

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That would be a very subjective description, if my scenario of 5 from other shores performed in our team.

I answered your question as best I could Harry.  I agreed that there would be gradients and there would come a point when it didn't feel English.  I am sure that point is different for different people.

I'm not really sure what this small, selective quote is adding.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I answered your question as best I could Harry.  I agreed that there would be gradients and there would come a point when it didn't feel English.  I am sure that point is different for different people.

I'm not really sure what this small, selective quote is adding.

I was just wondering in your case "what number would break the camel's back" so to speak, as you said there would be different tolerant levels to different people, I was against Fa'asavalu, Chase and Heighington when each of those played even in different years and teams, if all 3 who are being put forward are selected then my back will be broken, so to speak.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I was just wondering in your case "what number would break the camel's back" so to speak, as you said there would be different tolerant levels to different people, I was against Fa'asavalu, Chase and Heighington when each of those played even in different years and teams, if all 3 who are being put forward are selected then my back will be broken, so to speak.

Are you asking me how many heritage players would there need to be in the England team for me to not care whether they win or not? Or how many for me to want them to lose?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Harry Stottle

Harry Stottle

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Are you asking me how many heritage players would there need to be in the England team for me to not care whether they win or not? Or how many for me to want them to lose?

Either Dunbar, I said my bit in that I would sooner be a gallent loser employing our own than seemingly being desperate in selecting those - in my opinion, rightly or wrongly - that are not deserving of selection.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Either Dunbar, I said my bit in that I would sooner be a gallent loser employing our own than seemingly being desperate in selecting those - in my opinion, rightly or wrongly - that are not deserving of selection.

Assuming that we are talking about Australian players like Austin and Hastings who were born and raided in Australia and brought through the Australian development system but found an English grandparent for qualification.

If it were two of the 17 I would certainly support the team and hope for a win (with a tiny bit of the shine taken off).

If it were five of the 17 then I would want them to win for the wider benefit of the game here but the victory in my mind would be a false one.

Any more than that and I may get to the point where I would prefer they lost because of the devaluing of the jersey.  I don't know what that number is though but higher than 5 would certainly be getting there.

I don't expect it will come to that though, we have a pretty good core of players now and so I don't expect we will need to 'find' so many Aussies who want to turn out for us.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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Posted
4 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I think we’ve done this to death surely ? It is what is it , and folk have their well expressed views on it . Eventually you’re just going round in circles 

I was asked a question and so I answered it.

I am happy to put the conversation to one side now however.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Rupert Prince

Rupert Prince

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I could give leeway Rupert if they gad been Aussie born but moved over here in their formative years, being intoduced to and having learned and played the game here, but it is the exact opposite they come over here as 20 somethings, and not even spent enough time to get their beds warm here, selecting them just smacks of desperation to me, when it is absolutely not necessary, we have our own capable people.

I'm afraid you are being boorish on the subject.

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Gibbo

Gibbo

Posted
Posted

I am sure if we looked deeper into NRL players with Grandparents from England we could get several better players in our Team.

Doesn't Cherry Evans have an English connection?

I guess the trick is getting players that will never get selected for SOO or the Kangaroos that have Grandparents from the UK.

The players with Grandparents from the UK that are likely to get SOO selection and Test Caps are less likely to "feel English"

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17 stone giant

17 stone giant

Posted
Posted
On 10/10/2019 at 12:37, DavidM said:

He really wasn’t . There was always an element of bias against him , and he was injury prone ,but when you look at his record he won everything . And I have memories of yet another poor tournament for us when he was the stand out player 

Spot on. He was a fantastic player. Unfortunately, a few ignorant souls decided early on that because he wasn't playing in England/EPL (at the time), he must be rubbish. The fact that he was considered good enough by Bayern Munich to play alongside the likes of Michael Ballack, didn't seem to register with them. After all, what do the Germans know about football compared to us English and Welsh!?

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tms

tms

Posted
Posted

if people think it's funny gb/ england picking an aussie you should see what's happening in the other world cup in japan last week a samoan lad played for japan against samoa  he was marked by his cousin  his brother plays for australiia and another cousin plays for new zealand ???

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17 stone giant

17 stone giant

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

The players with Grandparents from the UK that are likely to get SOO selection and Test Caps are less likely to "feel English"

It's funny that, isn't it? It seems to happen across all sports - that sudden urge people have to reconnect with the identity of their parents/grandparents country when they think they won't be good enough to get into the team of the nation they're actually from and would prefer to play for.

I don't actually blame the players/athletes themselves - I would do exactly the same if it meant me having the opportunity to take part in an Olympics/World Cup/international match.

It does devalue to a certain extent the whole point of international sport though. Plus one thing that's often overlooked is that it denies opportunities for genuine born and bred players. I often think how many Irish boys must have grown up dreaming of playing for the Republic of Ireland, only to watch a load of English guys being parachuted into the team. And let's not pretend that RoI was the first choice for ALL of those players.

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Rupert Prince

Rupert Prince

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, POR said:

if people think it's funny gb/ england picking an aussie you should see what's happening in the other world cup in japan last week a samoan lad played for japan against samoa  he was marked by his cousin  his brother plays for australiia and another cousin plays for new zealand ???

Yes.

Bundee Aki was just sent off whilst playing for "Ireland" against Samoa.   He is born in NZ of Samoan descent. He played his rugby in NZ and left to play professional Rugby in Ireland. Just because he had played there for 3 years, just to make his living, he can qualify.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DavidM said:

Just look at the Republic of Ireland footy side from as long as I can remember ! The shock nowadays is some of them are actually Irish 

Haven't we done this one to death David?

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
Just now, DavidM said:

Hastings yes

Oh, I see. We can start all over again if it is a different player.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, DavidM said:

Ah ok , that’s me told I apologise 

Only pulling your leg my friend. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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DavidM

DavidM

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Only pulling your leg my friend. 

I only actually mentioned that as I was listening to Tony  Cascarino and Andy Townsend discussing how ‘ we ‘ are doing ... under our old colleague Mick McCarthy . It just seemed aposite to this somehow  , although I’m not  quite sure how !

PS I’m glad I never descend to such leg pulling and sarcastic jocularity ...?

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Wolford6

Wolford6

Posted
Posted

I'm a bit torn as to which team to support in the Australia & Wales versus England & Australia test series.

I'll probably decide after listening to the press statements from both Australian coaches.

?

:kolobok_wacko:

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Rupert Prince

Rupert Prince

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

I'm a bit torn as to which team to support in the Australia & Wales versus England & Australia test series.

I'll probably decide after listening to the press statements from both Australian coaches.

?

:kolobok_wacko:

In fact double ha ha ... ??

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