Nrl to expand again

[The Great Dane]

5 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Agree with your feelings on the lack of talent or resources. The NRL can continue to develop their own as well as hunt UK SL and global RU talent.

As to not caring about Sydney, your entitled to your opinion, but, I find it strange that being from England, why you would care one way or another about the Sydney clubs vs the expanded clubs. Any explanation? Fortunately, expansion is not exclusive of retaining those great clubs.

Mate if you want to follow a Sydney Suburban comp that's great, go and watch the NSW cup and leave the NRL to become a national competition.

[Allora]

14 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Frankly, you are simply ignorant of the lay of the land in Australia. I'm not knocking you for that by the way, I mean you live on the other side of the world. I do find it funny that you think things would be any different down here to how they are in the ESL, Championship, or League 1.

Despite what some people in Sydney like to think, tribalism exists at almost every level of game right across the country, and you don't break those tribal tendencies easily.

Also I'd like to hammer home the point that the Dolphins aren't just a Q Cup team, they run teams in all sorts of comps in basically every age group, and they've existed for 80 odd years and made a lot of enemies along the way.

There's nothing wrong with another Brisbane team, in fact it's a great idea, if done properly it'll be extremely profitable, but it needs to have a neutral brand otherwise all you are going to do is alienate people that you need to make it as successful as it could be.

As to how you start that club, well there're plenty of different ways the NRL could go about it, and it could be done with or without the Dolphins (or other bids, you do realise that there're other bids in Brisbane right?). For a start if the Dolphins are willing to follow the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders model then there won't be a problem.

You definitely don't need a preexisting club either, I mean do you know how the Broncos (or Storm, Cowboys, Warriors, Knights, Titans, and a bunch of the Sydney clubs) were started lol.

At the end of the day though, if the NRL goes with the Dolphins as is, then they'll be choosing a club that will almost certainly draw an average attendance of about 10-18k fans in Suncorp every week (once the novelty factor wears off), when they could easily create a club that averages 20-25k+, and I think we can both agree that choosing to go with a club that they know will be smaller is a dumb idea, and extremely defeatist.

 

Brisbane needs a second Club.

Who would you have Great Dane?

A Club with the deep pockets and resources to get established and build a Fan base?

 

[The Great Dane]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

1 Why did Union give up on Perth?

Because Super Rugby is struggling, they needed to shed a few teams to survive, and it was decided that the Australian conference needed to drop a team (along with two from SA and now the Sun Wolves as well).

The Western Force were really the third strongest club financially, and probably shouldn't have been dropped, but the ARU wanted a presence in Melbourne because it's a bigger market and they didn't want to get rid of the Brumbies because they are the most successful Australian club in Super Rugby, and it'd not only be weird but bad PR if they got rid of the most successful Australian team.

So really the Western Force being kicked out of Super Rugby had little to do with the club or the Perth market it's self.

1 hour ago, Allora said:

3 Adelaide would struggle to attract sponsors or investors, although the first SOO game this year may sell out its doubtful a Club side would do much.

If the NRL wanted a team in Adealide they could make it happen, and there's no reason that Adelaide couldn't support a team.

The Rams averaged 15,330 in 1997, and that was 20 years ago during the Super League War.

Sure their numbers dropped down to just 7,682 in 1998, but almost every bodies numbers dropped dramatically in 1998, and it's hard to get a fan base excited when they know that they almost certainly are going to be kicked out of the comp before the next season.

So really there's plenty of potential in Adelaide, and it's inevitable that they'll get another club eventually.

1 hour ago, Allora said:

The Nines in Perth a couple of weeks ago said plenty about the appetite for non Rugby League fans to embrace our game.

The way the Nines were set up with it starting on a Friday a 4:00pm locally, and with each team not playing all the others in their pool, they wouldn't have been well attended anywhere. It probably didn't help that V'Landys came out and bagged Perth just before holding a big event in Perth either...

You are also cherry picking the Nines attendance and ignoreing the multipule 20k+ attendances for NRL games held in Perth over the last few years and the sell out SOO.

[Sports Prophet]

19 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Mate if you want to follow a Sydney Suburban comp that's great, go and watch the NSW cup and leave the NRL to become a national competition.

Tell that to the AFL with their expansive yet heavily Melbourne suburban represented competition @The Great Dane. 

23 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Fremantle were a new club not a promoted one, and Port Adelaide were forced to separate their AFL brand from the rest of their club, mainly because it'd be a bit weird to have two teams called the Magpies in the one comp lol.

Correct, Fremantle were a new club, a club using a name heavily hated by local WAFL supporters. Despite such a reviled name, still a very successful club.

As to Port Adelaide, a reviled club that kept its Port Adelaide name, that has still been a successful example of expansion despite such widespread hate for that club at SAFL level. 

Both examples that fly in the face of your opinions that keeping the Dolphins name would be a disaster.

[The Great Dane]

19 minutes ago, Allora said:

Brisbane needs a second Club.

Who would you have Great Dane?

A Club with the deep pockets and resources to get established and build a Fan base?

 

The first thing I'd do is announce the expansion process so I could get a good look at all the potential options in Brisbane, because maybe the perfect bid is waiting in the shadows.

Then if none of them suited I'd go to the expansion clubs and say to them 'if you move to the South of Brisbane and create a club that represents everything south of the river, create a neutral brand, and show you have x amount of start up funds, have x amount of sponsorship money lined up, etc, etc, then I'll give you the license'. Whichever bid best meets those standards can have the license.

If none of them can meet those standards then I'd create the team in house myself at the NRL, then sell it on to the highest bidder once it's established a few years later (hopefully for a profit, but I'd take a loss now if it was necessary, in the long run the club would easily pay for it's self), similar to what the AFL is trying to do with GWS and the Suns, except it'd be a lot cheaper and easier because there's actually demand for another NRL team in Brisbane.

If that isn't feasible for whatever reason, and really the NRL could afford it if they wanted too, so it should be feasible, then as a very last resort I'd just not expand to Brisbane in this round of expansion and go with two of the other bids (Perth and another one, hopefully from NZ or Adelaide) and wait until a better option presents it's self in Brisbane. Better to wait and get it right then rush it through and stuff it up...

What would you do?

[The Great Dane]

19 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Tell that to the AFL with their expansive yet heavily Melbourne suburban represented competition @The Great Dane. 

Whom have spent the last twenty years trying to get more of their Melbourne clubs to relocate out of Melbourne...

20 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Correct, Fremantle were a new club, a club using a name heavily hated by local WAFL supporters. Despite such a reviled name, still a very successful club.

The controversy around the Dockers name was mainly copyright challenges from Levi's, not people hating it in particular.

And even people didn't like the brand, it's not really example of what I'm talking about.

26 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

As to Port Adelaide, a reviled club that kept its Port Adelaide name, that has still been a successful example of expansion despite such widespread hate for that club at SAFL level. 

Both examples that fly in the face of your opinions that keeping the Dolphins name would be a disaster.

Port doesn't go against what I've been saying at all, in fact they are an example of exactly what I'm arguing that the Dolphins should be forced to do if they want to join the NRL!

I even used the example of the Raiders (my club) and how people could stomach the Queanbeyan Blues owning the license if they changed the brand for the NSWRL team and showed a commitment to create a club for everyone instead of just an extension of their own club. 

I also brought up the example of the Tuggeranong/Canberra Vikings, I literally suggested that you should look them up. A RU club in Canberra (that coincidentally used to be my club as well) that tried to do exactly what the Dolphins are doing and it's blown up in their faces twice now, because everybody that isn't a Vikings fan won't be caught dead in supporting the Vikings.

[Sports Prophet]

I wasn’t talking about the “Dockers” name @The Great Dane, I was talking about the “Fremantle” name. 

Port Adelaide is known to everyone to be linked to Port Adelaide Magpies. They share the same Port Adelaide name. You said that retaining the Dolphins name would tarnish their potential and alienate supporters of other clubs.

North/ern Dolphins would be fine.

[The Great Dane]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

I wasn’t talking about the “Dockers” name @The Great Dane, I was talking about the “Fremantle” name.

Even if that is true, it's still different to what I was talking about.

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Port Adelaide is known to everyone to be linked to Port Adelaide Magpies. They share the same Port Adelaide name. You said that retaining the Dolphins name would tarnish their potential and alienate supporters of other clubs.

Mmm hmm and the Raiders are known by everybody to be linked to the Queanbeyan Blues, doesn't change the fact that I (and everybody else in Canberra) wouldn't be a supporting the club right now if they had kept the Queanbeyan Blues brand.

Also the Power are only still Port Adelaide because Adelaide was taken, in fact basically every geographical name in Adelaide that is worth something is taken by somebody.

I'd also bet you anything that they have had problems with people refusing to support them because they are the Magpies, the Raiders sure had their problems with the "Queanbeyan Raiders" types for a long while. Wasn't anywhere near as bad as it would have been if they'd stayed the Blues though.

5 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

North/ern Dolphins would be fine.

If they do that it'll bite them and the league as a whole on the ######.

If somebody was making a new competition above the NRL and it was suggested that the Dragons get a license for a southern Sydney team called the Southern Dragons that would represent Cronulla as well (IIRC you are a Cronulla fan right?), you'd refuse to follow them.

Expecting any less from anybody else is a huge mistake... Especially when it's no hair off the Dolphins balls to just come up with a neutral brand for the NRL team.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Mate if you want to follow a Sydney Suburban comp that's great, go and watch the NSW cup and leave the NRL to become a national competition.

Acutely conscious of knowing far less than other posters on this, but what`s wrong with people following the NSW cup or the QLD cup? Why all the eggs in the NRL basket? Surely it`s intrinsically good for the game to have a successful organisation like Redcliffe dolphins playing already in a good quality comp. Why risk it by becoming an NRL franchise?

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Also the Power are only still Port Adelaide because Adelaide was taken, in fact basically every geographical name in Adelaide that is worth something is taken by somebody.

———

If somebody was making a new competition above the NRL and it was suggested that the Dragons get a license for a southern Sydney team called the Southern Dragons that would represent Cronulla as well (IIRC you are a Cronulla fan right?), you'd refuse to follow them.

Port are called Port, because that had been the club’s name for 127 years before entering the AFL in 1997. Don’t ramble to try and pretend anything else.

———-

strange... you have been hell bent on promoting the rationalisation of Sydney clubs for the benefit of expansion (ludicrous as a suggestion that is), when you know full well from your most recent comment that this would alienate the entire fan base of that existing club. 

I used to support Balmain, but I refuse to support a team that plays home games out of Campbeltown. So yep, I probably would not support a new Southern Dragons club if “someone” made a new competition (Super League ahem) above the NRL. I would probably be lost to the sport because I would just stick to watching the Bombers.

Your comparison is flawed however, Cronulla Sharks are an existing club with well over 100,000 fans of various fanaticism. The purpose of adding the Dolphins would be to enter a team with a solid foundation that in time as generations change would support anyway. Not saying going with a Dolphins bid is the right choice, just demonstrating I know the theory and benefit associated with choosing the club.

[The Great Dane]

9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Acutely conscious of knowing far less than other posters on this, but what`s wrong with people following the NSW cup or the QLD cup? Why all the eggs in the NRL basket? Surely it`s intrinsically good for the game to have a successful organisation like Redcliffe dolphins playing already in a good quality comp. Why risk it by becoming an NRL franchise?

The only thing "wrong" with the NSW cup or Q cup is that they don't get very good coverage, so compared to the NRL it's hard to follow those competitions. 

Aside from that, they're good competitions and having teams like the Dolphins in them is a great thing.

If the NRL, NSWRL, and QRL, could get them good broadcasting deals where all their games are broadcast on TV like the NRL then I have no doubt that in time some of the clubs in them could grow to be as big as NRL clubs.  

[Allora]

13 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The first thing I'd do is announce the expansion process so I could get a good look at all the potential options in Brisbane, because maybe the perfect bid is waiting in the shadows.

Then if none of them suited I'd go to the expansion clubs and say to them 'if you move to the South of Brisbane and create a club that represents everything south of the river, create a neutral brand, and show you have x amount of start up funds, have x amount of sponsorship money lined up, etc, etc, then I'll give you the license'. Whichever bid best meets those standards can have the license.

If none of them can meet those standards then I'd create the team in house myself at the NRL, then sell it on to the highest bidder once it's established a few years later (hopefully for a profit, but I'd take a loss now if it was necessary, in the long run the club would easily pay for it's self), similar to what the AFL is trying to do with GWS and the Suns, except it'd be a lot cheaper and easier because there's actually demand for another NRL team in Brisbane.

If that isn't feasible for whatever reason, and really the NRL could afford it if they wanted too, so it should be feasible, then as a very last resort I'd just not expand to Brisbane in this round of expansion and go with two of the other bids (Perth and another one, hopefully from NZ or Adelaide) and wait until a better option presents it's self in Brisbane. Better to wait and get it right then rush it through and stuff it up...

What would you do?

Give it to the Dolphins.

[The Great Dane]

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

strange... you have been hell bent on promoting the rationalisation of Sydney clubs for the benefit of expansion (ludicrous as a suggestion that is), when you know full well from your most recent comment that this would alienate the entire fan base of that existing club. 

I used to support Balmain, but I refuse to support a team that plays home games out of Campbeltown. So yep, I probably would not support a new Southern Dragons club if “someone” made a new competition (Super League ahem) above the NRL. I would probably be lost to the sport because I would just stick to watching the Bombers.

That's not the sort of rationalisation that I support.

The only form of rationalisation that I support is relegation.

The NSW cup and/or Q cup aren't in a position where they could support this yet, but the NRL should be looking at setting them up so they could support smaller Sydney clubs (and potentially other clubs in the future) that can't compete in the NRL being dropped down into them. That way the fans still have their club exactly as it was the season before, the clubs are in an environment where they are sustainable and competitive, the NRL frees up money, resources, and space in the NRL, and the NSW/QLD cup get well supported clubs. It's the best outcome for everybody.

I do find it funny that you think that if a club folds, or whatever, that it's impossible to retain their fans in numbers when both you and I are examples of people that have "lost clubs" and moved on.

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Your comparison is flawed however, Cronulla Sharks are an existing club with well over 100,000 fans of various fanaticism. The purpose of adding the Dolphins would be to enter a team with a solid foundation that in time as generations change would support anyway. Not saying going with a Dolphins bid is the right choice, just demonstrating I know the theory and benefit associated with choosing the club.

Firstly, stop deluding yourself, Cronulla don't have well over 100,000 fans. None of the NRL clubs do unless you count even the most ludicrously loose definition of fan, i.e. people that when asked say they support a club but have never watched a game, bought any merchandise, and couldn't name one player. 

Secondly, because the vast majority of fans from Sydney are not old enough to have experienced a time before their club existed in the competition, it's hard to create a good analogy of what is happening in Brisbane that people from Sydney will truly understand.

So I admit that it is not a perfect analogy, but, it's close enough to give you an idea of how the majority of people in Brisbane that aren't Dolphins fans or from Redcliffe will respond to the Dolphins getting a license. Because collectively their are probably close to a 100,000 of them with various levels of fanaticism that are just as committed to their clubs as you are to Cronulla (still not clear if you are actually a Cronulla fan though lol).

[The Great Dane]

6 minutes ago, Allora said:

Give it to the Dolphins.

Why?

They have nothing going for them that other bids don't have, and they have plenty going against them.

If I was forced to pick one of the current bids I'd probably go with Western Corridor/Ipswich, or even the Bombers, before I went with the Dolphins.

[Allora]

2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Why?

They have nothing going for them that other bids don't have, and they have plenty going against them.

If I was forced to pick one of the current bids I'd probably go with Western Corridor/Ipswich, or even the Bombers, before I went with the Dolphins.

Because they would be my preferance.

[MrPosh]

20 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Agree with your feelings on the lack of talent or resources. The NRL can continue to develop their own as well as hunt UK SL and global RU talent.

As to not caring about Sydney, your entitled to your opinion, but, I find it strange that being from England, why you would care one way or another about the Sydney clubs vs the expanded clubs. Any explanation? Fortunately, expansion is not exclusive of retaining those great clubs.

I think there's a bit of the traditional RL anti-power thing going on, here. 

The Sydney clubs represent a system that is fairly parochial, backed up by a sycophantic and obsessive media. I get that Australia is a big place and media can be self-sustaining in a local area - but to us over here, you're all a long way away and so we see the game as national, rather than based around two localities with a couple of outliers. 

Because of all this, it's easy to see Sydney as dominant and we all love an underdog to beat that. 

I know the reality is different. Brisbane and Melbourne are part of the corporate machine and some of the Sydney clubs traditional, worthy, working class areas - but from a distance, it's easy to buy into a narrative of Sydney = establishment and let's support the others against that. 

[DoubleD]

Sadly, there's more chance currently of the NRL putting a new club in Sydney than Perth

[Sports Prophet]

@The Great Dane, I would consider a fan of Cronulla to be anyone from a corporate sponsor, all the way to a person that goes to the pub to watch the odd game and wish the Sharks win.

[The Great Dane]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

@The Great Dane, I would consider a fan of Cronulla to be anyone from a corporate sponsor, all the way to a person that goes to the pub to watch the odd game and wish the Sharks win.

Using that logic I'm a fan of Cronulla, because there's definitely the odd game where I hope the Sharks win (more than a few a season). In other words your standards are so broad that basically anybody could be considered a fan.

My standard for a fan is anybody that takes a keen interest in the club, watches their games as regularly as possible, and invests a bit of their hard earned into the club on a regular basis.

Not all "fans" are equal and not all of their thoughts and concerns should be considered.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

On 05/03/2020 at 01:17, The Great Dane said:

The only thing "wrong" with the NSW cup or Q cup is that they don't get very good coverage, so compared to the NRL it's hard to follow those competitions. 

Aside from that, they're good competitions and having teams like the Dolphins in them is a great thing.

If the NRL, NSWRL, and QRL, could get them good broadcasting deals where all their games are broadcast on TV like the NRL then I have no doubt that in time some of the clubs in them could grow to be as big as NRL clubs.  

I manage to follow both these comps reasonably well from the other side of the world. One way more Queenslanders could follow the Q Cup would be to actually go to the games of their nearest club. It`s a big place but most bases are covered, think Toowoomba is the only area of significant population without a club in the Q cup. Someone attending a Tigers game at Langlands Park is as much a contributor to the capacity of Australian RL as someone watching the prospective Bombers at Suncorp. People in Rockhampton will never have a local NRL franchise, so why not make the most of having the Capras on their doorstep? The Q cup could also, with the Hunters, claim to be an expansionist comp. They get good crowds in Port Moresby, very good when they were premiers in 2018.

[The Great Dane]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I manage to follow both these comps reasonably well from the other side of the world. One way more Queenslanders could follow the Q Cup would be to actually go to the games of their nearest club. It`s a big place but most bases are covered, think Toowoomba is the only area of significant population without a club in the Q cup. Someone attending a Tigers game at Langlands Park is as much a contributor to the capacity of Australian RL as someone watching the prospective Bombers at Suncorp. People in Rockhampton will never have a local NRL franchise, so why not make the most of having the Capras on their doorstep? The Q cup could also, with the Hunters, claim to be an expansionist comp. They get good crowds in Port Moresby, very good when they were premiers in 2018.

I don't necessarily disagree with everything you are saying, but people want to be able to watch every game their team plays in, unless you can literally attend all your clubs games in person it's very hard to do that with both the Q cup and NSW cup.

In the modern world it's a big ask to get people through the gate in numbers for a competition that get's little to no coverage and doesn't have the budget to market it's self effectively. Sure some clubs like Newtown have had some success, but for the most part it's an uphill battle, especially when there's so many other sports leagues that are much easier to watch and follow.

On top of that, if you live outside of Brisbane you could live hours from your closest Q cup side (even ones that represent your town/region in theory), that is even more true of Sydney and the NSW cup, where every team this season except the Knights and Warriors are from Sydney. So it's not like most people can just roll up to a game every fortnight with ease. For most people, the sort of people that would be most inclined to support a Q cup team, it's actually way harder to support their "local" Q cup team than an NRL team from the other side of the country. 

Getting all of both the Q cup and NSW cup on TV (or at least broadcast somewhere easily accessible) would go a long way to changing that situation, and get a lot more people interested in following a side. The other thing that would help in the NSW cup's case would be to get as many of the NRL clubs out of the competition and replace them with them with as many smaller independent clubs (on feeder deals obviously) as possible.

BTW, Toowoomba isn't the only area with a significant population without a Q cup club, and the only places in NSW with NSW cup sides are Sydney and Newcastle, so yeah there's heaps of room to grow.

[unapologetic pedant]

36 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

I don't necessarily disagree with everything you are saying, but people want to be able to watch every game their team plays in, unless you can literally attend all your clubs games in person it's very hard to do that with both the Q cup and NSW cup.

In the modern world it's a big ask to get people through the gate in numbers for a competition that get's little to no coverage and doesn't have the budget to market it's self effectively. Sure some clubs like Newtown have had some success, but for the most part it's an uphill battle, especially when there's so many other sports leagues that are much easier to watch and follow.

On top of that, if you live outside of Brisbane you could live hours from your closest Q cup side (even ones that represent your town/region in theory), that is even more true of Sydney and the NSW cup, where every team this season except the Knights and Warriors are from Sydney. So it's not like most people can just roll up to a game every fortnight with ease. For most people, the sort of people that would be most inclined to support a Q cup team, it's actually way harder to support their "local" Q cup team than an NRL team from the other side of the country. 

Getting all of both the Q cup and NSW cup on TV (or at least broadcast somewhere easily accessible) would go a long way to changing that situation, and get a lot more people interested in following a side. The other thing that would help in the NSW cup's case would be to get as many of the NRL clubs out of the competition and replace them with them with as many smaller independent clubs (on feeder deals obviously) as possible.

BTW, Toowoomba isn't the only area with a significant population without a Q cup club, and the only places in NSW with NSW cup sides are Sydney and Newcastle, so yeah there's heaps of room to grow.

What sort of crowds or media attention do Aussie Rules state competitions get in WA , SA, VIC?

When looking to grow the game outside the NRL, in addition to NSW cup and Q cup, investment in the women`s competitions could yield more new fans than a second Brisbane NRL franchise on a much smaller outlay. The expansion of the women`s SEQ comp to be statewide this year looks a great move. There are grounds for optimism, if people think long-term, that the continued growth in female RL will deliver a bigger fanbase for the game overall.

 

[The Great Dane]

14 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

What sort of crowds or media attention do Aussie Rules state competitions get in WA , SA, VIC?

It's not my forte, so I honestly don't know

If I had to guess I'd bet that they are better run and get better coverage, but only because generally speaking the AFL just does things better than the NRL. Could be totally wrong though.

17 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

When looking to grow the game outside the NRL, in addition to NSW cup and Q cup, investment in the women`s competitions could yield more new fans than a second Brisbane NRL franchise on a much smaller outlay. The expansion of the women`s SEQ comp to be statewide this year looks a great move. There are grounds for optimism, if people think long-term, that the continued growth in female RL will deliver a bigger fanbase for the game overall.

LOL, no.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking women's RL or the NRLW (though there is a lot to knock about the way the NRLW has been handled, but that is on the NRL and not a comment on the standard of the competition it's self), but it'll be a long time before women's competitions, at any level, are as big or valuable as the men's ones.

The growth in female participation and juniors now that there are competitions for women and girls over about the age of 12-13 is great to see. For the longest time it was impossible to get the numbers to make them sustainable.

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

It's not my forte, so I honestly don't know

If I had to guess I'd bet that they are better run and get better coverage, but only because generally speaking the AFL just does things better than the NRL. Could be totally wrong though.

LOL, no.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking women's RL or the NRLW (though there is a lot to knock about the way the NRLW has been handled, but that is on the NRL and not a comment on the standard of the competition it's self), but it'll be a long time before women's competitions, at any level, are as big or valuable as the men's ones.

The growth in female participation and juniors now that there are competitions for women and girls over about the age of 12-13 is great to see. For the longest time it was impossible to get the numbers to make them sustainable.

I have no expectation of women`s competitions ever being as big as the men`s, it`s more that they could reach parts of one half of the population who previously hadn`t paid any attention. This has happened with women`s Soccer. Ten years ago male Soccer fans were saying "LOL, no". As to the standard, it depends how you see a game. I first saw a women`s RL game 3 years back, and it took a while to adjust. Now I frequently see plays and patterns that you don`t get in the men`s game. Greater variety can widen the appeal of RL to the benefit of everyone.

[Sports Prophet]

22 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Using that logic I'm a fan of Cronulla, because there's definitely the odd game where I hope the Sharks win (more than a few a season). In other words your standards are so broad that basically anybody could be considered a fan.

My standard for a fan is anybody that takes a keen interest in the club, watches their games as regularly as possible, and invests a bit of their hard earned into the club on a regular basis.

Not all "fans" are equal and not all of their thoughts and concerns should be considered.

 

Well my definition of a fan clearly differs. 

I’ll start w the 70 odd thousand that paid $$$ to watch the GF in 2016. Never before in the history of the sport has there been a more one sided crowd for a club match.

Then we could talk about the extra 50k minimum that we’re watching in pubs, clubs and house parties, who all support Cronulla more than any other club.

This is just one Sydney club’s example. It is up to the NRL and the clubs to convert more of those fleeting fans into the personally invested.

It was only around 1990, when AFL crowds grew exponentially. The AFL clubs were smart and made sure that fixtures were events to be at, rather than games to watch on telly.

Its not beyond Sydney RL clubs to consistently get 25k+ to home games